SMF Development > Applied or Declined Requests

Deactivate/Activate IP-Logging and inaccurate or rounded posting times

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:

--- Quote ---What do I do?
--- End quote ---

Talk to your local governmental representative. If the law is flawed, argue against the law, fight the law, simple as that.


--- Quote ---Excuse me honest, but that's a bad argument.
--- End quote ---

Here's the thing: you're not the one who has to take that responsibility. I, and any other developer of good conscience, simply cannot write something to actively break around a law. The exact same changes benefit other sites that discuss illegal material - doesn't matter what the material is, whatever is done to benefit you to claim freedom of speech can be used in any other 'freedom of speech' claim for illegal material.


--- Quote ---On the contrary, it is forbidden under German law, to log the IP.
--- End quote ---

Is it? I was not aware of that. In fact, I know one German governmental site was actively using SMF a bit back, I don't believe they modified it to remove IP logging.


--- Quote ---Would you suspect ai wei wei, trying to distribute child pornography?
--- End quote ---

That was an example.

You're asking me how to modify your site to break the law. It is somewhat irrelevant what that law is. Whether it's suicide, or disparaging the site, or child pornography, or terrorism. I can't help you break one law on the basis that it's morally repugnant to others.

redone:
Is this actually a feature request?

Tobias Claren:
There is no law in Germany that the disabling of IP-logging prohibits.
You can disable it completely, or manipulated out.
You can also disable the server log (if you own or rent the server).
It is allowed to use in forums inaccurate or incorrect times.
Even if the goal is to hinder future theoretical investigations.
This is legal in Germany. Even in the United States.
Only the disability of a current investigation, is a criminal offense.
Not the prevention of future theoretical investigations.


On the contrary, the German Telemedia Act prohibits the logging of IP data.
In Germany, ISPs may not store IP data, if it is not necessary for billing.
So for each flat.
The same applies to website operators.

Holger voss successfully sued the German Telekom, because they published his personal details to the district attorney:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Voss [nofollow]


You help no one with a breach of law.
There's no law that forbids this.

Admit that you dismiss the idea, but not saying it would violate a law :-).
It violates no law. Also not in the United States.
Possibly in China or Iran or North Korea? Is this a problem  ::) ?

Chewbacca Defense;-)?

I've only made a proposal for a function.
You have expressed your disapproval.
That's just your opinion, which I accept.




--- Quote ---Is it? I was not aware of that. In fact, I know one German governmental site was actively using SMF a bit back, I don't believe they modified it to remove IP logging.
--- End quote ---

It is legally controversial, whether it is sufficient to mention that you log IPs.
The Telemedia Act says you may store personal information only for billing purposes.
IPs are "personal data".

Well known german political partys like the pirate party ( www.Piratenpartei.de [nofollow] => http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.piratenpartei.de%2F [nofollow] ) or two sites of the liberal party ( www.fdp-fraktion.de [nofollow] and www.fdp-dvp-fraktion.de [nofollow] ) has deactivated (or chopped-off from a "ready" cms or forum) the ip logging in the site script and on their servers.
The German prosecutors can not determine a user of the site.
The Pirate Party also has a forum.
Writers can not be identified by the IP.

Btw.:

http://digg.com/news/story/Visit_this_web_page_be_on_the_German_terror_watchlist [nofollow]

( http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Foraclesyndicate.twoday.net%2Fstories%2F4323879%2F [nofollow] )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militante_gruppe_%28mg%29 [nofollow]

A well known (in german internet) lawyer:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawblog.de%2Findex.php%2Farchives%2F2007%2F09%2F30%2Fschon-mal-beim-bka-gesurft%2F [nofollow]





@RedOne
Yes

:
You're missing my point.

I understand where you're coming from. I understand why you want it, and I would implement it for you if I could. But I won't.

If I make the mod available for you, it will be misused by others who would break other laws in other countries. I cannot do this in good conscience, even though I sympathise with your situation. No matter how much you argue, no matter how much you try to confuse the matter with other legal wranglings, it changes nothing.

I don't see how SMF can implement this as a core feature either, for exactly the same reasons. Doing so would enable other sites with illegal content to exist more easily.

You're saying, essentially, that the laws in your country are unreasonable and that you'd like a way to circumvent them. By that same logic, one can argue that prevention of discussing child porn is unreasonable and that you'd like a way to circumvent that too. It doesn't matter whether the material is unreasonable or not: asking for a way to make it harder to investigate later for your (much nicer) case is going to benefit those who want to set up a forum for far less beneficial reasons.

Tobias Claren:
In no country in the world that is breaking the law.
In which country?

OK, I follow your curious morality:
You'll find it all right to break the German law?

In Germany, you're breaking the law if you save IPs.

Another
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-245277.html?s=19531de5712fcbed7a946ebad5f9a45f [nofollow]

Make it switched on and off.
Then anyone can possibly act upon the existing laws of his country.

You write tangled.



I never mentioned that all Germans are bad laws. This accusation is confusing.
The laws in my list are laws, which would (possibly) repel most U.S. citizens.

Also, I do not want to prevent the enforcement of German law.
There is no German law that compels a citizen to help the police identify a suicider.
Not even if you know IPs.
You can let die the suicide announcer. And you need not call the police.

The visitors trust you. The example was not a self-help website. The visitors have the goal to kill himself, and the site gives them an opportunity with public attention. And they (must) know that no one wants there to prevent that. No self-help group (such as many common suicide forums).


Is there a law in the U.S. that forces you to save IPs? I do not think so.
Please give me the paragraph.
It will probably be banned in more countries to save IPs.

If you control the server (purchased or rented), you can always disable the IP logging.
Then it is unnecessary to make the time inaccurate.
Your arguments have no basis.


Also, my intention is irrelevant.
This is a request for a feature for many users worldwide.

The simple IP logging can I turn off as a layman.
Just not as comfortable on and off.



--- Quote ---By default, SMF logging the IP addresses of forum users. To restore from this:

The file "load.php" and in the file "QueryString.php" replace all occurrences of the term you

     $ _SERVER ['REMOTE_ADDR']

by

     '127 .0.0.1 '

This is best to use the "Search and Replace" in a text editor.

--- End quote ---


If a Chinese or Iranian because of the absence of these possibilities is arrested, you are morally share responsibility.
OK, a bit far-fetched, but not entirely wrong.


...Oh, "far less beneficial reasons" not automatically criminal reasons!

Possibly there are inter-language communication problem or misunderstanding.

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