Topic: Will SMF and Joomla live happily ever after, together?

[baijianpeng]

Good news. If JFusion was fused with J2SMF, then we will have a new bridge which can wrap the SMF inside Joomla! and have dual login at the same time.

Ok, I will wait for this new one.

Thank you Sadr for inform us.

[ahrasis]

I guess this is a good news for J + SMF users... I really hope a happy ending will come soon... While Mambo + SMF is supported, lack of 3PD support will make Mambo more and more irrelevant in the future... While I hate using JSMF for its hacking, I guess I have no other better choice but to use it until the improved Jfusion comes.

[redone]

I think its awesome so many developers have released working bridges with SMF and Joomla that meet the relevant license requirements. When talking about CMS and SMF I have found drupal to be a very powerful development tool too.

[JoeP]

(...)Now, Toby at http://www.gmitc.biz had developed a bridge named J2SMF for Joomla! 1.5.x and SMF 1.1.x. I had tested it, it can wrap SMF inside Joomla! 1.5.2 and works well except that can't offer dual login.

So I think if someone help him and make further development on J2SMF, maybe we can get a perfect bridge which can do user synchronization properly.

Funny you should say that. The maker of JFusion got in touch with Toby, maker of J2SMF, and he didn't have time to work on J2SMF anymore. Therefore, JFusion will be taking over the development of this bridge with full permissions given. Marius has also told me that SMF 2.0 support will be given once the software is in RC/Stable, seeing as it would be a waste to develop a bridge for it while the code is still changing.

That is totally awesome news! 
For my site, I had cobbled together modified versions of J2SMF and JFusion and had suggested to Toby and Marius that a collaboration would be something worth considering.  You can check my results at bigtreestech.com.  I've still got to do some CSS work, but it's functional.

It's a shame that Toby hasn't said anything about it over in his site.  Lots of wannabe J2SMF users are struggling and not getting any love.  I also don't recall seeing anything about J2SMF over on the JFusion site other than what I wrote.... maybe I just missed it.
Again, thanks for the very welcome good news!

[Orstio]

I think its awesome so many developers have released working bridges with SMF and Joomla that meet the relevant license requirements.

So many?  I've seen only one integration so far that meets relevant license requirements - JFusion, and while it is a good attempt, it falls short of what a bridge could do.

[ilwoody]

The bridge Ive been working on is not compatible but pretty much close, is gpl 2.0, does not use any smf code, but has a the malicious line of code

Code: [Select]

require(smf/index.php);

and just for that I dont meet the FSF criteria for "what static linking is in a php script".
I would need a very simple step to assolve this and  be sure to be 100% compatible with the joomla license,
just remove it

Then I could ask the users to write down the very same  string in the component administration panel..
require('smf/index.php')

I already ask for the absolute smf path, so it shouldnt be a problem .. what do you think about this ? is it cheating ?

[erlend_sh]

Keep in mind that JFusion would come along much faster if you go and become an active part of the JFusion community, maybe donate some money, or contribute directly by aiding in the development of JFusion by providing plug-ins for instance. But again, most importantly, just become a part of the community and get in touch with Marius, and from there you can figure out more easily how you can help making a fully functional Joomla!+SMF integration reality.

@ilwoody: I'm sure Marius would be very happy to work alongside you. It's better if more people can work together, rather than having 10 decent bridges for SMF+Joomla! around. Also, I've also been thinking about methods like your "workaround", which is why I find this type of license very confusing... If that method is acceptable, then this license makes absolutely no sense.

[青山 素子]

Also, I've also been thinking about methods like your "workaround", which is why I find this type of license very confusing... If that method is acceptable, then this license makes absolutely no sense.

The GPL was written with compiled programs in mind, which makes it apply in strange ways to interpreted things like PHP scripts. I personally like the GPL, but I don't think it works well with web scripting.

[Orstio]

The bridge Ive been working on is not compatible but pretty much close, is gpl 2.0, does not use any smf code, but has a the malicious line of code

Code: [Select]

require(smf/index.php);

and just for that I dont meet the FSF criteria for "what static linking is in a php script".
I would need a very simple step to assolve this and  be sure to be 100% compatible with the joomla license,
just remove it

Then I could ask the users to write down the very same  string in the component administration panel..
require('smf/index.php')

I already ask for the absolute smf path, so it shouldnt be a problem .. what do you think about this ? is it cheating ?

As long as you are doing the require statement within the output buffer, you can technically claim that you are merely retrieving the data from the forum output and storing that in the buffer, so the real interface is solely with the output of the forum, and not the script itself.

But, you also have the use of SMF data structures ($user_settings, $context, $smcFunc, etc) in your GPL-connected application, which was partially what stalled my attempt.

(BTW Ilwoody, you have an integrate_exit function in your bridge.php, but it is not defined in the SMF_INTEGRATION_SETTINGS array.  Intentional, or accident?)

[mariusvr]

JFusion started as a vbulletin specific bridge vb_auth, because of my frustrations with the lack of Joomla 1.5 bridges. However I soon realised that many people where coding similar bridges for different software's and each programmer was somewhat reinventing the wheel. JFusion was then born with the idea of making Joomla 1.5 bridges much easier, where a plugin contains only the specific software codes (SQL statements to fetch user information, etc) and JFusion would do the rest of the work.

Collaborations with different software commities is extremely important to me. JFusion is an open-source free software and many people have contributed to the code making JFusion a better product for everyone. With regards to SMF, I am working with Toby from J2SMF on creating a version of J2SMF that works with JFusion and will allow many different software's to take advantage of his brilliant piece of coding. I would be more than happy to work with ilwoody on a Joomla<-->SMF bridge, if he is interested. As we all have the same goals in the end.

JFusion has been completely rewritten in the last couple of weeks. Multiple simultaneous integrations are now possible (ie. have Joomla and SMF and magento ecommerce user integration). AJAX usersync in the Joomla administrator for large sites to prevent time-outs. Code has been optimised for minimal usage of resources (minimal SQL queries, recycling of JFusion objects with a new php factory, single quotes vs double quotes, Model-View-Controller (MVC) code structure, etc etc). I am hoping to release a JFusion 1.0.7 alpha, with Joomla<-->phpBB3 only support at the end of this weekend. This will allow feedback on the new framework and allow other developers to work on JFusion plugins. I will then focus on getting the SMF JFusion plugin upgraded with the new functionalities, work on the J2SMF type visual integration and get a discuss-bot up and running.

You can have a look at the new framework and code on:

www.jfusion.org/api [nofollow]

Still a lot of work left to do, but I am excited that these new functions are within reach now.

Thanks, Marius
(JFusion developer)

[JoeP]

BTW, it could be EXTREMELY helpful if the smf_api.php code were released under gpl as originally expected!
My implementation of an integrated J2SMF and JFusion, supporting dual login, relies on use of smf_api.php (modified a bit) which, under current conditions, is not distributable as I understand it.
joe

[青山 素子]

BTW, it could be EXTREMELY helpful if the smf_api.php code were released under gpl as originally expected!

It was never intended as GPL licensed. I believe the intent was a much less restrictive license like the BSD or MIT.

[redone]

I think its awesome so many developers have released working bridges with SMF and Joomla that meet the relevant license requirements.

So many?  I've seen only one integration so far that meets relevant license requirements - JFusion, and while it is a good attempt, it falls short of what a bridge could do.

Your correct there is certainly a difference between an integration and bridge. I should of said there has been many new integrations come out rather than bridge. Either way its good some work has been put forth to offer some hope to users wanting to use SMF and Joomla.

[Orstio]

BTW, it could be EXTREMELY helpful if the smf_api.php code were released under gpl as originally expected!

smf_api.php isn't ever going to be released under a copyleft license.  The plan was to release it under a permissive license, as Motoko-chan pointed out.

[JoeP]

BTW, it could be EXTREMELY helpful if the smf_api.php code were released under gpl as originally expected!

It was never intended as GPL licensed. I believe the intent was a much less restrictive license like the BSD or MIT.

hmmm... I guess I just misunderstood this statement:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=16572.msg196392#msg196392
I had the impression that that statement was made by the author of smf_api.php, [Unknown].
joe

[Orstio]

Right, except as we all know, GPL does not allow connection to proprietary software, and also does not allow for dual licensing.

Permissive licenses give the freedom to the developer, not to the software, so if we went that route, you and other developers would be a lot happier.

[JoeP]

Right, except as we all know, GPL does not allow connection to proprietary software, and also does not allow for dual licensing.

Permissive licenses give the freedom to the developer, not to the software, so if we went that route, you and other developers would be a lot happier.

Thanks Orstio,
Happiness is good.  I respect your judgment in this matter.
Any ideas as to when this alternate licensing for smf_api.php might be achieved?
I am assuming & hoping that the alternate licensing will also allow for code modification as some modifications or additions may be required.
Thanks,
joe

[ilwoody]

@ilwoody: I'm sure Marius would be very happy to work alongside you. It's better if more people can work together, rather than having 10 decent bridges for SMF+Joomla! around. Also, I've also been thinking about methods like your "workaround", which is why I find this type of license very confusing... If that method is acceptable, then this license makes absolutely no sense.

I wish I could .. because of the small amount of personal time I can invest either on sjsb or generally on the bridge problem, I would not be in the position to help concretely the JFusion community; also you would probably need someone who really know these minefields  I say a name, Orstio ..

[ilwoody]

(BTW Ilwoody, you have an integrate_exit function in your bridge.php, but it is not defined in the SMF_INTEGRATION_SETTINGS array.  Intentional, or accident?)

Intentional, I've yet to understand if I need it or not .. atm no, but in the future I could put there the 'throw' code

[ilwoody]

BTW, it could be EXTREMELY helpful if the smf_api.php code were released under gpl as originally expected!
My implementation of an integrated J2SMF and JFusion, supporting dual login, relies on use of smf_api.php (modified a bit) which, under current conditions, is not distributable as I understand it.
joe

can you just ask for your user to get and install it for you ? then you would just need to provide an smf modification package to patch it. I may be wrong, but what license would you break in this scenario ?