Remove the switch that disables account removal

[NanoSector]

Hi there.

Yes, bug report. Not feature request, bug report.

My friend and me have been searching in the law for certain problems amongst websites.
While searching we found that it is illegal to forbid people to delete their accounts in some countries (not all).
There is a switch in SMF that disables the account removal, thus forbidding people to remove their accounts.

This piece of law will get to more countries anytime soon, so I think it's a good idea to remove the switch now so SMF doesn't get in trouble.

[Robert.]

Couldn't agree more. Disallowing someone to remove their personal information is rude, offensive and BS. Within a few years/months/whatever there will be a law created by the EU that disallows disallowing the removal of personal information. It would be great, awesome and fantastic to see that switch removed.

[emanuele]

While searching we found that it is illegal to forbid people to delete their accounts in some countries (not all).
There is a switch in SMF that disables the account removal, thus forbidding people to remove their accounts.

But there is also the permission that allows admin to allow remove accounts.
So if in a country the law asks you to give this permission you can use it, if not you are free...am I wrong?

[NanoSector]

While searching we found that it is illegal to forbid people to delete their accounts in some countries (not all).
There is a switch in SMF that disables the account removal, thus forbidding people to remove their accounts.

But there is also the permission that allows admin to allow remove accounts.
So if in a country the law asks you to give this permission you can use it, if not you are free...am I wrong?

Some websites in the countires with this law still forbid it. And I highly disagree with these.

People are free to keep their information private if they want to. They should NEVER be forbidden to remove their accounts; let them remove their accounts + posts if they see the need to do so.

[IchBin™]

That's the whole point in having the option though. For those places that need to allow it, they can. For those that don't need to allow it, and don't want to allow it, they can do that too.

[NanoSector]

That's the whole point in having the option though. For those places that need to allow it, they can. For those that don't need to allow it, and don't want to allow it, they can do that too.

Though a lot of people agree that they are free to remove their accounts, regardless of the law in that country.

I think the switch is something that's against people's privacy. They should be able to remove their accounts and data at any time.

[emanuele]

What's the current default?

[NanoSector]

What's the current default?

I dunno, should I know every default value that ever existed?
PS it wasn't me which originally came with the idea of really reporting this. Don't hit me on it, just giving my opinion on things...

[emanuele]

Don't worry, I'll check if nobody knows by memory!

[IchBin™]

That's the whole point in having the option though. For those places that need to allow it, they can. For those that don't need to allow it, and don't want to allow it, they can do that too.

Though a lot of people agree that they are free to remove their accounts, regardless of the law in that country.

I think the switch is something that's against people's privacy. They should be able to remove their accounts and data at any time.

That is of course your opinion. But there are people like me who think if you sign up on MY site and contribute, those contributions are part of my site. Otherwise I wouldn't let others contribute on my site when content can be removed at a whim. As you can see, we disagree about this. Hence, why there is an option to allow or disallow.

[NanoSector]

@emanuele: Sure, post the results

@IchBin: I disagree with that. It's the content I have posted (just like this) and I have the rights to modify or remove it at any time, regardless of what 1/2 persons (admins) think. It's my content on your site. JMHO.

[WillyP]

The switch needs to stay. It's up to you how you want to interpret the law, depending on what country you live in. Coincidentally, on a forum I co-admin, a user recently asked how to remove his account. If he had been able to do so, we would not have had a chance to work with him to find a solution. As it is we are discussing the issue, and are hopeful a resolution is found. If he insists on removing his account all his posts will remain. Any material, including postings and attachment are considered donations to the site, become property of the site, and cannot be removed. Should the member insist on removing his account, we will have to remove his personal data, change the user name to anonymous or something like that, and change his password.

Another issue I would be concerned about is if a user donates something illegally, then deletes his account. How would the forum owner track this user if the account is deleted? For that reason, I believe an account should never be completely deleted, instead it should be de-activated. The an admin could determine the source of any material donated to the site, and take appropriate action.

A while back on another forum, I had a user who had deleted his account ask for it back. It was a very small forum, not many posts yet, so it wasn't a big deal to tell him to make a new account then I re-attributed his old posts to him. After he then deleted his account again, and again rejoined, I gave some thought to the issue of users deleting their account. And I realized the correct way for users to delete their account is to make a request through a staff member.

If you feel that content uploaded to any site is still yours to remove, you should clarify that policy with the site owner before uploading.

Just to be clear, I would never refuse the request to remove something if there is a good reason to do so. And if you feel it is ok to allow users to remove material at their whim from your site, by all means leave the option set to allow users delete their account.

But I don't understand why you want to interfere with my ability to run my site the way I see fit.

[NanoSector]

I agree with some parts. Again, I'm not the one that came with the idea to report this.

It may cause some problems, I agree, but maybe someone can make a mod or something that requires the user to fill in a form or something.

Though I don't see it as "donations". It's still the content that you've posted so I think it remains the property of the user.

Also I don't want to interfere with the way you do things -- just want to protect you against the law striking back..

Once more, don't take it up against me... Imma poor man which allows people to delete accounts on his forum

[WillyP]

Stop saying not to take it up with you, you are the one requsting this change. I would like to see a link to the law in question. I have never heard of this before. As far as who owns the material, that's up to the site owner to decide.

[NanoSector]

Stop saying not to take it up with you, you are the one requsting this change.

No, it actually is not me. I'm posting this for someone else.

I would like to see a link to the law in question. I have never heard of this before.

* Yoshi2889 goes fishing in his history

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0011468/geldigheidsdatum_18-11-2011#Hoofdstuk6_Artikel35

As for who owns the material, I think it's the user. JMHO.

[IchBin™]

And for the record, SMF will not be the one getting in trouble. It's an option that SMF provides and not something that SMF enforces. It's up to each individual who runs their site to make sure they are upholding the law for their country.  Giving the option to do so, allows all people who use the software to comply with the law.

[NanoSector]

Okay, after some deep thinking I must fully agree with that, even by letting my other statements down.

Guess it indeed is up to the admin to pull the switch.

For me it's solved, now for my friend to think.

[emanuele]

Please let's stay calm.

I would like to see a link to the law in question. I have never heard of this before.

There are two things here:
1) content
2) personal data

I'm not sure why, but I thought the original report was about personal data and that's what I was concentrating on.

As far as who owns the material, that's up to the site owner to decide.

That really depends a lot on the forum.
Just an example: if you write a poem a song or whatever you can claim rights on it. Posting it you still retain your rights and you should be allowed to remove it.

Now, I don't understand a word of Dutch (well, that not entirely true, but still I don't understand 99.999% +/- 0.001 of them ) so I cannot comment on Yoshi's link, but still it can be discussed.

So, first: what are we talking about? Content, personal data or both?
Because in a normal "delete" as far as I remember only personal data are removed.

[Robert.]

Now, I don't understand a word of Dutch (well, that not entirely true, but still I don't understand 99.999% +/- 0.001 of them ) so I cannot comment on Yoshi's link, but still it can be discussed.

Please tell me what you want translated and I'll translate it for you

[WillyP]

Please let's stay calm.

I would like to see a link to the law in question. I have never heard of this before.

There are two things here:
1) content
2) personal data

I'm not sure why, but I thought the original report was about personal data and that's what I was concentrating on.

As far as who owns the material, that's up to the site owner to decide.

That really depends a lot on the forum.
Just an example: if you write a poem a song or whatever you can claim rights on it. Posting it you still retain your rights and you should be allowed to remove it.

Now, I don't understand a word of Dutch (well, that not entirely true, but still I don't understand 99.999% +/- 0.001 of them ) so I cannot comment on Yoshi's link, but still it can be discussed.

So, first: what are we talking about? Content, personal data or both?
Because in a normal "delete" as far as I remember only personal data are removed.

Well... I thought... neither, the OP was talking about removing the account. Normally that would also remove data, but not content, so I could see the answer being data.

I can't read Dutch either and I don't think Dutch law is relevant to me anyway. As to removing content, it really depends on the nature of the site and what you agreed to when you signed up. For example if you are contributing code to an open source project, should you be able to remove all that code if you decide to leave? What about a site that re-sells, say digital artwork, the site may have committed to customers, then suddenly the content is gone? There isn't a one size fits all solution... So we must allow site owners to decide on a case by case basis.