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Author Topic: The Forks are here!  (Read 35917 times)

Offline Angelina Belle

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The Forks are here!
« on: August 16, 2011, 12:10:19 PM »
And it is exciting to see. Everbody knew that the switch to the BSD license made them likely. It should be invigorating to have more developers testing and sharing their own improvements to SMF. With two forks under development, one of which is already available for download, it is now possible to compare and contrast SMF forks. And the SMF team hopes that Forks Discussion becomes a popular board -- we can all learn a lot from each other.

Nightwish has already  made available his unnamed open-source fork, along with all his plans and comments along the way.

Nao and Arantor, two talented developers well-known at simplemachines.org, are developing another fork, called Wedge. They've made their entire changelog available (and it is an interesting read). As soon as they release the code, we'll see which license they've chosen. So far, they have not expressed interest in using a BSD-like license.

Jeff Lewis recently commented (in SMF Forks Coming! ) that these forks are a step toward the SMF community working "toward being the open project it [was] always envisioned to be". And that's a great vision for SMF.

----
edit: fixed typo.
 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 02:01:34 PM by AngelinaBelle »
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Offline Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 12:34:11 PM »
This truly is an open doorway to new, unexplored realms for SMF - and I'm personally hoping, waiting to see this board get busy ;)
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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 01:36:41 PM »
A good step towards friendly interaction between any possible forks. :)

+1 to the team for setting up this.

Offline Jeff Lewis

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 01:43:26 PM »
What I really want to see here is am embracing of each other. Sure there has been blood and slights on both sides/all sides but I am really hoping people can maintain civility here and lets leave all the mud flinging outside  :P
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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 01:55:15 PM »
Jeff,

Our goal, as expressed in the rules of this board, is to welcome and embrace the concept of (Open Source) forks and those who make them.

We had a long journey to release SMF under the BSD license. We want to encourage people to  continue with that open license/concept as well as encouraging those who may choose to fork. They bring new, interested blood into the discussions as well as introducing potential for new ideas, new approaches and new coding.
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Offline (Ha)²

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 02:24:31 PM »
This is a great move, and one that encourages building the best free forum software possible, in my opinion. The end user probably isn't going to care what name is on the software; they are going to care about what the software does.

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 03:10:46 PM »
Great step forward, really. This is the reason why I joined the team a few years ago - to be part of an open source project where people help each other out for free!

I also like that non hostile or non true Open Source forks are the only ones who can post about their projects here. But maybe the team should make some guidelines to what can be used and what can't.

What about mods other people made and are available at simplemachine's modsite and theme site? Can they implement them in their own projects? Some of these mods are not under a BSD licence and don't allow redistribution. Should they even be on the download pages?

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 03:14:49 PM »
this is getting somewhat off-topic....

but no...   if a mod is not BSD licensed, then it (technically) can not be included in any fork without the original author's permission.

As for them being available on the download site here...   we allow mods with different licenses, as long as they are free (money) to be distributed on our mod site.
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Offline NBK*Twitch

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 05:10:12 PM »
this is getting somewhat off-topic....

but no...   if a mod is not BSD licensed, then it (technically) can not be included in any fork without the original author's permission.


That is partly wrong. As long as the mod is using an open source license like the mit license you can add it to the fork without issue. It is one of the good things about being open source

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Offline Eliana Tamerin

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 06:59:06 PM »
I think Kindred means if the license is not one compatible with BSD then the mod can't be included. So licenses like MIT, Apache, LGPL and WTFPL (just to name a few) are probably fine. Some like SMF's old license, GPL (unless the fork wishes to become GPL), or something definitively closed source aren't possible.
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Offline 青山 素子

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 07:56:08 PM »
Some like SMF's old license, GPL (unless the fork wishes to become GPL), or something definitively closed source aren't possible.

You probably meant SMF's predecessor, YaBB SE.

Anyway, it could still be possible, as long as the licenses between the components are compatible. The licensing of the whole would just become the most restrictive of them all, namely the GPL. So, BSD, LGPL, and GPL combined would be under the GPL as a whole.
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Offline Douglas

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 11:51:59 PM »
The only thing I hope to see is that any fork that comes through at least gives a nod to SMF.  It's been a brutal road to get SMF where it's at now, so I'm personally hoping that a good amount of the forks will pay homage to the originators. :D

Offline live627

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 12:48:22 AM »
The only thing I hope to see is that any fork that comes through at least gives a nod to SMF.  It's been a brutal road to get SMF where it's at now, so I'm personally hoping that a good amount of the forks will pay homage to the originators. :D
I know Wedge does. It has a list of all  the SMF developers in the credits section.
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Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2011, 07:07:16 AM »
Wedge.org is currently running an RC version of SMF 2 with a custom theme. The credits came with.
When they are ready to show off their fork, then we'll see their license and who they credit.
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Offline DoctorMalboro

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 07:43:25 AM »
What if I want to fork the SMF's template system and to be still a part of SMF, is it possible?

Offline Drunken Clam

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2011, 07:51:56 AM »
Wedge.org is currently running an RC version of SMF 2 with a custom theme. The credits came with.
When they are ready to show off their fork, then we'll see their license and who they credit.

I think you'll find live627 was referring to Wedge the software, not Wedge.org  ::)

Offline Eliana Tamerin

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2011, 09:56:36 AM »
What if I want to fork the SMF's template system and to be still a part of SMF, is it possible?

If a fork is open source with a BSD compatible license, then it's entirely possible the SMF team may be interested in exchanging features with forks. Credit will be given as appropriate by the license chosen, but the code may eventually find its way into SMF proper, yes. Will it? That's up to the SMF dev team. You can make a fork and try it.
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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2011, 10:13:58 AM »
I think he meant - can he start his own fork, yet remain part of the SMF teams (mod/translator/support/etc)

Answer: yes...
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Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2011, 10:23:12 AM »
I think you'll find live627 was referring to Wedge the software, not Wedge.org  ::)
That's good to know.  I have not seen Wedge the software.
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Offline Aaron

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2011, 11:33:39 AM »
Fantastic move, team! It'd be great to see this board full of interesting topics in a few months. :)

Offline Kryzen

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »
Fantastic move, team! It'd be great to see this board full of interesting topics in a few months. :)
+1 :)
It's a great step forward :)

Offline DoctorMalboro

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2011, 05:42:54 PM »
I think he meant - can he start his own fork, yet remain part of the SMF teams (mod/translator/support/etc)

Answer: yes...
What I meant is if I can only fork the template system? Something like a boiler plate?

Offline Angelina Belle

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2011, 06:42:46 PM »
If  you make and distribute a personal modified version SMF, you've made a fork, and you'll need to follow the rules in the license.

If you sign an SMF CLA and contribute your changes to the SMF project, then the team may or may not choose to incorporate the changes into SMF itself.

If you make a modification package, which simply contains instructions for modifying SMF, only the rules for making mods apply.
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Offline teh_Krall

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2011, 02:06:24 AM »
Isn't this going to create a bit of chaos?

I'm sure it has the potential to spawn great ideas and more options, but more options doesn't necessarily make things better :). Or maybe it does? I love SMF and the free forum software it provides me to host on my own site. When you get into modifications though it's a double edge sword. There are some outstanding mods out there that transforms the base software into something even more grand. On the other hand though each time a new version of SMF arrives the chances of those mods being supported dwindles.

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2011, 02:35:58 AM »
There were released a lot of RC's and betas the last few years. But that time has past for now. Most mods working with the RC's should also work with 2.0 gold.

Offline kingston250

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2012, 12:42:39 PM »
Really a good step. Yes i hear about Nao and Arantor and no doubt they are working very well.

Offline waris

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2012, 11:15:13 AM »
Wanna see Wedge!

http://wedge.org/

Offline ahrasis

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2012, 10:03:12 PM »
Wedge is nice waris but it is not distributed yet.

Offline 青山 素子

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2012, 10:33:55 PM »
Wedge is also not currently under an open-source license, so please take discussion to somewhere the rules allow it, like the Chit Chat board.

Hopefully, it will get released with a compatible license to the rules in here and discussion can be centralized.
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Offline ahrasis

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2012, 11:11:03 PM »
We are not discussing it, we are mentioning it motoko. Like it is mentioned in the OP itself. I already asked why wedge license is not considered as open.

Offline 青山 素子

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2012, 11:47:42 PM »
I already asked why wedge license is not considered as open.

Sections 1(d), 1(e) and 2(c) at the very least. Those are in contradiction to items 1, 3, and 5 of the open source definition. Potentially 2(b) of the Wedge license is problematic as well.

The basic license is very similar to the original SMF license, with the addition of the discrimination against certain people. Without that clause, the product can be called open, but it's not in keeping with the rules of this board, which are for permissive open source licensed products only.
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Offline ahrasis

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2012, 12:24:00 AM »
I am not discussing wedge and will not be discussing wedge here. The owner has asked not to discussed about it here. I have asked about the license only but it is in another post. You may be right on license issue but we should not be penalized simply for mentioning wedge to certain extend.

Offline 青山 素子

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2012, 12:31:52 AM »
Sorry, I saw your post here and on the other topic and confused the two. I cross-posted there as well.

You may be right on license issue but we should not be penalized simply for mentioning wedge to certain extend.

No penalty was issued, as far as I know. It was simply mentioned that this is not the appropriate board to discuss that product.
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Offline ahrasis

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2012, 01:07:00 AM »
Ok. I have noted that. Thanks.

Offline Nao 尚

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2012, 04:19:52 AM »
I am not discussing wedge and will not be discussing wedge here. The owner has asked not to discussed about it here. I have asked about the license only but it is in another post. You may be right on license issue but we should not be penalized simply for mentioning wedge to certain extend.
No one's going to be penalized, it's simply a topic that tends to upset some SMF team members (including Motoko). It's understandable that it does, by the way, considering the issues we had two years ago, some of which were never resolved. We did resolve, though, that we would no longer be a 'hostile' fork and allow SMF to take some of our code if needed and permitted. (Which is definitively a progress compared to the beginning ;))

As for the owner asking to refrain from discussing Wedge -- I'm assuming you mean Pete? (Arantor.)
That's mainly because he's not encouraging the use of sarcasm, which is more likely to happen in a Wedge-centric discussion. Once bit, twice shy. I understand his position. I, myself, do not bother at all if Wedge is discussed here, with the condition that people understand that I don't visit sm.org regularly (actually I only visit when I hear about a problem with us), and as such I can't answer questions.
Heck, I already find it hard to answer questions these days at wedge.org -- after working like a madman for weeks before the private alpha, I had a burnout a couple of days after said release, and cowardly hid under my bed for a week or two. I'm only starting to surface these days and even then, I'm still not ready to release a public alpha right now. (I'm talking for myself -- Pete has taken over for now so he'd know better than I do. :))

Oh, and yes, Wedge is out... It's just that we're trying to keep the user base small for now, until we're sure it's ready for public consumption. Which it seems to be, according to our users, but there are still a few outstanding bugs I'm working on... (Damn CSS preprocessor!)
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Offline 青山 素子

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2012, 11:44:01 AM »
No one's going to be penalized, it's simply a topic that tends to upset some SMF team members (including Motoko).

Not upset, just pointing out the rules in here. If the rules change to allow discussion or the license changes, then I wouldn't do so.


and cowardly hid under my bed for a week or two.

You must have a high bed. I can't fit under mine.
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Offline Nao 尚

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2012, 02:11:09 PM »
You must have a high bed. I can't fit under mine.
Time to consider a diet maybe? :P
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Offline 青山 素子

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Re: The Forks are here!
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2012, 02:17:01 PM »
You must have a high bed. I can't fit under mine.
Time to consider a diet maybe? :P

I don't think even a diet would make me slimmer than 18cm.
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