Would SMF ever betray us?

[Kerry Jones]

Hi,

I'm just a new comer and a fan of this forum software already. I use to be a supporter of IPB software until they betrayed the community and people who help built them. I'm wondering what stops Simple Machine Forums from betraying us? I would like to partipate alot more, but i'm wondering what stops SMF from charging for its product? If you can give me more feedback on this i'll be happy to start urging my friends to start switching from phpbb, ipb, etc.

[Mystica]

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=16971.msg140624#msg140624

[Kerry Jones]

Are you referring to [Unknown]'s post?

The idea of open source is simple and sweet; it is not an idea of communism or socialism like its critics sometimes say.

You see, throughout commerce and money-making, there are a few important things people have found make them money:
   1. The customer being treated well, such that they will come back and recommend the product and/or services to their friends.
   2. More people knowing about the product (advertising) and being able to get use out of it.

Further, it has been concluded that the following contribute to those goals:
   1. Being able to modify the code such that you can change anbything you don't like about the product, given modivation.
   2. Having the opportunity to receive the product and/or service for free or at the least possible cost.

Why are these two things important?  Because if the software is free, anyone can download it.  If anyone can download it, then anyone who could possibly get use out of the product has a chance to use it, however much money they may have.  These people then contribute by referring other people (who can also get it for free) and by:
   1. Creating and developing solutions to other peoples problems, such as modifications, which are also open source.
   2. Developing advocacy for the software because it is well written and well maintained.

So, in other words, by not charging for the software, and by even letting anyone download it... we increase the yield.  Marketting strategy.  We also develop advocacy much better and stronger (there are people who like paid products too, just not as strongly in most cases) than otherwise.  We're adding significant fuel to the fire that is the project.

Most small business that don't fail in their first few years operate on a net loss, as is commonly known.  If you want to make money, it's going to be in the long run not the short.  Open source is just a widening of this; if we have a million users (0.5% of which paid), and you have only 100 ones (who all paid, and more) we still got more money than you did.  100 * 100 < 5000 * 50.

There's also the point of support.  As we do here, most open source projects charge for advanced support.  While this isn't for everyone, this is how they make money.  The idea is to grow the client base from which the few paid ones come; again my numbers above.

Another very important and often ignored point is education.  How hard is it to enter the programming market?  Not that easy in some cases.  Sure, you can go on google and learn some things... but you're still a yellow novice.  No one would hire you like that!  Open source is a way people who aren't quite experts yet can grow and expand their knowledge such that they can become attractive employees.  Yes, they're offering their software to you for free.... but you're offering to use and test it, and give them legitamacy for free too!  They're giving you products, and you're increasing their resume.

It's barter, and it's done everywhere on this planet.  Just because open source does it so well that it's starting to threaten "paid" companies like Microsoft only proves how good a strategy it is.  If it weren't, if it weren't a gain to people... it wouldn't happen.

We're not crazy hippies, us open source people... we're programmers and I at least am a big fan of the free market.

-[Unknown]

if so, I got it.

[Daniel D.]

She linked to his post, so she must referring to his post.

Welcome to SMF and I hope you won't stop like it.

[Kerry Jones]

Oh I do like SMF because you guys seem pretty friendly. Its just that so many people got burned by Invision Board and their promises. Ideas are  something that come natural to me and I can defiantly improve the product at hand. If any ideas pop into my head on improving the software in general i'm all for it. I'm hoping to become a charter member /  advertiser in the near future when I have funds available for it.

I hope Simple Machine Forums follows the Google's princpal of "do not evil".

[Trekkie101]

Well YaBBSE stayed free, plus this is the best community ive ever joined, and now a new person to talk to, its getting more and more fun.

Im Trekkie.

[Daniel D.]

I hope Simple Machine Forums follows the Google's princpal of "do not evil".

[[Unknown]]

Yep, we're just some not-so-crazy hippies, is all .  Seriously, I've said before that if SMF was ever not free it would be the surest way for me to leave the team, and start working on something else - possibly another free forum software.

-[Unknown]

[Alisha]

Like other victims of IPB *I* would PIRATE the HELL out of SMF!  I would make sure NO ONE would have to pay for a copy of SMF. 

[[Unknown]]

Oooh, yes, I would pirate it too and no one could stop me because I wrote like at least a good 70% of it.

-[Unknown]

[Trekkie101]

um ya, i would leave too, but do we really need to talk about all this when it isnt gonna happen anytime soon if at all.

[Daniel D.]

um ya, i would leave too, but do we really need to talk about all this when it isnt gonna happen anytime soon if at all.

I wanted to ask few seconds ago...

[Trekkie101]

Ask what?

[Alisha]

um ya, i would leave too, but do we really need to talk about all this when it isnt gonna happen anytime soon if at all.

Yes, this is a GOOD idea to talk about now, Every day SMF gets new users, and these new users have concerns.  I know I did, I used YABBSE and when it stopped and went to SMF, I was not happy and considered other forums.  So, yes the future of SMF needs to be addressed.

I am pretty sure you would not want to start over with a new forum software now, or in 2 years.  This is a valid topic esp for those that are looking to switch to SMF.

[Trekkie101]

I like the topic but talking about pirateing it already before any downfall seems pre-mature.

[Alisha]

I like the topic but talking about pirateing it already before any downfall seems pre-mature.

Not at all, its a responce to what *I* would if they did betray us.  After it happens there is nothing to talk about. 

[helenbpd]

The word "betray" seems a wee strong, doesn't it ..?  

Disappoint users, sell out to Bill Gates, discover the children now need college tuition paid after years of feedin' 'em Ramen noodles, be fired by a ruthless new management takeover, get sick and have to sell rights, etc.  All these things might always happen to anyone who produces this kind of open-source aka "free" product.  Nothing is ever guaranteed in life.

I've found that for me as the user/benefactee, the best emotional approach to is not to predict future failures at the expense of enjoying present benefits.   And this is truly one ******in' message forum package.  Welcome.

[Daniel D.]

um ya, i would leave too, but do we really need to talk about all this when it isnt gonna happen anytime soon if at all.

Yes, this is a GOOD idea to talk about now, Every day SMF gets new users, and these new users have concerns. I know I did, I used YABBSE and when it stopped and went to SMF, I was not happy and considered other forums. So, yes the future of SMF needs to be addressed.

I am pretty sure you would not want to start over with a new forum software now, or in 2 years. This is a valid topic esp for those that are looking to switch to SMF.

What are you talking about? This team did only one change - from SE to SMF. Why do you make prejudices if you don't know the future? This is miserable...

[Kerry Jones]

Oooh, yes, I would pirate it too and no one could stop me because I wrote like at least a good 70% of it.

-[Unknown]

I would have to say that one made me laugh since your a developer! 

Well, i'm convinced. I'll start gathering up some ideas to improve the software. I do have one suggestion with the permission settings. They defiantly do need to be organized or able to copy it for several groups.

[Alisha]

What are you talking about? This team did only one change - from SE to SMF. Why do you make prejudices if you don't know the future? This is miserable...

I am not saying SMF has done anything wrong.  It bothered me at first when I went to start another forum and SE was gone and SMF was still being born and totally new concept.  I had donated funds to the development of SE and thought that was a waste. 

There are 100's of "Free" & "Open Source" products that swear they are all about the concept and the users that turn commercial because they see the money potential.  They lie to users to get their product going and as soon as its going good, poof its now 99$. 

While I have never seen a Factual statement that SMF will NEVER be commercial software the TEAM does infer it.  I do not see SMF doing this or I would not be here. Although, the thought has crossed my mind. The Choice sits with Unknown & who ever holds the rights to "Simple Machine Name, as far as I can see.  His statement here, totally removed those thoughts and soon I will once again look into support for SMF.  I am on a limited income as a college student so my money means a little more than others.  I have been taken by a few developers on Source Forge already.  So I am a little cautious about "Open Source".

I still can see that someone that has purchased IPB to think hard before they switch to SMF. Even though it is a better forum, they are trashing they money they spent on IPB for something that is still relatively in development and could turn paid with not control of its users.  This is kinda a checks and balance topic where yes, the members do have some control, not only will we pirate it, it will destroy the reputation of SMF.  I see this conversation as a comfort to new and current members rather than a negative or miserable discussion.