Need Opinions From The Community About Which Default Avatar You Like Best?

[Xarcell]

Voting Rules: 2 votes per user; user can change votes; results revealed after your vote; 90 day poll.

Here are some avatars that are being considered to use as default for SMF 2.1. These are just sketches, so they can be tweaked. Don't mind the colors, as they can be changed easily. All of these are vectors that I drew in illustrator.

A couple of thought to consider when voting.

1.| It was suggested that the default avatar should be gender-less for obvious reasons; hence no face & unusual hair.
2.| It was suggested that the default avatar shouldn't be flat in design, because the theme isn't flat.
3.| It was later suggested that the default avatar should be ethic-less for obvious reasons; hence no color & all grey.
4.| It was later suggested it should be a symbol, because you can't really make the default avatar fit all ages, even when gender/ethic-less.

I'll try to post the screenshots or whatever in the order that I made them.

I am also still open to suggestions.

NOTE - 1: I am also making an avatar set exclusive to SMF & it's forks, featuring people of both sexes & various races/colors. You can see two examples in the avatar set above the 2 defaults in screenshot 3. If you prefer a person avatar to be the default, you might want to consider picking one that matches the set that I am creating. Or I may just end up making the avatar sets look more similar to the default person avatar of whichever one wins. The shape of the face is still undecided on the avatar set. I will post variations that I have so far in the next post, it case it influences a persons decision when selecting a person avatar.

NOTE - 2: Which ever wins here might not necessarily be selected as the default avatar for SMF 2.1. That decision still rests with the powers that be. This poll is to merely help narrow down the decision for them. Also, whatever default theme is chosen, it will be placed in the default theme directory, so that a custom theme designer can make his/her own default avatar to match his/her custom theme without adjusting any settings and simply over-riding the default directory one.

[Xarcell]

Here is some screenshot of the avatar set I'm working on in case this influences a person's decision to vote on a person default avatar rather than a symbol. Can't decide on the shape of the face, so there is a screenshot of examples there that I'm working on. Also there is a screenshot of the skin colors that will be available.

If a person default avatar is selected, the avatar set will be most likely made to match, or the avatar will be altered in shape to match the set. Just depends on which looks better really.

[AllanD]

I would say 8 it covers all the bases.

[Matthew K.]

When I was a developer, this was one things I was planning on implementing "into the theme". I was going to have a default avatar, and then a default male, and a default female for those who have set genders. Of your creations, I like the first the best. Maybe mix that up a little to get a default, and then a male / female.

[Xarcell]

When I was a developer, this was one things I was planning on implementing "into the theme". I was going to have a default avatar, and then a default male, and a default female for those who have set genders. Of your creations, I like the first the best. Maybe mix that up a little to get a default, and then a male / female.

This has been mentioned before about having a default male and a default female. However, when you really think about it, wouldn't that just be bloat? Simply because you have to have 3 default avatars altogether, which is redundant in my opinion.

What do others think?

[Suki]

If you are going to include genders you will have to include more than just the female and the male versions thats why I suggested a unique, genderless/"ethnic-less" one.

[AllanD]

If you are going to include genders you will have to include more than just the female and the male versions thats why I suggested a unique, genderless/"ethnic-less" one.

That's why I went with 8 since it is genderless.

[Matthew K.]

Really? Then why does SMF only support "male" and "female" by default...? In that case, we might as well rip that out too.

[Xarcell]

Really? Then why does SMF only support "male" and "female" by default...? In that case, we might as well rip that out too.

I don't follow you.

When you create an account, gender isn't required in most cases. So there is your default avatar. Most people that take the time to select gender, also select their own avatar.

Also, Gravatar is going to be added.

So to me, it's redundant to have a default male & female as well. Bloat. Having a gender selection isn't bloat, so no need to rip that out. Also, not everyone is "male" or female".

Although that's just my opinion. If a majority wanted a default avatar, default male, and a default female, I would make them. I have no problem there. IMO it's a bit too much, and would be better off as a mod.

[Matthew K.]

Maybe it is a bit much - however, my point is that if someone doesn't have an avatar but has set gender to female, show a default female avatar, if someone doesn't have an avatar but has set gender to male, show the default male avatar. Otherwise, if the user hasn't set gender, and doesn't have an avatar pull the default - non-gender specific avatar.

Is an extra condition and two extra images really considered 'bloat' these days? Everybody might not agree, but I think seeing gender specific default avatars is kind of a neat effect.

[Xarcell]

Maybe it is a bit much - however, my point is that if someone doesn't have an avatar but has set gender to female, show a default female avatar, if someone doesn't have an avatar but has set gender to male, show the default male avatar. Otherwise, if the user hasn't set gender, and doesn't have an avatar pull the default - non-gender specific avatar.

Is an extra condition and two extra images really considered 'bloat' these days? Everybody might not agree, but I think seeing gender specific default avatars is kind of a neat effect.

I can certainly see how it can be useful, but I still think it would be better off as a mod. I'm curious to know how Captain Arantor feels about it.

I also just created a new issue on Github, because I think it's time to update the gender selection. Several countries now officially recognize 3 genders. In the case of the gender specific default avatars, your looking at 3 additional avatars if done right. That would mean keeping up with 4 default avatars.

[Chen Zhen]

Xarcell,

  Imo the first 5 images more or less reflect gender due to the detail of the faces, hair, etc. Perhaps that is just my perspective of those examples.

Why not use a more standard non-gender avatar but spice it up with color, shadowing, transparency etc.
Here are some basic examples:
http://www.iconarchive.com/show/origami-colored-pencil-icons-by-double-j-design/yellow-user-icon.html
http://www.iconarchive.com/show/oxygen-icons-by-oxygen-icons.org/Actions-im-invisible-user-icon.html
http://www.iconarchive.com/show/oxygen-icons-by-oxygen-icons.org/Actions-im-user-icon.html

Neutrality:
When/if using skin color perhaps it should be one that does not represent any racial skin color nor those that may typically represent gender. (ie. perhaps a medium green or transparency would be acceptable?)


Regards.

[Xarcell]

What if it was done like this?

Created a set of male & female avatars, with various hair styles, clothing, and skin color. Then a have barebones b/w avatar for the default?

Here are some examples,  and ignore the fact that the male & female have no hair & clothes. Would the default avatar used here work like it is?

[Chen Zhen]

  For the default b&w avatar post some examples in purple, blue or green with some shadowing. ie. the color of the image in the 3rd link I previously posted. It might be a bit more appealing to the eye with some color.  No racial color is represented by ie. purple, green or blue (not unless you beat someone to a pulp).

The overall image now seems more suitable for a default avatar, at least to me anyway.

[Arantor]

Actually, the LGBTI community self-identifies with purple (in the way males are supposed to traditionally identify with blue and females with pink) so that is perhaps a slightly controversial option.

[Chen Zhen]

  I forgot about blue representing males and I never heard of purple representing the LGBTI community although that makes sense if you mix the male/female colors together you more or less get purple.  I don't think any group is represented by green (sexual or racial that is) but I could be wrong. Perhaps a somewhat transparent b&w might be the best option.

[Arantor]

No group *yet*.

[Chen Zhen]

Oh ya... I forgot about those martians.

[Arantor]

Technically green is the colour of the livery of the Betelgeusian fleet, not Martians

[Chen Zhen]

You've never heard of little green men from Mars?

[Arantor]

* Arantor is a huge fan of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Whereupon, Ford Prefect (an alien from somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse) would often get drunk and tell people, especially astrophysicists, that he was just trying to get home by flagging down a passing spaceship, and when asked what colour they were, he would say green because that was the colour of the Betelgeusian space fleet.

[Xarcell]

Adding color to the default avatar could be interpreted into many things, not to mention the branding issues(which I'm big on), so it should remain as it. I also chose that shade of grey so that it would blend in good with the current default theme and it's wingowbg colors. I would actually prefer to make it lighter, but it just won't look right.

The avatars will have a transparent background, and the image background can be styled via CSS. This will give the admin & theme designer's even more flexibility.

@Arantor I've never read the Hitchhiker Guide To the Galaxy, but I do follow the ancient astronaut phenomenon, UFO/USO, and conspiracy theories. I know, call me a nut, I don't care, at least I do my research...

[Xarcell]

I'm not longer contributing to the SMF project.

[Kindred]

why?

[Xarcell]

I kinda been feeling like my contributions are not wanted. I've been trying to help make and get the team to pick an avatar for almost well over 2 months. I'm not saying it has to be something I create, and I'm open to suggestions. I think I proved more than once I take requests. I've tried doing everything I could to push this to get it done. Then on Github, in the default avatar issue it was suggested that something be done about this(not exact words). So I feel as though I was being ignored...

I polished the SMF favicon, made it cleaner and smoother and created a PR for it. That was over 10 days ago. It's just one file, and I even created a screenshot so you could compare new vs old. I don't think I could have made it any easier for someone to make a decision. I've haven't received any feedback from the team on it either: "yes", "fix this", "try this", or "no". As if I'm being ignored.

I kept thinking if I kept pushing, the team who let me help them. I don't understand. If would seem to me that if someone comes along and tries to contribute, you guys would jump all over it, as seeing you need the help. Help me, help you I've asked, but now I feel as though my help is not wanted.

I was fine with all that though. I choose to overlook it and told myself that yeah, it takes more than 1 month to pick an avatar. Yeah, it takes more than 3 days to accept/deny 1 little file.

Then Suki pushed me over the edge today and got me to re-evaluate situation.

I know there are more important things to do. I know everything can't be addressed in a timely manner. I know you guys reserve the right to accept or deny a contribution. However, I start thinking about how much I just's spinning in the wheel here. It's not a productive use of my time, so I've decided to move on.

[Kindred]

sorry you feel that way.

[Suki]

About you contributions, we aren't ignoring you... you're just not that special.... I had PRs that were unattended too, did you see me whining about it? treating to leave the project?

Yes, is 1 file, so? There are things far more important to look at, the default avatar is not a crucial feature so it can and is going to wait until everything else is sorted out.

In all honestly, you're  not the center of the world, your contributions are appreciated but aren't more important than everyone else's contributions.

And now you're blaming me... awesome... just awesome...

So, just to make this clear, you can rant and whine all you want but I cannot respond back? I need to keep my mouth shut and just accept whatever you said?  is that your definition of good leadership?

How are you suppose to handle an entire team of drama queens if you cannot even handle me?

Anyway, I will get to the default avatar, thank you again for your contribution and sorry we couldn't be here for you 24/7 at your service....

also, I would like to add something more.

The way git works allows us to "defer" PRs and pick em back at any time with no real issues, this means a PR can sit there for some time and co-exists with many other PRs without any issue.  We aren't required to merge a PR on the spot or to follow a certain line, thats the beauty of git and its actually one of its strong points.  So no, we weren't ignoring you just because we didn't merge your PR right away...

[Suki]

Also, I was the one who made that comment, it was pretty harmless and I actually was thinking about all the different images you created and how we can get more people to see them and comment about them as I realized both the team and the community didn't really payed attention to this topic.

But alas..... if you like to quit and raise a teenager drama by closing all your reports and PRs on github over a comment and because we didn't treat you like royalty then be my guest.

[Xarcell]

About you contributions, we aren't ignoring you... you're just not that special.... I had PRs that were unattended too, did you see me whining about it? treating to leave the project?

Yes, is 1 file, so? There are things far more important to look at, the default avatar is not a crucial feature so it can and is going to wait until everything else is sorted out.

In all honestly, you're  not the center of the world, your contributions are appreciated but aren't more important than everyone else's contributions.

And now you're blaming me... awesome... just awesome...

So, just to make this clear, you can rant and whine all you want but I cannot respond back? I need to keep my mouth shut and just accept whatever you said?  is that your definition of good leadership?

How are you suppose to handle an entire team of drama queens if you cannot even handle me?

Anyway, I will get to the default avatar, thank you again for your contribution and sorry we couldn't be here for you 24/7 at your service....

also, I would like to add something more.

The way git works allows us to "defer" PRs and pick em back at any time with no real issues, this means a PR can sit there for some time and co-exists with many other PRs without any issue.  We aren't required to merge a PR on the spot or to follow a certain line, thats the beauty of git and its actually one of its strong points.  So no, we weren't ignoring you just because we didn't merge your PR right away...

Don't give me that crap about it being a slow process with git. I see issues that were raised and merged the say day, and there are several that were merged within 3 days recently that changed more than one file. Someone chose not to add my contribution. Yeah, one measly little file is too much effort to give consideration. Great to know. It's not like there is code review.

Sorry, but this process is slow for me.

And I never claimed to be special.

And it's not about the comment, it's about everything combined. I tried to help with branding issues as well before getting shot down. I have done branding for several companies(trying to get number 8 right now). I was even willing to help with updating the business plan. It's not like I'm a team member, I'm just some john doe who was to help and then move on. So yeah, SMF reserves the right not to add my contributions, in the same way I reserve the right not to offer them.

All in all, I don't have alot of time to contribute and I haven't gotten anywhere. I can't sit around waiting on other people over long periods of time. Put yourself in my shoes, would you want to contribute to a project when it takes over one quarter of the year just make one decision? If you do, then your special.

I have a wife & and mean mother in law who both are not native to my country, a teenager, a kindergartner, and I have my own hosting/design/photography business. Don't pretend to know what I can and can't handle. The point is that I do have alot to handle, and I can better spend my time else where. It's just my belief that I should spend at least 10% of my time contributing to a free open source project. I will find some other project who would appreciate my contributions. It's not rocket science.

I've also been a Project Manager and a Business Developer for 3 completely different bona fided companies. Not to mention the 8 years of management experience, and 3 years of supervisor experience that I have under my belt. So when I make suggestions, it's not like I'm talking out of my ass.

Good day to you, and goodbye.

[Biology Forums]

It should always be gender-neutral.

[Suki]

Kudos on missing the point....

I didn't said git  (please do note that I didn't said github ) is slow....  I said that the procedural and overall how git works allows us to work on different PRs at the same time and defer those who aren't that important and pick em up with no reprecussions to the work-flow.

Again, your contributions aren't that critical to the project and can be deferred, thus it were deferred... stop thinking everyone spins around you.... you're not that special... we weren't ignoring you....

For the N-time, you're not special.... you're just like everyone else, sadly, your contributions aren't that critical so its easier for us to defer them. IT DOESN'T MEAN WE WERE IGNORING YOU.

I'll give you an example: https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/pull/722

That is a much much important PR that has been sitting there for over 4 months... have you seen Sleepy complaining about it or treating to leave the project?  NO because he knows we can and will pick his PR when we have the time to work on it....

So please quit the teenager drama. We both are too old for that crap.

I have a wife & and mean mother in law who both are not native to my country, a teenager, a kindergartner, and I have my own hosting/design/photography business

So you have a life, congrats! guess what?  so does EVERYONE ELSE!   I have one too and I still manage to send PRs and on top of that I still need to find time to respond to your suggestions... so no, don't use the "I have a life" excuse on me... it just not gonna work...

The point is that I do have alot to handle, and I can better spend my time else where. It's just my belief that I should spend at least 10% of my time contributing to a free open source project. I will find some other project who would appreciate my contributions. It's not rocket science.

Translation:  I'm a quitter who raised a drama and cannot keep up with it so I will make a lame excuse to leave...  I'm sorry and allow my to be blunt but: grow a pair

I already explained that your contributions were appreciated but you are just using that as a lame excuse so there is no point in actually keep explaining it to you.

I've also been a Project Manager and a Business Developer for 3 completely different bona fided companies. Not to mention the 8 years of management experience, and 3 years of supervisor experience that I have under my belt. So when I make suggestions, it's not like I'm talking out of my ass.

So?  again, you cannot handle a simple and small open source project... you evaded the points I raised and make silly excuses when I faced your opinions.  Do you thing this is drama?  heck! this is nothing compared to the gems in team boards...  you're already quitting and making excuses just because I responded to your opinions... heheheh, you surely will be eaten alive if you were the project manager

Good day to you, and goodbye.

Yeah, see you in a few weeks  

You just love the attention you're receiving, you just love it! if you were to actually leave you wouldn't have made such a big drama out of it, closing all your reports, posting "I'm leaving" messages all over the place... and I'm quite sure you will (or already did) complain about me on all possible forums you can.

I did left one time and when I did, I didn't went all diva like you're doing, I simply left... thats the difference between really leaving and been an drama-diva

It should always be gender-neutral.

Yep, that is what i have in mind