Coordinating themes with mods

Started by TonyG, December 22, 2014, 03:57:32 PM

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TonyG

I'm installing a new v2.0.9. The first thing I did was to get a number of themes that seemed to fit the site profile. Then I started downloading mods. Many mods show errors when going to Install, citing theme conflicts.

So is it my challenge to modify a downloaded theme so that it will install desired mods without error?

I was going to allow users to change the theme for themselves, but with more mods, the number that will install goes way down. So I'm left with just Core and maybe the Default/Curve v2 being the only ones that will accept most mods.

I don't want to allow users to switch to a theme that doesn't have expected features.

So what's the pattern I need to follow here?

Related...

Let's say I install a mod that where tests are successful for the Core theme but fail for everything else. Is it correct that unless I check other themes that the mod will not be installed for them? That's what the checkboxes say - I'm just confirming.

If I work on those themes to see what's wrong and try to get them to comply with the mod requirements, do I uninstall the mod first and then reinstall, checking the newly modified themes?

Again, what's the pattern for trying to progressively activate a mod into more themes?

Thanks!

Kindred

1- the errors displayed will always show you what specific code "failed" to auto-apply...   you then need to go in and manually find the code (which is usually similar, but not quite exactly what the parser looked for)

2- Depends on what sort of themes you want -- the further you get from a curve variant and the more custom templates in the theme, the more likely you are to encounter conflicts.

3- the more mods that you install - the more likely you are to encounter conflicts.

http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Error_in_mod_installation
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TonyG

Thanks for the response. I understand the basics, been using SMF since YABB, just not recently. I'm guess I'm wondering which way most people swing:

- just support one theme
- reduce the number of themes to just 2,3,4
- modify themes for mods
- modify mods for themes
- skip mods just because of the hassle

There's also the reason why specific mods are failing with specific themes. As you said, we need to look for the Find string and see if we can give it what it wants without breaking the theme. But how do we know if a theme is fundamentally not a good fit with a specific mod? It seems everyone installing a specific mod on a specific theme needs to find this out. That sounds like a huge wasted effort.

I think it would be cool to have a matrix of mods and themes, with a pass/fail, and if there is a failure perhaps someone can say what they did to fix it, or if it's 100% incompatible. Taking this beyond cool - when installing a mod it would be ideal if it didn't just fail but queried the matrix to tell us if this is recoverable, and with a suggestion how, or not. That would save admins a Lot of time and help us to get more use out of themes and mods.

Yeah, I know, my idea, so I should code it. Of the many languages that I use I'm not That competent with PHP or SMF internals.

I guess the overall point is that each admin needs to go through the same school of hard knocks without any benefit from the experience of others. Perhaps the next step in the evolution of the installer process is additional help for compatibility issues. Or better/standardized markers for mods to hook into themes.

Arantor

Most people pick a theme for their site and make mods work on that. Having multiple themes on a site dilutes your branding potential.

Then they modify themes to add the changes the mods would have made.

The problem with a matrix of mods/themes is that mod A + theme A might work, but mod A + mod B + theme A might not. Then there's themes not available on the site here. The reality is that it is not feasible to build such a matrix.

This problem is not helped by the fact that there are facilities to improve the odds, but mod authors do not use them.

Burke ♞ Knight

True, Arantor, but even mods that use those, do have a few edits that need to be done.

Also, it's not just theme edits, that can conflict. Sometimes, you will get conflicts in the Sources files that get edited, due to some mod makers selecting more than they really need, to replace with their code, and when they do, they may remove or add spacing which throws things off for other mods.

Arantor

QuoteTrue, Arantor, but even mods that use those, do have a few edits that need to be done.

That implies that mods always need to do edits; I've been known to create a portal and a gallery that requires no edits whatsoever. Including creating new hooks where hooks don't even exist. These things are doable but it requires a level of finesse that most mod authors don't want to put in (and I don't blame them, I'm just enough of a hard-ass to do it)

The reality is that it is easier not to bother, so most of the time people don't.

Burke ♞ Knight

The reality for most mod makers, is that they don't have the knowledge to do so, or they do, but they don't want to go through the effort to do so.

Then, there's the ones that would rather their mods be all that people do, and intentionally make their mods where they wont work well with others.

Arantor

If they don't have the knowledge, that's fixable. I'm quite willing to help people that don't have the knowledge to gain that knowledge. The lack of effort part, I can't fix.

margarett

Quote from: ♞ Burke Knight ♞ on December 22, 2014, 06:40:18 PM
The reality for most mod makers, is that they don't have the knowledge to do so
^^ This. More than anything else, this.

@TonyG, it heavily depends on the MODs, the themes, etc. Some existing MODs could use hooks, less (none) file edits, etc. But generally speaking, MODs that change the templates or how the default theme works/looks might be problematic to have running on different themes.

Quote from: Arantor on December 22, 2014, 06:42:57 PM
The lack of effort part, I can't fix.
LOL :P
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Burke ♞ Knight

Quote from: Arantor on December 22, 2014, 06:42:57 PM
I'm quite willing to help people that don't have the knowledge to gain that knowledge.

That is why, when I post about something I'm working, that I need help with, I am hoping you reply. You have helped me so many times, in coding things that I never would have been able to do, without your guidance. :)

TonyG

Great discussion and insight here. As a looooooooooooooooooooong-time developer I get it. There are no easy solutions. I guess I was just doing a dummy-check to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

About Core+modA+modB ... yeah, I have that in mind as I'm loading mods but forgot in this thread, and yes I can see how that can be a huge pain.

If you see my other thread today on multi-site, single-signon sites, you'll see where I'm going with this. I'm trying to make it easy to setup a number of fairly generic sites while giving sub-admins useful tools for fine-tuning. Each forum will have its own branding- but that was a very good point by @Arantor. I want to give site/forum managers some versatility but given this thread and the issues with mods I need to choose between limiting the number of available themes and limiting the available mods. I guess I'll need to find a balance between the two. I think people are more fussy about look&feel than features so I might start to err on the side of offering a few more themes than mods/features.

BTW, full agreement on personal initiative and people who can/will spend time to get what they want. I publish a lot of FOSS and participate in other areas. I simply can't pick up the SMF gauntlet too, but perhaps I can help contribute by getting SMF in front of more people, and by sending notes to other devs about their themes and mods.

Thanks again.

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