Email form instead of mailto: code

[abinidi]

I'll be really honest. I really like SMF, and am considering using it on my own site. There is one thing holding me back, though: I really really really really really wish that SMF stored emails in the database, and had a webform for sending email messages to other members--thus keeping member's email addresses secret. It would keep them safe from spiders, and would keep them safe from other forum users.

I'm having a really hard time deciding to upgrade, because I think that a forum that doesn't protect email addresses will be seen by my members as a major step in the wrong direction.

Now, I recognize that the two current options are to (1) hide your email address. This is a lousy option, however, because your only choices are to (a) show your address and be able to be contacted via email, or (b) hide your address, and not allow anybody to contact you via email. I want the third option: (c) hide my email address, but still allow the users of the forum to contact me via email. The other option (2) is to download the mod that obfuscates the email address using ASCII (or something). This doesn't accomplish my desired objective of hiding my email address.

Is there any chance that a soon-to-be-released version will include email forms instead of cleartext email addresses? That would be the deal clincher for me!

Thank you all for an otherwise fantastic piece of software.

[abinidi]

I can't use the search function on the site (which is really frustrating, by the way), so I did a Google site search and came up with this thread:

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=18413.0

I guess my response to that thread is this: don't discount the need simply because you find other ways around the problem. The problem exists. Some people use Outlook's block sender functionality. Not all of us use Outlook.

Just because you have found a solution that solves the problem for you doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

I would just beg you to please reconsider including at least the OPTION to use email forms as an alternative to leaving clear text mailto: links all over the forums.


(BTW: I hope this doesn't count as bumping, which I'm not trying to do. I was able to find a relevant thread, so I reposted to this thread. I hope I didn't break any forum rules by doing this.)

[[Unknown]]

I guess my response to that thread is this: don't discount the need simply because you find other ways around the problem. The problem exists. Some people use Outlook's block sender functionality. Not all of us use Outlook.

You can easily configure SMF not to show emails to guests.  Each member can choose not to show their email at all, and use personal messages instead.

I'm using Mozilla Thunderbird now.  Whether I use Hotmail, Mozilla Thunderbird, Opera, Outlook, Eudora, or any other client really doesn't matter.  The fact is that I use a specific client, and accessibility dictates that I should not be forced to use another client just for some dumb website.  My client was designed for my usage of email.  If I'm blind, I may have a client specifically designed for the blind.  If my client is not good enough, and the form-based email would be better, that only means I should get a new client, not that the forum should provide one.

Furthermore, due to spam regulations on the internet, it would be impossible to send email using the sender's actual address.  Instead, the forum's address would have to be used.  Now, imagine if someone were harrassing you... you can block them, but they can just harrass you from forum email relays.  Spammers can also use such forms.  This is precisely what everyone else on the internet concerned with email is trying to PREVENT.  An email should only be sent by the email's actual sender or some identifiable address, not by some proxying service (e.g. a forum, a CMS, etc.)

I'm sorry, but I really can't imagine adding form-based email to SMF being an improvement.  It hurts accessibility, it hurts spam and other blocking, and it's not even necessary because personal messages are already available and widely used.  They can even send notifications to your email address.

However, there are some who feel a form based email feature would be useful.  As current, it doesn't seem like a large number want this, but perhaps the number is high enough to motivate someone to create a third-party modification so people can have the feature if they really want.

-[Unknown]

[abinidi]

So, are you saying that it doesn't bother you at all that SPAM harvesters can easily spider your forums for the email addresses of your users?

I see clear-text e-mail addresses as some kind of gift to spammers. Its like you're shouting, "Here is my address, for the world to see! Please fill my e-mail box with SPAM!"

I understand that an e-mail form isn't a perfect solution, though I don't understand the complexities of all your concerns with it (like the spam regulations on the internet that make it impossible to send email using the sender's actual address).

My site users want to be able to have people send them e-mail. They don't want to have their e-mail addresses as clear text on a web forum. How do we solve this problem? It seems that solution 1 works for some people and not others. Solution 2 works for a different group of people, but not the first.

What about a per-user (and per-site default) setting that allows users themselves to choose a web form or clear-text email contact?

It seems that true accessibility would give people the option to chose what they want for themselves, instead of having an imperfect solution dictated for them (since both solutions are imperfect.)

[Elissen]

Search bots are treated as guests.

Admin, Features and Options, Do not reveal contact details of members to guests.

If selected this option will hide the email addresses and messenger contact details of all members from any guests on your forum

If that's not enough have GD draw an image with their e-mail address in their profile.

And I agree on the personal messages. I use it a lot myself and it works perfectly.

[Rasyr]

Search bots are treated as guests.

Except, I have some forum members telling me that search bots now have the capability to register. Which, if true, means that they can now harvest forums......

[Elissen]

Those are not ordinary search bots like the googlebot. Those are spamharvesters. Having e-mail activation on should be another layer of protection, however it isn't much.

Like I said before, to me it seems that having the webserver send images instead of usable links is the only relalistic prevention against these sorts of actions.

P.S. Old topic you dug up

[Rasyr]

sorry....

But had been looking for pretty much the mod that Epages has been requesting in quite a few threads...

I have already made the changes as suggested by [Unknown] in another of these threads, but I like the email form thing as it is a great benefit for sending quick messages...

[Elissen]

...
I have already made the changes as suggested by [Unknown] in another of these threads, but I like the email form thing as it is a great benefit for sending quick messages...

Why not personal messages? That is what they are ment for. I use them a lot and the interface in 1.1 is really good. And by default they are also send by e-mail.

Having the webserver send mails with your address has some problems (there is some anti-spam thing integrated in the DNS that says what servers can send e-mail for a specific domain. not every e-mail server uses it but it did cause some problems to me in the past)

[abinidi]

Simply stated: this topic is the only reason I didn't switch to Simple Machines.

For my site with my users, it doesn't work to expect them to know how to use Personal Messages in order to contact other site members. Besides that, it requires that I log into a separate site to read the message.

I mean, I have an e-mail client that was designed to let me read my e-mail. Why should I have to log into some other website to read a message that I wanted to read in my e-mail in the first place? 

[Rasyr]

Well, we just moved to SMF. On our old forums (Snitz), I had email addresses hidden, and used a form to send email, where the replyTo had been set to the sender's email.

This means that MY users are already set to accept messages from my server on the behalf of others, and that my server supports it as well.

PMs are not really as convienent as a simple little popup form that you type a small message into and send, as you cannot answer them from the notification email sent out.

I will make do with what I can, but I really wish somebodywould come up with a mod for this (or at least one that obfuscates email addresses - there is a Mod that does this, but it is for an older version of the software.

[mikmik]

Yes, I am going to very strongly agree to adding a mail form for emails instead of a 'mailto' link. Harvesters are really sophisticated, and they can now read such defensive measures as using document.write in javascript.

Not only that, but using mailto, which calls up the email client on a users computer, is unprofessional looking. It just cheapens the experience, and long ago, almost within a couple of months learning to be a webmaster, I realized that the mailto link is a sign of inexperience.

It can hardly be very difficult at all to do this. What would be even better, is a popup that appears with an email form. One of the popular uses, on webmaster forums, anyways, is for people to email attatchments of contracts, images, almost anything that PMs don't handle, and many people like to establish email contacts anyways, instead of using PMs. This makes disabling the email button in admin, or each user's profile, a really unpleasant option.

I very, very strongly suggest that having an email form instead of the mailto link is an important concept.

We are just about to convert our forum at http://www.bandofgonzos.com/ [nofollow] , so we put up a demo to check out on my site, http://mikx2.com/smf/index.php [nofollow] and several people almost immediately mentioned this as unacceptable to have the mailto link on pages.

Even if only members can see it, it is still very worthwhile to have the mail form instead, it just makes the forum better and more respectable.

I am going to put one into my demo, after that I will see if I can make a mod, but I really would insist on this being installed as default anyways

[abinidi]

Hey MikMik,

There seem to be some pretty insistent people who assume because they want to use their e-mail client for every single email they sent that all of us should have to use our e-mail client for every e-mail we send.

These people aren't willing to talk compromise with SMF.

If you make a mod, let me know. I'd be one of the first to try it. Until SMF provides a way to contact users with an e-mail form, SMF is an unacceptable option for my website.

I see this as an option that can be enabled at a site-level. Then in user's individual profiles they can select to either (1) expose their email address, or (2) keep address in a DB, and enable e-mail forms. Then those who want to use their client can. And the rest of the world can have what we want: e-mail forms in SMF!!!

But nobody on the SMF dev team likes my opinion. So I'm counting on somebody writing a mod for this. I'm not a programmer/coder. I couldn't do this if I wanted to. Oh well.

[mikmik]

Haha, I am new to php, and javascript makes my brain spin off-axis

That is a good idea, about the option to use either a form, or stay with the mailto link if the user wants.

First, I am going to replace the link, or just ad one where the mailto link is now, which goes to a form page. Then, I will make the page with a secure form - I have several here already.

All that I can do, and when I get it done, I will at least show you how I did it, like what code to change in what files, but there would be very little at all for that part. Will almost just be a matter of uploading the form page.

Then I will make it into a mod for everyone to use. That part may take a while, perhaps, but I want this form to be done this weekend. I will post here as soon as I do, then we can check it out!

Hey, cool to meet you, abinidi!