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Author Topic: A "basic" theme?  (Read 1260 times)

Offline Chair

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A "basic" theme?
« on: June 18, 2012, 07:43:14 AM »
Hey everyone,

I've found myself quite busy creating a theme framework modification that makes theme creation faster, easier and offers more control over aspects of SMF that aren't easily changed outside of SMF's core files (Such as the pagination).

I've had to create a very dull and bland default template that is stripped of all unnecessary styling to make this easier to work with - a "skeleton theme", if you will. It has only what is really needed in a theme so it's easier to get started with theme creation. What I wanted to know, is if anyone has done a theme like this before?

If anyone has, I would really like to have a look at it and compare it to mine, so I can see if I missed anything or removed anything I shouldn't have by accident :)

Thanks in advance

Offline Akyhne

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012, 07:14:06 PM »
I would really like to have a look at it and compare it to mine, so I can see if I missed anything or removed anything I shouldn't have by accident :)
I think you should compare it to the Default theme. That's the only way to see if something's missing.
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Offline Chair

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 08:08:53 PM »
I would really like to have a look at it and compare it to mine, so I can see if I missed anything or removed anything I shouldn't have by accident :)
I think you should compare it to the Default theme. That's the only way to see if something's missing.

I considered that, before realizing it's a waste of time. I've done it already - now is the time to compare it to something similar (if there is anything) to seek better ways of simplifying it (a la other methods of accomplishing things I accomplished - better methods). The default theme just has way too much going on for aesthetics that the code for which is now completely unnecessary (not that I don't like the theme - it's just a little stuck in the past at the moment ;) ). SMF has some great coders - but it needs better designers.

Sigh... You wouldn't happen to know which theme for the latest version is the simplest? I understand there probably isn't one as I described in the first post but looking for something close to it might be worth it.

Offline Jade Elizabeth

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 01:31:35 AM »
There's a section for minimal themes
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?action=search;type=1

And a quick search will yield many of them:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2270
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2561


It's not whether you've left anything out that could be a problem...the problem is can mods install on it easily? When you install mods they look for curve code and if they can't find it it could be a problem.

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Offline Chair

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 03:19:58 AM »
There's a section for minimal themes
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?action=search;type=1

And a quick search will yield many of them:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2270
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2561


It's not whether you've left anything out that could be a problem...the problem is can mods install on it easily? When you install mods they look for curve code and if they can't find it it could be a problem.

*Sigh* - no, none of those results will do. I guess I'll just try and better it myself. As for mods installing on it easily, well yes - that suits the general purpose of a framework - but mods designed to suit my framework. It's a team project, and I'm working my arse off with it. The fact that mods look for curve-specific code is a huge design flaw, and in my two years of creating themes for SMF, it's something I've been exceptionally ranty about. Mods shouldn't have to edit theme code at all - that's why there's significance in separating front-end code and back-end code. If a mod absolutely must edit theme code, then it shouldn't be a mod - it should be a theme. Of course, when I say theme code, I mean specific theme code, not general purpose frontends crucial to the mod (which can be achieved with a simple to implement templating API - crossed that one off my to-do list about two weeks ago in fact).

Thanks for the help though.

Offline Akyhne

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 01:55:29 PM »
I understand your thoughts. But then again SMF is famous for its way to be modified.
People talk about hooks and they can probably be very usefull in many ways. But they also limit how you can modify your forum.

You say there's to much going on in the default theme. What do you mean by that? To many functions, to many options? Or is it about reducing file sizes?
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Offline Antechinus

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 05:52:11 PM »
I've had to create a very dull and bland default template that is stripped of all unnecessary styling to make this easier to work with - a "skeleton theme", if you will. It has only what is really needed in a theme so it's easier to get started with theme creation. What I wanted to know, is if anyone has done a theme like this before?

I know the sort of thing you mean. You're thinking of something like this: http://speckyboy.com/2010/03/22/10-blanknaked-wordpress-themes-perfect-for-development/

It's a good idea, and perhaps SMF should have an official one, but as far as I know nobody has ever made such a thing for SMF. Basically the problem is that SMF themers tend to be rather unadventurous, and tend to make themes that are fairly minor modifcations of the current default. Obviously this statement will cause some disgruntlement, but I think it's true. Rearranging a couple of divs in index.template.php and changing some graphics does not, IMHO, constitute major changes.
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Offline Chair

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 05:13:25 PM »
Quote from: Akyhne
You say there's to much going on in the default theme. What do you mean by that? To many functions, to many options? Or is it about reducing file sizes?

The functions and options are fine as they are, in fact I like that about Curve. Reducing file sizes would be a start, but no, that's not what I meant. I'm talking pure aesthetics - not function. Imagine if Curve were a car - In that scenario, I would effectively be describing the outermost body, or hull, of said car. I couldn't care for the inner workings of the car - but I definitely don't see the purpose of unnecessary air vents in the roof of the car for a development environment, so to speak.

Quote from: Antechinus
It's a good idea, and perhaps SMF should have an official one, but as far as I know nobody has ever made such a thing for SMF. Basically the problem is that SMF themers tend to be rather unadventurous, and tend to make themes that are fairly minor modifcations of the current default. Obviously this statement will cause some disgruntlement, but I think it's true. Rearranging a couple of divs in index.template.php and changing some graphics does not, IMHO, constitute major changes.

I don't advocate that SMF should offer one (though it would certainly be appreciated), I'm just surprised that after all these years no one who uses SMF or is comfortable making themes (and perhaps is a little experienced) has made one available by now. As for themers being unadventurous, from what I've seen I'd have to say quite the opposite. You're full aware that I've been modifying themes for a long time over at DzinerStudio and I very much agree that making subtle changes is not an entirely difficult process, but making a means to an end for simplifying the development process even further would certainly increase the chances of designers being more comfortable in expanding their theme's prowess - the only thing stopping them is the fact that there is so much unnecessary code splattered across every single template because back when Curve was first created, that was the web design way of achieving things.

Let me tell you something about my personal life. I work in market analysis and research. My most current project is to research the major types of commodities of commercial agriculture in every province in South Africa right down to the respective municipal districts and then interviewing the major producing farmers in those districts by telephone for a large banking institution. South Africa has a population of 49.8 million people, and farming plays a big part. Only two other people and myself are working on this project - and the time it took to complete doesn't even hold a candle to the time it took me just to remove the code for the rounded corners in every Curve template (which I have since upgraded to a cross browser CSS3 method that achieves the same result - I can control this with one variable in a LESS file). :/

Offline Arantor

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 05:14:59 PM »
Quote
and the time it took to complete doesn't even hold a candle to the time it took me just to remove the code for the rounded corners in every Curve template

I feel your pain here, even though it wasn't actually me that removed all the relevant code...

Offline Akyhne

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 06:01:56 PM »
CSS3 isn't exactly cross-browser compatible. CSS3 is the future, not the present.

It's really not up to designers to decide what browser/version people should use. If you are a good themer, you make themes for everyone.
Coding for CSS3 browsers only, is being lazy, nothing else.

As far as your theme project goes, you are making a simple-to-edit theme for people who can't edit them anyway.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 06:14:04 PM »
Is that addressed at me or Chair?

To be honest, CSS3 support is improving all the time and even IE9 is now pretty good at supporting most things, so to call it lazy or dealing with the future is a bit naive, really - why not code for the standard that everyone's converging to and then only add in the extra bit for those still lagging behind? Far easier than creating a behemoth that is everything for everyone from day one.

Offline Akyhne

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 06:17:16 PM »
It was addressed to Chair. Facts are many people are using older browsers for various reasons.
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Offline Arantor

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 06:28:33 PM »
The number's dwindling, though, and surprisingly rapidly. Yes, there are users still using IE6, but that number is smaller than ever.

Offline Chair

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Re: A "basic" theme?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 06:59:36 PM »
You'd be surprised - while CSS3 in and of itself isn't compatible with legacy browsers, several techniques - many much simpler than Curve's rounded corner methods, are compatible all the way back to IE 5.5 ;)