How many sub-forums are supported?

[nwflyboy]

I have a forum running an older version of SMF (v1.x).  I'm gearing up to upgrade to 2.0 (maybe the current 2.0RC5, maybe I'll wait for the next one, but since I have no sense of how long that'll be, honestly I'll probably go with the latest RC5).

My question is about how many sub-forums are supported (and function reasonably).

For reasons too complicated to go into here, I'm thinking of expanding my current forum substantially when I upgrade.  I currently have a fairly simply forum structure, with about a dozen sub-forums.  I'm planning to add many more sub-forums - about 500 new sub-forums.

I'm sure that to some people this sounds crazy, but I need an organizational scheme that holds this many separate categories.  Imagine, for example, that you want to set up a sub-forum for each county in the western United States, so discussions of that county's (roads, lakes, campgrounds, whatever) are nicely organized by county - imagine a forum structure something like this:

California - (there are 58 counties in Calif)
   - Alameda County
   - Alpine County
   - Amador County
   - etc.
   - etc.
Oregon - (there are 36 counties in Oregon)
   - Baker County
   - Benton County
   - Clackamas County
   - etc.
   - etc.
Washington State - (there are 39 counties in Washington state)
   - Adams County
   - Asotin County
   - etc.

You get the idea.

My specific questions are:

1. What is the maximum number of sub-forums supported by SMF2.0RC5?
2. Assuming that number is > 500 (and sure I hope it is, because that's what I've been planning), when there are 500+ sub-forums, should I expect any performance issues or other problems?
3. Has anyone out there constricted a forum with that many sub-forums?  I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.

Thanks!

[Oldiesmann]

By default, SMF can handle up to 32,767 boards (parent and sub-boards). If you need more than that, you'd need to modify some of the database tables.

[Arantor]

1. What is the maximum number of sub-forums supported by SMF2.0RC5?

Sub forums are not considered any different to regular forums for the purposes of the limit, which is 65535 ever created (it's a sequentially increasing number, deleting one does not free up that number for next time)

(@Oldiesmann: It's an unsigned smallint, which caps at 65535 rather than 32767)

2. Assuming that number is > 500 (and sure I hope it is, because that's what I've been planning), when there are 500+ sub-forums, should I expect any performance issues or other problems?

Yes, there are performance issues with doing it. Board access is not particularly cheap to process, but there are worse things to deal with.

I'd actually say a bigger problem is the fact your forum will look so incredibly empty that it will put people off unless you already have content to post in them up front. Even if you only had one board per state that'd look very empty until they were reasonably populated.

3. Has anyone out there constricted a forum with that many sub-forums?  I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.

I think the most I've ever seen on a forum is 200 boards in total. But even the very largest SMF forum out there does not have that many boards; there is a definite value to having broad focus to the boards.

[nwflyboy]

OK, that's good - thanks Oldiesmann and Arantor.

I'd actually say a bigger problem is the fact your forum will look so incredibly empty that it will put people off unless you already have content to post in them up front. Even if you only had one board per state that'd look very empty until they were reasonably populated.

Actually, I do plan to pre-populate each sub-form with at least one post.  I've actually started on this "expansion" on my old board, but have restricted the "under construction" sections so ordinary users don't see it.

I'm planning 4 new parent sub-forums, each with anywhere from 90 to 150 child boards.  I've got the first one (parent) set up, with about 125 child boards set up, each with an introductory post. That seems to be working fine, but before I start adding 3 more sections (and about 350 more child boards), I wanted to make sure I wouldn't run into some hard-coded limit.  Sounds like I won't.  Yes, it is a lot of work, but for this application, I think it will be worth it.

Thanks for the speedy answer.

[Danny S.]

I have to side with Arantor on this one. With so many boards, it's going to look quite empty (even with the introductory post).

Most people who visit your site will notice that there is only one post in each category and will instantly be turned off. I would suggest creating a board for each state first (even with 50, it would still be a ghost town), or a certain region. Once traffic and content pick up, expand the boards and move topics around.

One site that I frequent is similar to your idea, but is MUCH larger (20 million posts). And they don't even have that many boards per state...

http://www.city-data.com/forum/

[Arantor]

So you'll have a post or two in each board. Even assuming people find the right board - which judging by this site, is alarmingly infrequently - it's going to look incredibly empty.

Someone isn't going to jump in and start posting content because there's a single post per board. You're going to need at least ten posts per board to encourage people that it's anything more than a ghost town. I've seen so many forums fail over the last 2 years because people don't want to encourage building in the community, and they think that horizontal partitioning is the way to go, but in reality all it does is spread the content that much more thinly.

This site has 2.5m posts, and far, far fewer boards than you have currently, let alone plan to have, and even then there are boards that look empty and forlorn by comparison. (There is a board here, a single board, with half a million posts all to itself in it!)

[Danny S.]

Perfectly spoken Arantor!

The link I posted earlier has one board with over 2.6M posts in it!

[Kindred]

on the site which I admin, we have nearly 3 million posts...   
We don't have *ANY* child boards and we only create a new board when a specific topic gets so populart that it starts dominating the original board.

in other words, you should rarely, if ever, start a forum with more than 10-20 boards (I'd say, 10 is better)

[Danny S.]

in other words, you should rarely, if ever, start a forum with more than 10-20 boards (I'd say, 10 is better)

I agree. The 5-8 range is usually what I start with. My Ford Ranger site started with 6 and has expanded to about 10 boards and 10 or so child boards. Mostly due to better organization and member requests.