Advertisement:
A2Hosting

Author Topic: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!  (Read 1888120 times)

Offline Trekkie101

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 8,153
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Astra!
    • https://www.facebook.com/DLRPRoundup on Facebook
    • @dlrproundup on Twitter
    • DLRP Roundup
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 06:12:16 AM »
Nice! :)
I used to have a wiki for SMF modification developers, didn't renew the domain since I wasn't really keeping it alive and it kept getting spammed :( . I might have to go through the backups (I keep weekly backups of all my sites) and put some of the old articles up on this new wiki :)


Please do Daniel, the more content the better :D

Offline Dragooon

  • Beta Tester
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 5,607
  • Gender: Male
  • Dragon in Disguise
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 09:02:24 AM »
Just a question, are you guys using the existing bridge between SMF and MediaWiki or have you guys developed one for you own or have you extended the one currently released?

Can I sp4mz0rs the wikiz?

Offline Trekkie101

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 8,153
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Astra!
    • https://www.facebook.com/DLRPRoundup on Facebook
    • @dlrproundup on Twitter
    • DLRP Roundup
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2010, 09:29:01 AM »
Just a question, are you guys using the existing bridge between SMF and MediaWiki or have you guys developed one for you own or have you extended the one currently released?

Can I sp4mz0rs the wikiz?


Couple of modifications to the existing one, iirc.

Offline Norv

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,314
  • Blue Wolf
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2010, 09:34:58 AM »
Afaik we're using SMF Auth, modified. We might release it in the future.
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done… until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.
File a security report | Developers' Blog | Bug Tracker

Also known as Norv on D* | Norv N. on G+ | Norv on Github

Offline Kindred

  • Project Manager
  • SMF Master
  • *
  • Posts: 37,608
  • Gender: Male
  • Red Sox WIN!
    • wagner999 on Facebook
    • www.linkedin.com/in/wdwagner/ on LinkedIn
    • @Kindred_999 on Twitter
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 09:38:42 AM »
correction: We *DO* plan to release it in the future, after we clean up some of the SM.org specific code (and release 2.0 final)
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support forums.  Thank you.

Offline Joshua Dickerson

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 12,663
  • Gender: Male
    • joshuaadickerson on LinkedIn
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 03:22:44 PM »
Yes we use a pretty heavily modified extension which we have Evey intention of releasing after cleaning it up some. Also we plan on releasing the curve skin. Feel free to help with the wiki.
Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

Did you know you can help develop SMF? See us on Github.

How have you bettered the world today?

Offline Forum Labs

  • Semi-Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2010, 03:31:32 PM »
This is sooo nice :)
Premium Support & Services for SMF

Offline codenaught

  • Customizer
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 14,655
  • Gender: Male
  • Formerly Known As akabugeyes
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2010, 03:50:39 PM »
Nice work guys.

It's been almost a year since I stepped down as Doc Coordinator, and I can say that using a wiki was a heavily discussed hot ticket item, in part due to its drastic change over what we currently had.

Can I ask, why did you choice MediaWiki? I seem to remember it being a big problem to decide which one to use simply because it was difficult to find one that was appropriate for our needs (especially language translations).

Are there things like language filters on it? I would hope so, because there is never a time where any swear words would be needed in the documentation.

I remember when we converted from our old wiki to using the SMF software because it was believed that SMF could be extensive enough to handle something like a documentation base. Do you feel like this is something that will now be forgotten, or should we someday see again an SMF install that can be modded to act as a wiki? Or maybe if/when an SM Core is released?

How is version control being dealt with? This was the single biggest problem I had to handle. I don't see anything separating 1.1 from 2.0. Am I missing something or is it being worked on?
Dev Consultant
Former SMF Doc Coordinator

Offline Trekkie101

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 8,153
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Astra!
    • https://www.facebook.com/DLRPRoundup on Facebook
    • @dlrproundup on Twitter
    • DLRP Roundup
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2010, 04:00:02 PM »
Quote
Can I ask, why did you choice MediaWiki? I seem to remember it being a big problem to decide which one to use simply because it was difficult to find one that was appropriate for our needs (especially language translations).


It fit rather well, had a bridge already made, and had a rather good translation plugin.


Quote
[/size]Are there things like language filters on it? I would hope so, because there is never a time where any swear words would be needed in the documentation.
I don't think so.


Quote
[/size]I remember when we converted from our old wiki to using the SMF software because it was believed that SMF could be extensive enough to handle something like a documentation base. Do you feel like this is something that will now be forgotten, or should we someday see again an SMF install that can be modded to act as a wiki? Or maybe if/when an SM Core is released?
I'll answer that slightly different with things I've found help us a lot by using a wiki:
- Templates save a LOT more time.
- Revision control is a lot easier, changes are easier to see aswell, not needing manual highlighting.
- Allows users and team members to create new resources a lot easier.


- http://smfwiki.net/ - Niko is making a pretty awesome mod. The bridge we're using just now, including the curve wrapper, is going to be released.


Quote
[/size]How is version control being dealt with? This was the single biggest problem I had to handle. I don't see anything separating 1.1 from 2.0. Am I missing something or is it being worked on?
Still a bit of an issue. Although we can do the [ver=1.1] thing still using templates and some weirdo namespace magic. Another option is to also have the pages include the version number, for example sm.org/wiki/1.1/Main Page can be done. But it is still the same sorta mess we had before. Right now the OM is serving 1.1 docs, and 2.0 are on the wiki.

Offline Antechinus

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 22,349
  • Master of BBC Abuse
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2010, 04:03:16 PM »
Are there things like language filters on it? I would hope so, because there is never a time where any swear words would be needed in the documentation.

Hey, I've done lots of swearing when digging through SMF codebase. I'd also remind you of the infamous Australian translation of the installation instructions. ;)
President for life - Righteous League of GitHub Haterz

 "Seems brilliantly designed to match the intuitions of demented ferrets"

Offline -=[Vyorel]=-

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 676
  • Gender: Male
  • SMF Wiki Writer
    • DSKVyorel on Facebook
    • xeromzone on LinkedIn
    • @XeromZoneCom on Twitter
    • Xerom Zone Community
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2010, 05:05:18 PM »
Very nice. ;)

Sugestion:
Add a new member group who have permission to write on Wiki SMF,  and the normal members not, not to be problems with guests, hackeri, etc. ;)
My mods for SMF - [5].

Offline Kindred

  • Project Manager
  • SMF Master
  • *
  • Posts: 37,608
  • Gender: Male
  • Red Sox WIN!
    • wagner999 on Facebook
    • www.linkedin.com/in/wdwagner/ on LinkedIn
    • @Kindred_999 on Twitter
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2010, 05:22:45 PM »
why?  We want everyone to be able to contribute....    we'll just back out any problem edits.

Unless people abuse it, we're not going to bother with a separate usergroup.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support forums.  Thank you.

Offline Joshua Dickerson

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 12,663
  • Gender: Male
    • joshuaadickerson on LinkedIn
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2010, 06:08:38 PM »
akabugeyes, Mediawiki is the most supported wiki software with loads of extensions and support. Obviously you know of the other solutions as you and I discussed this before, but I really felt that going with something that was "easy" to setup and can easily be extended was the way to go. Whereas other options served well for documentation of a single product, this one can also serve other needs. For instance, when I was on the Customization Team, I announced that there will be an option for customization authors to create a wiki page for their customizations. That has been planned in this. With the current url structure, it will be easy for us to add other products, extensions, tools, and anything else we care to document. There was already a bridge which Sleepy worked and continues to work on which made this entire thing possible. Also, the wiki formatting is what most avid wiki users know.

As has been said before, if people create or modify pages with changes that we don't agree with, we'll revert them. If people continue to go along that route, they'll be banned. At the start, they'll not be able to make changes to the wiki and probably have some kind of ban from the forum. If you are a problem on one part of the site, we don't want you to continue that behavior elsewhere. I do like your suggestion of some kind of filter though. I will research that and you may see it added in the future.

A wiki, not just Mediawiki was chosen over SMF because it is the right tool for the job. We could use a wrench to hammer nails, but a hammer would work better for the job. I've selected "user driven education" as our motto for a reason. We, the team, shouldn't be doing all of the work. Especially when there are plenty of willing and capable people to help. I'd like for us to lead the masses and moderate where needed, but we aren't capable of doing it all. I have a vision of having a near autonomous (from the team) website where we here to develop the system which runs the website and ensure that things run smoothly. Other than that, the software can handle most of what happens around here. Especially when it comes to support (support and documentation to me are one in the same).

SMF 1.1 will be supported by the old Online Manual. I plan to convert it to something more static (searching will still be available) and at some point far down the line it will probably be dropped altogether. Future versions of SMF can be done with our current URL structure. Although, I have some other possibilities - looking at how MySQL does their documentation. You'll see on some pages that 1.1 documentation has found its way to the wiki. There are headings separating SMF 1.1 and SMF 2.0.

Jack, I appreciate anything you have to say about the wiki. It is still in "beta" and Trekkie, Snow, and I are still working to make it stable. So, if you have any suggestions as to how we can do things better, tell us. If you want to help, you know how to contact me ;)

-=[Vyorel]=-, as Kindred said, we want you to help. We don't want to hinder you unless you prove to be a nuisance. In which case, you won't have access to the wiki. As it stands now, you are in a special membergroup once you hit 10 posts anyway.
Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

Did you know you can help develop SMF? See us on Github.

How have you bettered the world today?

Offline codenaught

  • Customizer
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 14,655
  • Gender: Male
  • Formerly Known As akabugeyes
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2010, 05:09:42 PM »
Quote
Obviously you know of the other solutions as you and I discussed this before, but I really felt that going with something that was "easy" to setup and can easily be extended was the way to go
At one point I may have but I have a very short term memory so I couldn't probably even name more than a few wiki's from memory. ;) I've always been a fan of the premise of a wiki. I remember when I was newcomer to the doc team I used to follow my list of edits as they went on. I guess it was just something to make me feel good about myself. Right there and in front was essentially a log of all the contributions I had made to the wiki.

Quote
For instance, when I was on the Customization Team, I announced that there will be an option for customization authors to create a wiki page for their customizations. That has been planned in this. With the current url structure, it will be easy for us to add other products, extensions, tools, and anything else we care to document
Ah, I remember planning quite extensively something just like this back in the day. I really wanted to allow for mods to have their own wiki page. I can't remember all the details of how I planned to arrange it, but I knew it wouldn't be something too easy to do using SMF. Well I guess you could create a topic for each mod, but indeed I don't think it would work as well as using a Wiki.

Quote
As has been said before, if people create or modify pages with changes that we don't agree with, we'll revert them. If people continue to go along that route, they'll be banned. At the start, they'll not be able to make changes to the wiki and probably have some kind of ban from the forum. If you are a problem on one part of the site, we don't want you to continue that behavior elsewhere. I do like your suggestion of some kind of filter though. I will research that and you may see it added in the future.
Oh I get very much the idea upon reverting abusive changes. I was just merely thinking that certain vandalism could be harmful to the community and easily avoidable by default. Stuff like posting pornographic images however might be harder to prevent unless we moderate all image uploads perhaps. I don't know how wikipedia does it, maybe they just rely on speed of light reverts.

Quote
A wiki, not just Mediawiki was chosen over SMF because it is the right tool for the job. We could use a wrench to hammer nails, but a hammer would work better for the job. I've selected "user driven education" as our motto for a reason. We, the team, shouldn't be doing all of the work. Especially when there are plenty of willing and capable people to help. I'd like for us to lead the masses and moderate where needed, but we aren't capable of doing it all. I have a vision of having a near autonomous (from the team) website where we here to develop the system which runs the website and ensure that things run smoothly. Other than that, the software can handle most of what happens around here. Especially when it comes to support (support and documentation to me are one in the same).
I understand the philosophy of a wiki and I don't disagree with it. I do think there are some drawbacks however, such as the quality of documentation is much harder to keep at the exceptional level it is expected to be at when maintained by the Doc Team.

Also it is much harder to coordinate big-scale restructuring type changes when the wiki is open for everyone. Before we could just work on a copy install of SMF, tell the team members to not edit the docs in the live environment, and migrate the changes over. Here, it is harder to just close off the live environment if we are planning to make some heavy changes to the way the docs are formatted or organized.

Granted it is probably much less work to reformat the organization on a wiki, with the main changes just being to the Main Page, so that is good.

Quote
SMF 1.1 will be supported by the old Online Manual. I plan to convert it to something more static (searching will still be available) and at some point far down the line it will probably be dropped altogether. Future versions of SMF can be done with our current URL structure. Although, I have some other possibilities - looking at how MySQL does their documentation. You'll see on some pages that 1.1 documentation has found its way to the wiki. There are headings separating SMF 1.1 and SMF 2.0.
There is usually going to be a time where it is hard to determine what to do without a clear versioning support included. Think of SMF 2.0 now. It just may be the more commonly installed version of SMF today, but people who choose to stay on the stable product should have the right to complete and quality documentation. I think at some point a clear line has to be drawn. It can't be decided to have some bits of version Y mixed with version Z documentation. People should be able to go to one place, expect one thing, and get what they expect. If I go to the wiki, I want to know if I am looking at 1.1 documentation or 2.0 documentation, or both at the same time, or I have the choice between which one.

All I am trying to say is you need to decide on what exactly the wiki is. And that is up to you, I am not trying to get in your way. Will the wiki be generic or not? If it is suppose to be for SMF 2.0, it should be stated to make it obvious.

Also, I haven't checked to see if you guys are doing so, but make sure that that now that the documentation is open, that essentially all documentation discussion is open as well. Make use of the Talk pages! Doc Team is now more the moderators of the documentation and is no more a contributor necessarily than any other contributor. If the majority of the community advocates something, be sure not to get in the way in letting the community wreck improve the wiki. ;)


Dev Consultant
Former SMF Doc Coordinator

Offline Joshua Dickerson

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 12,663
  • Gender: Male
    • joshuaadickerson on LinkedIn
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2010, 05:37:32 PM »
I would prefer if people didn't use the wiki for discussions. It is a terrible platform for it IMO. I'd much rather people that wish to help out that much become members of the Doc Helpers group.

We can do large scale changes by using sandboxes, templates, and letting it be known what our intentions are. The hardest part about setting this wiki up was figuring out a structure that would work. Hopefully it won't need to change all that much. One of the problems with my position is that I don't use documentation but I still have to develop it. So, I don't know when it is good and when it isn't. Right now, I don't really think it is all that good. It is "good enough". I want people to rave about the documentation of SMF.

I realize I'm not being that good in forward-thinking, but I have thought about versioning for SMF. I don't want 1.1 documentation on the wiki because a) it is too much to fix that documentation and the 2.0 documentation at the same time. I can setup a 1.1 namespace if you'd like to take care of it, but I'd rather not push any of the Documentation Team to moderating and maintaining it. I've already thought about future versions and have several things in mind, but nothing solid right now. I'd like to keep focused so we can gain some ground.
Need help? See the wiki. Want to help SMF? See the wiki!

Did you know you can help develop SMF? See us on Github.

How have you bettered the world today?

Offline Illori

  • Doc Coordinator
  • SMF Master
  • *
  • Posts: 33,899
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2010, 07:08:05 PM »
how would one become a member of the Doc Helpers group if they were interested?

Offline (F.L.A.M.E.R)

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 10,614
  • Gender: Male
  • I am a ninja!
    • adishpatel on Facebook
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2010, 07:44:24 PM »
Contact groundup or Trekkie. They'll look into your request.
Need paid assistance for your forum? CLICK ME!
Email: flamer@simplemachines.org (Stop sending me love proposals! I don't do Internet dating :P)

Offline Norv

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,314
  • Blue Wolf
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
Doc Helpers is a freely joinable group, actually. You can find it in your profile and join it, if you wish.
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done… until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.
File a security report | Developers' Blog | Bug Tracker

Also known as Norv on D* | Norv N. on G+ | Norv on Github

Offline (F.L.A.M.E.R)

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 10,614
  • Gender: Male
  • I am a ninja!
    • adishpatel on Facebook
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2010, 07:49:49 PM »
It wasnt there when I joined the support helpers group IIRC. I should pay more attention. :P
Need paid assistance for your forum? CLICK ME!
Email: flamer@simplemachines.org (Stop sending me love proposals! I don't do Internet dating :P)

Offline Norv

  • SMF Friend
  • SMF Super Hero
  • *
  • Posts: 18,314
  • Blue Wolf
Re: Now Announcing the Simple Machines Wiki (beta)!
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2010, 07:53:56 PM »
You're right actually, it wasn't at the time. It is now.
(you're old... and addicted. :D)
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done… until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.
File a security report | Developers' Blog | Bug Tracker

Also known as Norv on D* | Norv N. on G+ | Norv on Github