How to stop simplemachines.org email spamming?

Started by ovee, May 05, 2015, 12:15:35 AM

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ovee

I did not use SMF for a very long time ago but I still keep getting spam email notification on this site.

It said:
Quote
If you wish to opt-out, please login to the community and then open your profile here: ovee.
Under the notifications section, you may opt-out. Thank you.

But there are no notifications section.
So, this is SPAM and it is unable to opt-out or unsubscribe!

LiroyvH

The site can't know if you haven't used it for a long time, hence why it simply sends you the notification that you're subscribed to.

It's absolutely not SPAM. It isn't unsolicited to begin with. It might be *now*: so for future e-mails, but it wasn't when it got sent as the system had no way of knowing you didn't want to receive those e-mails any longer. We have good programmers, but we've yet to teach it how to do magic. 

The notifications section won't show up for you as you're in a postcount group that, ironically, has anti-spam restrictions causing multiple profile options to be unavailable. I will remove your preference to receive notifications, so that you won't receive those e-mails anymore in the future.
((U + C + I)x(10 − S)) / 20xAx1 / (1 − sin(F / 10))
President/CEO of Simple Machines - Server Manager
Please do not PM for support - anything else is usually OK.

ovee

Quote from: CoreISP on May 05, 2015, 12:28:06 AM
The site can't know if you haven't used it for a long time, hence why it simply sends you the notification that you're subscribed to.

It's absolutely not SPAM. It isn't unsolicited to begin with. It might be *now*: so for future e-mails, but it wasn't when it got sent as the system had no way of knowing you didn't want to receive those e-mails any longer. We have good programmers, but we've yet to teach it how to do magic. 

The notifications section won't show up for you as you're in a postcount group that, ironically, has anti-spam restrictions causing multiple profile options to be unavailable. I will remove your preference to receive notifications, so that you won't receive those e-mails anymore in the future.

1. Since registered, I'm never subscribed to anything but email keep coming.
2. In the email tell me how to opt-out or unsubscribe but there is nothing there.

2 reason is enough to be spam.

However, thank you for remove preference to receive notifications. If it's really removed. (I can't see)

Douglas

ovee does bring up a good point. SMF (the software itself, and conversely, the site here), by default, turns on "Receive forum newsletters, announcements and important notifications by email." notifications when people register... and since people without that magical post number (on SMF, the site) can't edit their profile... they have no way to opt out of this stuff initially.

IMHO, this is something that SMF should have turned off by a default setting when initially setting up the account. This change should be done both on the site and within the software itself, especially since the US CAN SPAM act does require a double opt in (we can treat the act of registration as the first opt in, and someone physically checking the "Receive forum newsletters, announcements and important notifications by email." box as the second opt in).

Based on what Illori said below, this should be changed for the 1.x and 2.0x branch, since the 2.1x branch allows for more customization of permissions. But still... the default option should be unchecked across the board. :)
Doug Hazard
* Full Stack (Web) Developer for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond
(20+ Diocesan sites, 130+ Church sites & 24 School sites)
* Sports Photographer and Media Personality
* CFB Historian
* Tech Admin for one 1M+ post, one 2M+ post and one 10M+ post sites (last two are powered by multiple servers)
* WordPress Developer (Junkie / Guru / Maven / whatever)

Illori

with 2.1 this will be less of an issue as there are more permissions related to profile edits so users should be able to modify settings like that if it is setup correctly here after 2.1 is installed.

Steve

When I register on any forum, the first thing I do is check all my profile settings which eliminates the emails. Unfortunately, not everyone does that. Especially on a support board.

I do agree, though, that the registration page should have an opt-out option.
DO NOT pm me for support!

Kindred

I understand what you are saying Douglas...  but I have to disagree...   99% of the time, a user won't go to the profile and turn ON the notifications - which means the ones who need to most help and really need the announcement are the ones who won't be getting it.

It defintely will not be changed for 1.1.x, since that is at end of life and will not be reviving any further updates.
It pretty likely will not be changed for 2.0.


and I would argue against setting it to "off" by default for the main reason specified above...
Слaва
Украинi

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

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Douglas

Then do this... put that option directly on the registration page... right under "Allow users to email me".

Would only require minimal changes AND achieve what needs to happen. There are other forum software packages that do the same, FYI.
Doug Hazard
* Full Stack (Web) Developer for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond
(20+ Diocesan sites, 130+ Church sites & 24 School sites)
* Sports Photographer and Media Personality
* CFB Historian
* Tech Admin for one 1M+ post, one 2M+ post and one 10M+ post sites (last two are powered by multiple servers)
* WordPress Developer (Junkie / Guru / Maven / whatever)

margarett

At registration would be the best option IMO. Especially because of the mentioned "US CAN SPAM act".

But Douglas, what the user received was the 2.0.10 announcement (aka Newsletter). And that is a different setting...
Se forem conduzir, não bebam. Se forem beber... CHAMEM-ME!!!! :D

QuoteOver 90% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair

Illori

Quote from: margarett on May 05, 2015, 09:07:25 AM
But Douglas, what the user received was the 2.0.10 announcement (aka Newsletter). And that is a different setting...

actually it is the same setting unless the admin overrides it when sending out the newletter.

margarett

Now we're discussing semantics :P but they are different things
"Allow users to email me" translates to the table columns "hide_email"
"Receive forum newsletters, announcements and important notifications by email." translates to the table column "notify_announcements".

This column has a default value of "1", this is why everyone is subscribed to newsletters by default (as the default registration process doesn't even touch this field...)
Se forem conduzir, não bebam. Se forem beber... CHAMEM-ME!!!! :D

QuoteOver 90% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair

Illori

this topic is not about your email address being visible... that has been removed completely in 2.1.

Douglas

Bruno nailed it exactly. While Admins CAN choose to override someone's settings via the newsletter option, most tend to respect it.

That being said...

Quote from: margarettNow we're discussing semantics :P but they are different things
"Allow users to email me" translates to the table columns "hide_email"
"Receive forum newsletters, announcements and important notifications by email." translates to the table column "notify_announcements".

This column has a default value of "1", this is why everyone is subscribed to newsletters by default (as the default registration process doesn't even touch this field...)
And that's what needs to change... or be allowed to be toggled on the initial registration page... the part that I underlined and bolded. Would be a MINOR layout change and probably one additional variable to submit upon registration. Have it checked, have it unchecked. Doesn't matter to me as long as the end user is allowed to make that choice for themselves, rather than being forced into it automatically. :)
Doug Hazard
* Full Stack (Web) Developer for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond
(20+ Diocesan sites, 130+ Church sites & 24 School sites)
* Sports Photographer and Media Personality
* CFB Historian
* Tech Admin for one 1M+ post, one 2M+ post and one 10M+ post sites (last two are powered by multiple servers)
* WordPress Developer (Junkie / Guru / Maven / whatever)

margarett

Yup, that's what I was referring to.
It's a minor modification indeed and I'll suggest it to 2.1. Heck, I'll pack a small MOD for it for 2.0 if time allows :)
Se forem conduzir, não bebam. Se forem beber... CHAMEM-ME!!!! :D

QuoteOver 90% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair

LiroyvH

CAN SPAM does not apply here... We're not sending commercial e-mails... It might be for some other forums, but not for us.
So we're not forced to offer a double opt-in, unsubscribe link, etc.
We do offer the option to opt-out of these important notifications, of course. But in the way our software has it arranged, rather than how some people demand it. :)

I can get stuck arguing it in a loop to ovee: but the newsletter for release information is not spam, period.

As for options:
I guess an option could be added to opt-out during registration.
For sites like ours I would make it an explicit opt-out during registration rather than explicit opt-in, as the announcements are very important to the users: especially if for example a security vulnerability is found. The sooner people get an announcement whenever that happens, though fortunately it hardly ever happens with us :), the better it is.
But yes, an option to, during registration, instantly select to NOT receive notifications might be quite a good idea. :)

There's the problem of notifications vs newsletters, though... Have to take real good care of that.
So you make the newsletter opt-out, you probably get people complaining who subscribed to topic & PM notifications when they still get e-mailed. :') People will always find something to complain about and instantly label it as spam, even though it absolutely isn't.
((U + C + I)x(10 − S)) / 20xAx1 / (1 − sin(F / 10))
President/CEO of Simple Machines - Server Manager
Please do not PM for support - anything else is usually OK.

Douglas

All I was asking is that it be implemented as a choice for the end user on signup. vBulletin does that, as does phpBB. While it's nice to set our beloved (and favorite) forum software apart from the rest of the pack, there's just some things that should be done because of the logic behind them.

As I said above, have it checked, have it unchecked... just make it available for new registrations for people to decide on their own.... as a standard feature for SMF 2.0.x and 2.1.x (I get why 1.x won't get it) :)
Doug Hazard
* Full Stack (Web) Developer for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond
(20+ Diocesan sites, 130+ Church sites & 24 School sites)
* Sports Photographer and Media Personality
* CFB Historian
* Tech Admin for one 1M+ post, one 2M+ post and one 10M+ post sites (last two are powered by multiple servers)
* WordPress Developer (Junkie / Guru / Maven / whatever)

Burke ♞ Knight

Especially since they can't use the opt out in profiles, until hit the post count.

Quote!!Please be advised that this e-mail is not spam and that you're able to opt-out whenever you wish!!
When you receive this e-mail, it means you registered on our community and enabled receiving notifications and/or announcements.
If you wish to opt-out, please login to the community and then open your profile here: Burke ♞ Knight.
Under the notifications section, you may opt-out. Thank you.

The top is a little misleading, with that magic number in place here. ;)
Yes, I know why the magic number, and agree to it, but it does tend to contradict what the email states.
Maybe a little addition to the line in the email, stating that you need so many posts, to opt out?

LiroyvH

I'm not disputing that it would be a nice addition Douglas. ;) It'll prevent some confusion, and a pretty handy thing to have.
I did campaign for something similar before :P
Was merely disputing the CAN compliance requirement for this site. :)
((U + C + I)x(10 − S)) / 20xAx1 / (1 − sin(F / 10))
President/CEO of Simple Machines - Server Manager
Please do not PM for support - anything else is usually OK.

Douglas

So, will this get implemented on here, as well as put into practice on both the 2.0.x and 2.1.x branches, or will this go the way of the dodo bird (and pretty much any other logical suggestion)?

Not trying to be sarcastic, but still... :)
Doug Hazard
* Full Stack (Web) Developer for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond
(20+ Diocesan sites, 130+ Church sites & 24 School sites)
* Sports Photographer and Media Personality
* CFB Historian
* Tech Admin for one 1M+ post, one 2M+ post and one 10M+ post sites (last two are powered by multiple servers)
* WordPress Developer (Junkie / Guru / Maven / whatever)

Illori

a PR has been made on github https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/pull/2855 no idea how long it will take until gets merged. i really doubt the mod will get installed here due to wanting to keep this install as close to default as possible.

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