Topic: Recent Travails of SMF Team and Friends

[Arantor]

Finally, a non trolling post.

And exactly right, and why I refuse to come back now.

[codenaught]

As one of the actual owners of Simple Machines (legally), I feel that I owe the community my opinion.

I want to thank you for your post. It's helpful for the community, most of whom don't have the inside information, to see the thoughts and opinions of respected people who are on the inside and do have that information. As one of the only 3 legal owners of SMF, your words hold weight.

I am wondering if you'd be willing to clarify some confusion and disagreement on one point that involves you:

1) Did you ask Amy for the financial records (which you are legally entitled to, being an LLC partner, and she's legally required to produce on-request of one of the other LLC partners)?

2) Did she honor your request?

You're right... the "he said she said" stuff is crazy. Antechinus says you did, Amy says you didn't. I am hoping that bit by bit we can settle the ambiguity of some of these issues so certain questions of what is "true" and what is really happened can be put to rest, allow us to move forward. You're in a unique position to settle this particular issue once and for all, for the benefit of the community.

You needn't provide more than "yes" or "no" if you don't have the energy to elaborate, but some clarification to this issue even with just Y/N would be extremely helpful.

Thanks.

I didn't want to get into the business of individual pointing out the lies that she made in her post, but since this one directly involves me and a community member has now asked me directly for an answer:

Yes, I did ask. And yes she did refuse. It is in a private area. As Antechinus has stated, he copied screenshots of said posts. It still becomes an issue of who to believe. If some team members want to come out and state that they see such posts, they are welcome to.

I am not sure why Amy thinks she could just deny it ever happened and chalk it off another false rumor. As of right now, the entire team and friends could be linked to said posts in question and know right away she is not being entirely truthful. I am sure she will recall making a response in the same topic that I made a request to open the books stating that she was going to, but then decided after recent posts made that she no longer wanted to. I really doubt she just forgot about it as this topic keeps coming up again and again.

[Rowdy]

Politics, and with it all this infighting, is trivia compared to philosophy. It is clear that there is a philosophical breach somewhere in the project but its nature is not entirely clear yet from this thread. It appears ownership of the project is disputed, if not legally than philosophically. But the philosophical dispute underlying the ownership fight hasn't been discussed unless its the license issues mentioned which doesn't seem to be the case. What is the heart of the issue I must assume is in what direction to take the project in the future though the two or more visions have not been laid out. Disrespect for the individual does seem pervasive.

[sremick]

Yes, I did ask. And yes she did refuse.

Thank you. That's good enough for me.

Now, I know we have a number of people here educated and trained on legal matters (some even specifically with laws involved an LLC) and qualified to elaborate on the implications of this. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on the issue.

I would think one enters into an LLC for the legal protections (both outward and inward) it provides. It would be peculiar to invest in a first aid kit, and then let your child bleed to death because no one wants to make use of the bandages.

[Douglas]

Now, I know we have a number of people here educated and trained on legal matters (some even specifically with laws involved an LLC) and qualified to elaborate on the implications of this. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on the issue.

This is precisely what a handful of us are trying to get clarification on.  I cannot elaborate beyond this, however, I am one of those working with the lawyers to get the legal issues addressed.

Ultimately, we want to see this project survive.  We want to move forward with the healing process and the complete reorganization of the entire structure and infrastructure, so that SMF can move onto bigger and better things.

There are several of us that will not rejoin the team, no matter what the final result is (I am one of those that will not rejoin).  So, for us, there is nothing to gain or lose.  It's our passion and love of the project that keeps us hopeful that we can all contribute to SMF moving forward.

Signed,
Douglas Hazard
SMF Member ID #6
Former Support Specialist (YaBB SE and SMF)
Former Marketing Team Co-Leader
Owner of a million+ post forum
Tech Co-Admin of several million+ post forums
All of which will be switching off of SMF in the future.

[tfs]

I wish that they'd do the following:

1) Add an amendment to the license allowing a one-time split.
2) Fork the product into two lines.
3) Everyone go with the group that they want.

[Akyhne]

Amy isn't doing anything wrong as a leader. She's protecting the team and the software, which should also be one of her tasks. In other words, I understand her acts.
The big problem, however, is that she's also the cause to many team members abandonning the SMF project, and some of us were even forced out.
The friends really care about the project, and to most of them, Amy is the problem. No matter who's right or wrong or whatever happened in the past, Amy needs to go. It will probably bring quite a few friends back, as well as some will join again. But the more we wait and the more harsh posts are made, the more the spirit and friendship between friends and current team members will die.

[sremick]

This is precisely what a handful of us are trying to get clarification on.  I cannot elaborate beyond this, however, I am one of those working with the lawyers to get the legal issues addressed.

Ok, thank you. Good to hear.

There are several of us that will not rejoin the team, no matter what the final result is (I am one of those that will not rejoin).

That's unfortunate. So there's no possible scenario, no arrangement of who's in what management position, no changing of the legal business entity or license that would inspire you to rejoin?

[ForumGuy789]

Owner of a million+ post forum
Tech Co-Admin of several million+ post forums
All of which will be switching off of SMF in the future.

Hey Doug, what forum are you moving your huge forum into? PM me if you need to. I want to know how you're going to successfully port such a large forum including avatars, attachments, and internal forum links. Yes, I've done research, and yes it appears nearly impossible to do it smoothly. vbulletin does not have a good import solution at all.

[Douglas]

sremick and ForumGuy, I've been mandated by the owner of two of the larger forums to switch to whichever forum platform I am going to use on my own site.  As much as I would like to be part of the SMF rebuilding, I feel that my talents and knowledge would be better served by supporting the new software package that us "outsiders" are looking at launching and deploying.  It's still in the early planning stages for all of us, however, because of our passion for the SMF community and core project itself, those plans are on a holding pattern until we can ensure that the core SMF project itself is capable of standing on its own and can grow in the direction it needs to.

ForumGuy, you're right, it's a very huge challenge converting huge forums, especially when one of those forums is over 4 million posts.  It's not improbable, and I've got a plethora of experience on converting several huge forums between various software foundations.

This is the main reason why I am not rushing into making any rash decisions with the conversions.  If it is going to be done, it'll be done at a pace that I afford it to ensure that nothing gets lost.

[MultiformeIngegno]

Ultimately, we want to see this project survive.

This is the good spirit!!

[Sabre™]

A little off topic..
I never thought I'd see the day when even Motoko-chan doesn't have a badge ... 
Ok, you may all continue

[talktoanil]

If one person quits and problem is solved then he/she should quit rather than other quitting because of him/her. Its an common sense which is not common these days.

[Sabre™]

If you were running a factory, and other workers left because of you, would you leave too, or just flip them the bird and replace them?
I only mention this because of your cliche common sense line.
Things aren't always that easy mate

[talktoanil]

If you were running a factory, and other workers left because of you, would you leave too, or just flip them the bird and replace them?
I only mention this because of your cliche common sense line.
Things aren't always that easy mate

then how long will it stretch ? From what i see , either she has to quit or core development team will quit (actually started) which makes only loss to SMF and so to its image.

[(Ha)²]

If you were running a factory, and other workers left because of you, would you leave too, or just flip them the bird and replace them?
I only mention this because of your cliche common sense line.
Things aren't always that easy mate

Since I'm a newcomer and wasn't even active until November, I can't really comment on everything; but, that was a good analogy.

[Sabre™]

then how long will it stretch ? From what i see , either she has to quit or core development team will quit (actually started) which makes only loss to SMF and so to its image.

[one liner] You cant please everybody [/close]
Ranting and raving isn't goin to help any, it will only assist in negative reaction(s), and make the 'stubborn minded' even more so.
Everybody can have their say, no matter how uneducated about the actual facts they are, but those of us waiting for actual 'updates' find ourselves sifting through all the garbage first. Including My post
Unfortunately, that's the way it goes, but I'm semi sure that I've already read you mentioning the same thing a few times already.
It seems that those that have tried to calm the hysteria, have only wasted their time.
Keep doing as you do, and I will keep sifting through, this is only a plea to lift the needle off the record, because it is clearly scratched

*forgive me if I sound arrogant/rude etc.. that is not my intention, it is just the way I speak lol

[Asude]

If you were running a factory, and other workers left because of you, would you leave too, or just flip them the bird and replace them?
I only mention this because of your cliche common sense line.
Things aren't always that easy mate

Ah, so she is the owner of the factory and rest is poor workers? Cool.

[Sabre™]

That's a pure example of why I refrain from commenting, it shows how easily something simple can be twisted.
But it is understandable aswell, some need to be fed, and there are many here in which english is not their 1st spoken language.
It is actually my third ...  so I understand things can be
[one liner] lost in translation [/close]

/end of spam

[CountryLady]

snip
 Get some more managing partners added, work on finding the right company structure for the project to survive, and leave the ultimatums at the door.

The problems didn't occur overnight and they won't be solved instantly or by any one action.

I agree with your assessment.

Do you see any way, however, that Amy can remain in her current position, or anywhere on the team for that matter, and not provoke defensive tactics against another coup d'etat?
snip

If I may comment...

The Leader of the Leaders position must have a job description in which the overriding objective is to maintain a positive atmosphere and motivate the entire community/project. The Leader must know what is expected of them and there must be a way to measure the Leader's accomplishments in that area. Everyone who works for the good of everyone else needs the benefit of this structure. Whoever created the SMF Community would do well to read and follow the principles in "TOP PERFORMANCE" by Zig Ziggler. To have expectations without knowing specifically what they are and how to measure them is unfair to ALL.

I do understand this is not a Fortune 500 Corporation, but that shouldn't prevent SMF from being managed so that EVERY person who is contributing in any official manner clearly understands what success is, what is expected of them, and periodic reviews that measure/evaluate how well they are carrying out those expectations, and at what point adjustments must be made. Without this, there can only be turmoil in the organization and that is patently unfair to EVERYONE.

To Everyone, as long as YOU make this situation a personal attack, whether "deserved/earned" or not, the success of SMF is held hostage. SOME here believe SMF is Forum Software, but it is FAR more that just that. SMF is and was created as a community/project, and we ALL must insure that the atmosphere at SMF is conducive to us all feeling good about our contributions. To do otherwise works to prevent SMF from being the success that was envisioned.

Each of us Members is expected to do certain things in a certain way in order to be able to interact in this community successfully. These certain things are clearly stated, and strongly enforced. To wit: Post in the proper board. Give details such as to version, problem to be solved. Read the Manual first. Use Search to try to find your answers before asking for help. Pay $ to become a Charter Member. Cuss filters are included to help each SMF Community to set their own guidelines for their members.... See? This is fair and helps to make each user's Support Experience a good and successful one. Everyone WANTS to interact in a respectful, successful environment. If the Leaders of the Leaders environment is not positive, certainly no one else's experience can be anything more.

There is a mediation attempt in progress agreed upon by both ineffective factions. For anyone to continue attacking ANYONE at this point is counter-productive, no - actually it is destructive to any possibility of success on any level. Understand that losing a majority of the core contributors due to ANY reason is NOT ACCEPTABLE in any form. Perhaps the Mediator would be wise to limit input at this time, with the understanding of what the time RANGE is to have resolution.

Consider using the following structure to provide fairness and cooperation...
First, stop the damage being done currently. Know what the goals are and communicate them to the entire SMF Team, allow NO input of a negative or undermining nature. Give 2 deadlines. One to be the BASIC goal giving a date and time for having the organization operating in a way that the work is being done by ALL, and a foundation is in place to refine the structure of Leadership to prevent internal turmoil while a healthier organization within the Leadership is being built. The second is an OUTSTANDING goal giving a date and time for the refined structure (reorganization) to be operational and working well. In other words, first aim for complete resolution and enactment of the adjustments in place by a short date and time (72 hours, a week?), then second, if by that basic goal date that is not possible, clearly set a final date and time for extremely positive movement to have been agreed upon by all and a strategy identified and in progress that would insure a complete resolution and the process of putting the needed adjustments in place must be set (another 72 hours, another week???). At which time if the proposed reorganization has not be achieved, the Team of Three originators must be expected to step up and take over the organization in an advisory capacity to INSURE that the SMF Community/Project becomes a healthy organization.

Remember: while some jobs are more critical to a project than others, everyone involved in the Leadership TEAM is vitally important. SMF is NOT 'software', it is a Community/Project.

Now please give a gmail.com email address JUST for the Members to send you suggestions for the good of SMF, then LOCK this thread and prevent the topic from being discussed during this short time of negotiations.

Good Luck Kindred.