Any 2.1 themes that have a built in side portal?

[Biology Forums]

I'm not looking for a built in portal but a column on the side that responsively goes to the bottom like xenoforo themes do in mobile screens.

Furthermore, once 2.1 becomes official, will the changes be so significant that we can't simply update the current 2.1 source and theme files manually? Or, they must all be replaced with the final version?

[Kindred]

While version is still BETA, there is a good chance that there may be major changes.

RC has less of a chance, but is still possible, depending on reported issues.

So -- in short, I recommend NOT trying to develop too much on the beta platform...

[JBlaze]

Furthermore, once 2.1 becomes official, will the changes be so significant that we can't simply update the current 2.1 source and theme files manually? Or, they must all be replaced with the final version?

Updates between Beta/RC and Final versions will always be done via large upgrade packages. This means a complete file refresh. So while you can still create modifications for 2.1, just know that until it goes final, you will have to re-install mods every time.

HOWEVER, if you're not doing any file edits and strictly using the integration hooks, you shouldn't have any issues since integration hooks in use are stored in the database.

[Illori]

HOWEVER, if you're not doing any file edits and strictly using the integration hooks, you shouldn't have any issues since integration hooks in use are stored in the database.

actually in 2.1 and moving forward the hooks get removed from the database when upgrade.php is run just in case they may conflict with something.

[JBlaze]

actually in 2.1 and moving forward the hooks get removed from the database when upgrade.php is run just in case they may conflict with something.

Damn... I have a lot of catching up to do

[Illori]

actually in 2.1 and moving forward the hooks get removed from the database when upgrade.php is run just in case they may conflict with something.

Damn... I have a lot of catching up to do

leaving hooks in place like 2.0 does has caused issues for people that need to use clean files yet dont remove the hooks, so we made a few options to remove the hooks including in 2.1 upgrade.php.

[Biology Forums]

Thanks. So essentially we should put our projects on hold until the final version otherwise all our hard work goes away :-/

Any word on the themes, my first question.

[Deaks]

Shuban, that has been answered believe it or not, no designer will make a proper theme for 2.1 until the structure and major changes are done, most you will get now are variants.  Granted alot of themes out for 2.0 are just variants.

[Biology Forums]

Unfortunately...

I can definitely do without a portal extension given my background in PHP. This is definitely a must, it's the only thing luring me to switch to Xenforo for one of my forums. They do it so elegantly, I'm jealous.

[Deaks]

the time it takes to make a theme and update it is no longer cost viable for most themers today, why you think less people are submitting free ones as they would rather make the almighty buck.  TBH from what I seen of the new XenForo it looks pretty good

[Biology Forums]

True.

The cost of these new themes are relatively expensive, given that the copyright must remain and link back to the author. I have nothing against making money, but if I'm going to pay 85 dollars for a custom theme that does what I want, I'd rather pay the Xenforo forum software for a little more, and get one of their free themes that does exactly what I want.

Not sure I understood your last statement, but to clarify, are you showing distaste for the new Xenforo? If so, why?

[Deaks]

no I am saying the latest release is pretty good

[Bloc]

Shuban, that has been answered believe it or not, no designer will make a proper theme for 2.1 until the structure and major changes are done, most you will get now are variants.  Granted alot of themes out for 2.0 are just variants.

I am not all that worried about possible changes in themes.

Most of them will probably be easy to follow if you have done some themework before. And since it does take quite some time between each beta and presumably any RC/final, you got lots of time to "keep up" too lol.

I'm not looking for a built in portal but a column on the side that responsively goes to the bottom like xenoforo themes do in mobile screens.

Furthermore, once 2.1 becomes official, will the changes be so significant that we can't simply update the current 2.1 source and theme files manually? Or, they must all be replaced with the final version?

What would such a sidebar contain? custom code?

Xenforo seems to put forum items in there..but they make the mistake of keeping the sidebar width when putting on the bottom. Looks strange when its not fluid. (at least on their community site)

[Deaks]

so Bloc where are your free 2.1 themes?

[Bloc]

so Bloc where are your free 2.1 themes?

You might just as well ask "where are your 2.0 free themes"..lack of interest mostly. Thats not to say I haven't seen and tested the code.

But you know as well as I do, that the majority of designers will just make variants anyway. And theres not a lot of designers making themes for SMF currently.

[Antes]

Shuban, that has been answered believe it or not, no designer will make a proper theme for 2.1 until the structure and major changes are done, most you will get now are variants.  Granted alot of themes out for 2.0 are just variants.

ehm... https://github.com/Antes/Lunarfall (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=530264.0)

I'm not making themes for SMF 2.0.x, just doing paid port works. But surely I'll do alot more themes for SMF 2.1 for free in near future. I'm just planing to finish Curve2 first.

[Deaks]

You might just as well ask "where are your 2.0 free themes"..lack of interest mostly. Thats not to say I haven't seen and tested the code.

It was a joke man, same reason why I not made any

But you know as well as I do, that the majority of designers will just make variants anyway. And theres not a lot of designers making themes for SMF currently.

Its been the case for years, even alot of paid ones now are mimics of previous one the author has made.

[Bloc]

You might just as well ask "where are your 2.0 free themes"..lack of interest mostly. Thats not to say I haven't seen and tested the code.

It was a joke man, same reason why I not made any

But you know as well as I do, that the majority of designers will just make variants anyway. And theres not a lot of designers making themes for SMF currently.

Its been the case for years, even alot of paid ones now are mimics of previous one the author has made.

Sorry. touched a small nerve I guess.

Yes, its seemingly only paid stuff that counts now. But even if SMF isn't quite so much used anymore, its still the same software that I find exciting to code stuff for. I guess my "drive" is and have always been, simply to see where it takes me. Some may interpret that as I don't take critic(which I doesn't lol, not the ignorant type anyway)..but I don't really care as long as it give me something in return. (and that something isn't money)

But yes, even recent work is reminiscent of previous stuff. I see that I copy myself(and others) even still..but *good* forum design is tricky. Its a fine balance between keeping the traditionally look and doing something new.

[Deaks]

Bloc, you used to push the boat out in essence with designs that were unlike any others, darn what was the newspaper style one you had for 1.0 that pushed aesthetic boundaries as well as functionality, i look at the ones you make now and they look more like variants of others you made, I look at the ones being advertised for sale from other authors and the look identical to other they have made just new color scheme and a small code change.  For me its shame to see that aesthetically everything looks same as each other.

[Bloc]

True, I have been focused more on rewriting the stylesheet and going responsive, than actually being innovative in the design bit.

But is it any interest in being "different"? Seems like most just want something that looks like one of the major sites...lost count of Facebook and google-like themes that have come and gone lately. I know what I *want* to make of course but have doubts if its any desire for it.

Although it can be argued that being different, is what would make something stand out from the crowd.

PS. I cannot reply to your PM's..you need to unblock me. But to reply(which I prob did over here though) ..the theme you were thinking of was Simplicity perhaps?

[Deaks]

added you to allow list I keep forgetting I blocking all messages.

Anyway, people will never think of expanding to a different style when their are no new unique styles available.  So they are limited to what is about.

[Bloc]

True. Maybe one should approach it from another angle: whats really forums about? Conversations, people, meanings, right? How would you present a conversation graphically if you could do anything?

[Deaks]

well I always like the look of the old comic book theme that did it in a fun way and broke from the standardization that is common.

[Biology Forums]

I remember installing simplicity as my very first theme change when using SMF 5 years ago. #timeflies

[Bloc]

But what was it with it, that attracted you guys so much?

It was essentially a portal'fied theme,pushing elements from each page into sidepanels and had very few graphics. It was..simple lol. Is that something you liked? the simplification?

[Deaks]

I liked it because it pushed the aesthetic value of SMF and that is what no theme is doing now, so no-one is getting inspired to do more than a variation.

[Biology Forums]

But what was it with it, that attracted you guys so much?

It was essentially a portal'fied theme,pushing elements from each page into sidepanels and had very few graphics. It was..simple lol. Is that something you liked? the simplification?

Regarding your latest theme?

* Usage of webfonts
* Usage of fontawesome style icons
* Responsive out of the box
* SimplePortal Friendly
* Options
* Different

[Bloc]

Well, great you described those items and pleased they are indeed useful to you!

..but I was curious about the old Simplicity theme. Attached a screenshot in case we are not talking about the same theme.

[Deaks]

Most def, your older themes pushed the boundaries, now your newer ones seem more about you learning and dont really seem to  have the heart anymore and its a shame, you are thee master of themes always have be always will be, you know I will always be your biggest fan (you were my mentor after all) and its your pushing the boundaries in all aspects that got myself into coding.   Helios if we have to use another was the first real gaming based theme for SMF that also pushed the boundaries in MC.

[Bloc]

Its taken me some time create a base theme..but ShelfLife code feels like it. So yeah, learning one could say, but I feel the latests themes have been more complete in terms of design, more than earlier things.

Pushed the boundaries..I don't know about that though. I favored learning the PHP bit just as much as the HTML/CSS, that made it easy for me to change the templates, especially for SMF 1.1. It looked ok with all those tables no matter what I threw at it.

But looking through my old themes now, most of them seems a bit clunky and odd, tbh.

I guess its a matter of perspective.

[Deaks]

compared to now where your themes pretty much look similar to every other theme, just different coding style and colors, and not really push the boat out as you once did, its nice to see you include new scripting styles into themes, but not new, thats been done since 1.0.

[Bloc]

I hate to disagree with you, since its compliment for me that you like those and consider those styles as great. But nevertheless, its 2015, most of them was made before 2008...

Anyways, I tried a lot of graphic things back then, most of them have NOT been repeated by others in SMF 2.0.What IS popular today and has been for a few years, are copies of popular WP themes, themes from other forum scripts or clones of social media sites. THATS whats popular. Check the curiosity on every Facebook clone we had past years, every time there have been a noticeable interest even if its laughable in itself to have a forum site look exactly like FB..I mean, its not like it IS Facebook just by mimicking its look .. (this is my personal opinion, mind you)

So, making new designs will be a compromise from my point of view.And...my own taste has changed too, it was different 10 years ago.

[Deaks]

But why be part of the trend when you are the one that started the trends before you stopped.

People take theflat themes as that is what they feel is best and is in fashion, how many of these sites that use SMF are noticeable in grand scheme.  Their will always be people who want more classical looks, and the more variety their is the better for everyone, if every theme that gets made is flat style then the variety dies and people go elsewhere.

[Biology Forums]

What IS popular today and has been for a few years, are copies of popular WP themes, themes from other forum scripts or clones of social media sites. THATS whats popular. Check the curiosity on every Facebook clone we had past years, every time there have been a noticeable interest even if its laughable in itself to have a forum site look exactly like FB

You wrote what I was thinking. Let's me honest, Poύνικ, Bloc is right on so many levels. People want to use what they're already used to using. It's the same reason why the whole 'like' idea is so popular in so many different platforms. People don't want to a steep learning curve or any learning curve at all. Bloc is creating themes that will enable dialogue quickly, themes that are easy to use and most importantly familiar.

You're saying why follow the trend? The old saying comes to mind, in Rome, do as the Romans do. Similarly, on the net, if people find liking pictures or content familiar and convenient, why not do the same with forums? You're a) lessening the complication, b) giving people what they want, and c) encouraging a easy, friendly environment for the community to thrive and grow. People always tell me that my main forum is complicated, so I try to envision what would make things easier for people, and many of the accepted trends we see online today do that. They've been thought of and should be used, i.e. using font-awesome, using WYSIWYG editors, using like buttons, modals instead of popups.

[Diego Andrés]

Also the theme site is not following any particular trend, theme authors submit their own styled themes.
Usually themes are inspired or based on some other themes, but also it is not weird to see new stuff coming out.

But yeah, themers activity has decreased a lot on this year. I want to believe that it's because the responsive thing scared some authors and that in 2.1 we will have a huge activity on this area.

[Bloc]

What IS popular today and has been for a few years, are copies of popular WP themes, themes from other forum scripts or clones of social media sites. THATS whats popular. Check the curiosity on every Facebook clone we had past years, every time there have been a noticeable interest even if its laughable in itself to have a forum site look exactly like FB

You wrote what I was thinking. Let's me honest, Poύνικ, Bloc is right on so many levels. People want to use what they're already used to using. It's the same reason why the whole 'like' idea is so popular in so many different platforms. People don't want to a steep learning curve or any learning curve at all. Bloc is creating themes that will enable dialogue quickly, themes that are easy to use and most importantly familiar.

You're saying why follow the trend? The old saying comes to mind, in Rome, do as the Romans do. Similarly, on the net, if people find liking pictures or content familiar and convenient, why not do the same with forums? You're a) lessening the complication, b) giving people what they want, and c) encouraging a easy, friendly environment for the community to thrive and grow. People always tell me that my main forum is complicated, so I try to envision what would make things easier for people, and many of the accepted trends we see online today do that. They've been thought of and should be used, i.e. using font-awesome, using WYSIWYG editors, using like buttons, modals instead of popups.

And here I have been trying to get everyone to step out of the comfort-zone and make innovative themes the last few years..

TBH I don't feel my themes lately are following current trends in SMF themes - but they do look a bit similar to each other though. I think thats more to do with my current taste/interest more than anything else lol.

Also the theme site is not following any particular trend, theme authors submit their own styled themes.
Usually themes are inspired or based on some other themes, but also it is not weird to see new stuff coming out.

But yeah, themers activity has decreased a lot on this year. I want to believe that it's because the responsive thing scared some authors and that in 2.1 we will have a huge activity on this area.

Well, thats the opposite of my impression of the theme site. No-one dares to try alternative layouts anymore.

And I fail really to see why responsive css would suddenly attract theme authors? If anything, its even more to keep tabs upon. Not only creating something new out of a massive index.css file - but you have to make it work responsively too. The 2.1 doesn't do that for you if you plan to step out of the default theme's css. And IMO, theres every need to do that if you want freedom to do what you want.

So my guess is continued color variations on 2.1 too.

[Antes]

well because Curve2 doesn't have a CSS Framework. We are not adding extra code to support things.

[Diego Andrés]

That's up to theme authors creativity...
If they want to get involved into designing or programming some stuff, they also have to learn how to solve problems. Most of theme designers started with a curve variation and with some practice the themes became attractive and different from curve.

I thing that everyone can do great themes, but they have to learn first. So I hope I won't be the only one submitting different type of themes when 2.1 come out so people can forget that five years ago, all themes were practically the same curve variation.

And Curve 2 is already responsive, so I meant that themers can also figure out how to use all curve2 is offering, if they don't like it, they can use any other framework or write their own responsive utilities.

[Bloc]

well because Curve2 doesn't have a CSS Framework. We are not adding extra code to support things.

I am not against that, I favor a CSS framework of own making.

But I have to ask: why are you adding a potentially big chunck of code to use JQuery - but not even consider a CSS framework?

[Antechinus]

Practicality. A lot of mods were using jQuery anyway, and it was causing problems due to mods not checking if themes or other mods were calling jQ first, and also due to mods frequently calling out of date versions of jQ as well as not checking for other mods calling any version at all. The whole thing was getting to be a pig's breakfast.

So, since a javascript library that allowed easy development and use of plugins was what people seemed to want, and since a very good menu system was available for jQ (tested on just about everything imaginable and offering far better accessibility than pure CSS menus) it was decided that what the heck, let's make jQ default. Saves a lot of bother. It's even cached by most browsers already, since so many sites call it from Google CDN.