SMF developer question: How long does it take for mods to be approved?

[Wellwisher]

Developer question: How long do mods take to be approved on Simplemachines.org?

As a new 'SMF mod' developer I am really excited and can't wait to see my mod published. 

It's been two days since I published my mod and it stills says "not approved". 

It's a simple mod, with a little .js, .php, and .css!

[Illori]

they take as long as it takes. those that approve/review the mods are volunteers and do so when they have time.

[margarett]

Due to the Customization Team's RL constraints, the approval process is really stalled for some weeks/months.
It's not ideal of course, but unfortunately it's just how it is...

[Irisado]

It's been two days since I published my mod and it stills says "not approved". 

Even under normal circumstances having a mod approved in just two days would be unlikely in most cases.

[vbgamer45]

Depends more than likely 3 to 6 months. Which is part of the reason why I think the approval process needs to end...

[Antes]

Depends more than likely 3 to 6 months. Which is part of the reason why I think the approval process needs to end...

Such thing will never agreed by team. But even (for sake of argument) if becomes real, then we no longer assure our users they are safe. Horrible event for our name.

Maybe (maybe) we can talk about "trusted developers" program where certain people such as you can get free pass.

[vbgamer45]

I did not mean exactly end trying to get the point across. Idealy just a lot less checks are required to get a mod/theme passing....I have detailed this before in the friends forum.

[Wellwisher]

This is political matter against developers and the smf volunteers. I kindly would rather not get involved feel free to sort this issue out on another thread. To solve my matter,  I made a paid thread:

$50 to the SMF Team volunteer/ moderator to approve my mod within 24hrs:

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=543603.0

This is a serious offer.  Thank you for all your help guys!

[Wellwisher]

Someone deleted my thread? wth. I was helping to speed up this process.

[margarett]

Check your PMs

[Wellwisher]

Check your PMs

Fair enough. Thank you margarett, I didn't mean it as a bribe or offend anyone. People have RL constraints so I was wanted to contribute towards their time. Can you approve it within 24hrs, you also helped me on my past issues especially that wap problem i am still thankful for, I can just pp you. I seriously don't mind, you've been great to me!

[margarett]

I understand but as I told you, it's just not how it works... That's not even a possibility, sorry

[Wellwisher]

I understand but as I told you, it's just not how it works... That's not even a possibility, sorry

Cheers margarett for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if you got my reply message, because it wasn't in my sent messages. I thought members are blocked from contacting SMF staff via PM's or they end up being auto-ignored so I popped the reply above instead.

Again, I would like to stress this wasn't to cause any controversy. I saw SMF accepts donations online via paypal: http://www.simplemachines.org/contribute/donate.php so I felt if my small contribution helped free up some time for SMF staff and lighen their busy schedules, I could donate this to SMF volunteers. They are who matters to this open project. This will not only demonsrate my appreciation but it could also mean other developers mods be approved on the same day. My offer is still open, personally I don't see any harm in it.

[Irisado]

Donations are not for expediting the approvals process, development process, or any other process here.  Money donated to SMF is never used to pay anyone involved in working on SMF or members of SM.

[Wellwisher]

Donations are not for expediting the approvals process, development process, or any other process here.  Money donated to SMF is never used to pay anyone involved in working on SMF or members of SM.

If approval processes take 3 weeks to 6 months, clearily there is a issue with man power. Why not charge a set fee for mod approvals and contribute a precentage of that fee back to the SMF staff... who lets face it, are the blood and life line of your project.
It will bump-up mod productions, contribute funds back into the Simplemachines.org project; developers will be happier and in-return, this will help boost a healthy & thriving 'developer eco-system'. They will pump fresh code back into the SMF project. Happier developers will then convert into new loyal volunteers.

Protecting SMF users against dodgy mods is a great thing but when your approval process is so bad that it puts off new & experienced developers from publishing their Mods... you're decluded. Developers and SMF volunteers are the core life-line of this project and if you hurt this eco-system, it only affects SMF's production and this is evident to me now with SMF 2.1.

You've got a great team and community behind this project, I have warmed to a lot of them. It pains me to see them be buried under a project that can sustain itself. If you have to put SMF 2.1 on hold for another 4 years to get this matter addressed I'd say do it. You guys don't understand the severity of the problems you're creating for your own project. 

[Illori]

we dont pay team members, we dont plan on paying team members. it will never happen. it is not fair if some team members get paid for doing their task they volunteered for and others dont get paid for what they do. even if we were to pay team members unless it was enough to make it worth their time they would not put in the effort. they may also just not have the time to do what is necessary due to real life coming first. you dont know if they are busy or maybe sick or in the hospital, it happens.

[Irisado]

If approval processes take 3 weeks to 6 months, clearily there is a issue with man power.

Personnel or people power, not man power .

Why not charge a set fee for mod approvals and contribute a precentage of that fee back to the SMF staff... who lets face it, are the blood and life line of your project.
It will bump-up mod productions, contribute funds back into the Simplemachines.org project; developers will be happier and in-return, this will help boost a healthy & thriving 'developer eco-system'. They will pump fresh code back into the SMF project. Happier developers will then convert into new loyal volunteers.

In addition to Illori's response, there are few other issues with this.  The first is that money does not equal happiness.  You're not going to make the developers or anyone else happier just by paying them.  It's also worth highlighting that this assumes that developers are unhappy to start with, which is taking a leap in the dark, since I doubt you've had profound personal conversations with any team members about how happy or unhappy they are .  The second is that money does not automatically result in increased productivity.  It's an overly simplistic position to take, as it ignores a number of factors, such as real life matters, the pressure it can bring, the discussions that would have to held about expectations, and the inequality and ill feeling it would create among those team members who would not be paid.

Protecting SMF users against dodgy mods is a great thing but when your approval process is so bad that it puts off new & experienced developers from publishing their Mods

It's slow not bad.  There is a difference, as I'm sure you will appreciate .

[Antes]

@Irisado isn't menpower a term ? or some old sexist thing ?

Please stay far away from "offering" money or asking a loyality "pay-up" program for approvals/development. I personally don't work here for money (which i can say the very same for rest of the team).

[Irisado]

@Irisado isn't menpower a term ? or some old sexist thing ?

It's both.  I just find it anachronistic, given how many women have previously worked and currently work on the Team.

[Antes]

@Irisado isn't menpower a term ? or some old sexist thing ?

It's both.  I just find it anachronistic, given how many women have previously worked and currently work on the Team.

I'm all for gender equality don't get me wrong on that People power it is then...

[Wellwisher]

I like how you guys are open to discussion. The SMF staff have been great to me. They are a nice bunch of people and incredibly smart folks. So I thought, lets not be selfish here, I need to return the favour and contribute something positive back. I didn't know this will back-fire on me. In fact, my mod credits SMF staff and community members who supported me in the past, their names are in all my mod files. I don't like begging so whenever staff or community members helped me, I do my best to help out a few people on support forums.

I am just an excited new developer waiting for my first ever mod to be released.

It feels like I have given birth to a baby but I am waiting on the doctor to cut the umbilical cord but he's saying "Not for another 3-6 weeks but definitely within the next 6 months honey".

@Illori That's true. It's an idea. Perhaps charge for SMF developer annual developer license; which will then cover funding for mod approvals?
From my understanding, if I install a modification from SMF and it screws up my forum, Simplemachines.org legally isn't responsible. But hosting the mods on your site makes users will feel more comfortable downloading them so you ought to charge for this luxury.

@Irisado with much love and respect, don't you feel a business-minded person would disagree on most of your points love? For me it's about attaining results. Workforce can be replaced and out-sourced.

Anyhoo, guys! "Man power" is a figure of speech, but if you wish to take it literally sure, it's all about 'man'. We built this world but as James Brown puts it, "It wouldn't be nothing, nothing, without a womans heart...". Although I think he mean't brains.

[Irisado]

It hasn't backfired on you, we are simply explaining why it's not possible to go down the path you would like us to pursue.  I believe that we have answered that point, so I refer you to previous responses regarding that.

@Irisado with much love and respect, don't you feel a business-minded person would disagree on most of your points love? For me it's about attaining results. Workforce can be replaced and out-sourced.

Referring to me as 'love' serves only to hinder you cause, not to help it.  Considering that most Team members are involved with business in some way and SM itself is a business, I think that it's fair to see that business minded people agree with the stance that has been taken.

[Wellwisher]

Referring to me as 'love' serves only to hinder you cause, not to help it. 

I am from England. We use this term to show love, respect and affection towards people we care about.  It's a bit like you guys saying bro, son, mate, friend and wot have you. SMF is a sexy business that doesn't pay it's employees.  Much love though.

[Illori]

@Illori That's true. It's an idea. Perhaps charge for SMF developer annual developer license; which will then cover funding for mod approvals?
From my understanding, if I install a modification from SMF and it screws up my forum, Simplemachines.org legally isn't responsible. But hosting the mods on your site makes users will feel more comfortable downloading them so you ought to charge for this luxury.

that will never happen. SMF wants to be a part of the open source community, doing what you are saying would push us far away. we are never going to limit who can submit mods unless there is a major issue with that person. we want to help the community to grow and part of that is letting mod authors freely submit their mods for review and approval.

[nend]

IMHO maybe we should have the mod site opened to mod authors.

The approval process can be done by the SMF team and/or our peers.

Say after so many approvals, by other mod authors, a mod is open to the public. But say if another mod author finds something wrong then they may be able to question the mod and report it. Which then would blacklist it until a team member has a chance to verify it. If a author is found to be abusing the system they can have their privileges revoked.

If the problem is software related, due to updating the mod site software, then we should do it in a private board with only authors who can then review and vote on others mods through a poll.

We can make this happen. I'll even help when I can, I have a testing environment and can read code like a second language.

[Irisado]

I am from England.

So am I.

We use this term to show love, respect and affection towards people we care about. 

Not as a tag word at the end of a sentence it isn't.  It means something else entirely when it is used in this way.

Nend:

Thanks for making a suggestion which doesn't involve paying anyone.  It's ideas like this which we can discuss in greater detail.  I'll flag your post to members of the Team who would be able to give better input on this.

[Illori]

Remember, developing a new site with new features is a long process and we have limited resources to accomplish this project. So, if anyone is interested in helping out then please drop me a line via PM or email.

i guess we got a volunteer to help us out.

[Sesquipedalian]

Perhaps charge for SMF developer annual developer license; which will then cover funding for mod approvals?

Like you, Wellwisher, I am waiting for my first mod to be approved. It's taking a while, but I'm okay with the wait. The mod was something I created for my own needs, and then I figured I'd share it with others. Sharing is (one part of) what makes open source so great, so I am glad to do it.

If I'd had to pay in order to submit a mod, I would never have done so. If Simple Machines implemented your idea, the only people submitting mods would be commercial developers. That would hurt everyone. There would be fewer mods readily available, so people would migrate away to other platforms. The SMF community would slowly wither and die. So even if the fine folks who run Simple Machines felt like they could implement your idea, there's no way they ever should or would.

[Wellwisher]

   The approval process can be done by the SMF team and/or our peers.

I thought this was the case already? Well then, it's a no-brainer and one small step in the right direction.

I was seeing these sexy SMF staff member badges: thinking, they are in charge of volunteering & approvals.  Now... I am hearing the team responsible for this is even smaller and you folks have been going with this bs for years? Come on guys, wth. If @Nend never clearied this up, I would have kept assuming wrongly.

If I'd had to pay in order to submit a mod, I would never have done so.

If I knew it would take 2-3 weeks upto 6 months,  I would never published my first mod.

What happens if upon reviewing your first ever mod, they reject it? Congratulations, you're another 6 months in their idiotic approval process and now it's been 1 year since you first set out to publish your mod. When your mod finally becomes available to the public, it looks outdated. Which is our point. When something is fundementally wrong with the system, you need to call in the bs inspectors. @nend's reply just shocked me.

I'll flag your post to members of the Team who would be able to give better input on this.

Prompt them to get this matter sorted over the weekend and you will go down in SMF history and be loved by every SMF developer. We will chaunt your name for centuries to come. People will write songs about you and sing them around camp fires. 

@Irisado do you watch Jamie Oliver, he says "love" it a lot. That's always the context in which I use it. 

[nend]

@wellwisher

Whining never solved anything and it sure isn't going to make things get done faster. Not saying I never whine myself but one has to know when to give up once they know for fact it isn't going to do any good.

I am in middle management, so what can we do differently to solve the problem? You take it from there.

@Illori

If you still need help coding a new mod site system, I'll lend my time when I can.

[Irisado]

   The approval process can be done by the SMF team and/or our peers.

I thought this was the case already? Well then, it's a no-brainer and one small step in the right direction.

I was seeing these sexy SMF staff member badges: thinking, they are in charge of volunteering & approvals.  Now... I am hearing the team responsible for this is even smaller and you folks have been going with this bs for years?

http://www.simplemachines.org/about/smf/team.php

That tells you who does what.  There are also some members from other teams who can approve mods.

[Steve]

@Irisado do you watch Jamie Oliver, he says "love" it a lot. That's always the context in which I use it.

She was obviously offended by it so apologize and let's move on.

[Illori]

@Irisado do you watch Jamie Oliver, he says "love" it a lot. That's always the context in which I use it.

She was obviously offended by it so apologize and let's move on.

he

[Steve]

Wait. What? Okay, now I'm surprised. Don't know why, I just am.

[Wellwisher]

@wellwisher ...one has to know when to give up once they know for fact it isn't going to do any good.

@Nend, you have a point. I recieved the following message from @vbgamer45 who everyone knows for being a much respected figure-head amongest the SMF developer community and SMF in general. This guy is proper experienced, well-established SMF mod developer who talked about my very issue a year ago. Thousands of people download and use his modifications and if they ignored this poor dude, you're right let's just call it a day here tbh.  No offence to your much respected position in middle management, to change anything, you either have to be the person in charge or working at the top. Otherwise, you'll just be another @vbgamer45 repeat incident.

What i posted a year ago to the team...

I have been saying this for years but the customization approval process must be a lot simpler if we are going to retain any future talent. This topic will discuss a couple different things I see just want to get it out there.

Throwing out some raw stats:
Over 4000 mods have been submitted to the mod site based on mod id's
Out of 4000 mods there are 1990 that are visible less than 50%...
Something seems very wrong where are the modifications going or are they just never being approved?

Based on searches on the modification site:
199 x 10 pages = about 2000 mods
91 x 10 = 910 mods for SMF 2.0.x
115 x 10 = 1015 mods for SMF 1.1.x
Unique mods SMF 2.0.x and SMF 1.1.x = 157 x10 = 1570 mods

Out of those above are
27 x 10 = 270 mods are either avatars/smileys which don't really fit as a code based modification so the total number drops down to about 1300 modifications for SMF 2.0.x and SMF 1.1.x.


Main concern is most mods lately to be either BBC buttons, or minor theme changes. Hardly any major/large mods in the last year, I maybe see one or two just based on the latest submissions. With about 100 mods in the last year that are approved/visible. And I am thinking this is due to the modification approval process.


As a SMF mod developer the approval process pains me. I get excited about an idea build a modification for SMF submit it, then wait, get feedback, update it quickly, then wait more things found then wait again weeks.... It just really tires me. I am sure I am not the only one that experiences this and it has been like this for a while years.

This issue just increases the more complex the modification is and is why I do not like submitting any large mods to the mod site and probably how others feels as well. This then leads me either to release the mod on my own sites as free or paid or just give up.  I was thinking about doing a mod recently but have put it on the back burner/never now because I just do not want to deal with the whole approval process . Which would be having me to reduce the feature set to such a small amount to cause the least about approval issues for myself.


If we are going to keep these guidelines as a hard rule then way more needs to be spelled out on in the guidelines http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Customization_approval_guidelines An easy way to do this would be take all mod the rejected reasons and make a list based on that.
If we have certain rules/coding styles every single one should be spelled out and shown/referred on mod submission.  Just remember not everything is perfect and with software nothing is perfect.

My current view on how I believe what the mod approval process should be is the following:
-Does the mod install/uninstall cleanly
-Does the mod work?
-Does it use SMF functions such as the built in database functions?
-No hardcoded language strings
-No security issues
-No sql in template files
For 2.1 encourage/require hooks where it can be done but you will have to have sample examples to show users it is a different concept to teach users. I am one of the first mod creators to have mods for 2.1 using almost all hooks in most cases such as in ezPortal.


As developers we know most of the rules and how SMF works but new people to SMF do not! And it takes a while to learn it all, from couple months to years if they stay with it. From PHP,Database,html/xhtml,CSS,javascript,and now jquery.  For myself if these same rules were applied to me back then I would have given up and SMF would have lost out. I do not want to see that happen we have to fight to get any modder/developer today due to increased adaptation in mobile/social networking meaning forums have a smaller role. We have to do a better to encourage people and not scare them off..


Also tempted to ask to rejoin the customize team to work on changes  from new procedures, new modsite, approval polices, but time is my issue along with getting people to agree on certain aspects of it.

Changes need to happen now not a month from now. Each user/developer we lose either goes to other software or just gives up. It's an easy fix and you can easily repm passed mod submitters which might be a good thing to do once 2.1 is released as well. Just needed to vent about this.

[Kindred]

That's all well and good for him to have his view on how things should be done.

He's not on the team... therefore his view on how he wants things to be done is really nothing but smoke.
If vbgamer wants to rejoin the team and  move things forward (after discussing it with the PM and the rest of the team) then he should send Suki a message. Otherwise, however, what he sent to you in PM (and what you shared which was a "personal" message as opposed to an open post) really doesn't matter all that much.

Changes need to happen...  yeah. OK... who is going to make those changes? Hmmmmmm?? Last I checked out developers were (quite correctly) focusing on the 2.1 code.

And all your whining about how long it is taking to review your mod is just wind....

[Steve]

@ Wellwisher ... was that a PM and did you ask vbgamer if it was okay to post it? Just curious.

[Wellwisher]

That's all well and good for him to have his view on how things should be done.

He's not on the team... therefore his view on how he wants things to be done is really nothing but smoke.
If vbgamer wants to rejoin the team and  move things forward (after discussing it with the PM and the rest of the team) then he should send Suki a message. Otherwise, however, what he sent to you in PM (and what you shared which was a "personal" message as opposed to an open post) really doesn't matter all that much.

Changes need to happen...  yeah. OK... who is going to make those changes? Hmmmmmm?? Last I checked out developers were (quite correctly) focusing on the 2.1 code.

And all your whining about how long it is taking to review your mod is just wind....

@Kindred I already got my answer from Illori 6 months to a year for a mod approval. That's all well and good. I can't click on "problem solved" since no feature exists on this section.  It's now a case of what we can do 'differently' (as nend mentioned) or what will help you guys speed up this process. This thread has become an open discussion thread. The issue is no-longer about me. As I have already got my answer. I may not be happy but it is what it is, right?

I reply on occasion to other responses, Vbgamer also has valid points; other members do not have access to reading it from friends section so I dropped them in here.

I apologise if this confuses some folks as me whinning - a colorful term. I won't reply to this thread again, to help alleviate this "confusion". As mentioned to Steve, I am done with being a gangster Smf developer. There's no glory to be had.

You agreed changes need to happen so if someone of your high-stature can influence this change, it will be most welcomed by others in the distant future.

@ Wellwisher ... was that a PM and did you ask vbgamer if it was okay to post it? Just curious.

@Steve Vbgamer's post is already made public in a friends developer section on SMF. He basically copied and pasted it to me.

What got to me is that @vbgamer has the ability to develop even more fun, complex SMF modifications but because of this slow approval process, he doesn't enjoy going through the hassle. Like me, I was set out to contibute positively. I thought it will be an exciting new venture for me. It will also be cool to see other users download, comment and read user feedbacks but all I got in return was a bunch of drama and politics. Now I am almost certain, my mod will gather dust for the next 6 months to a year, who knows possibly more. Had some fun developing though.

I am grateful that we actually have the mods that we have atm given this situation.

[live627]

Vbgamer's post is already made public in a friends developer section

Only visible to a handful of people.

[Irisado]

Vbgamer's post is already made public in a friends developer section on SMF. He basically copied and pasted it to me.

Did he give you permission to post it in a public board which can be viewed by all members of the community and guests as well?

[Illori]

@Kindred I already got my answer from Illori 6 months to a year for a mod approval.

i NEVER said how long exactly it would take to get approval. so you are wrong there. i said it would take time as we are volunteers but i never said it would take 6 months or a year to get approval.

[Bloc]

@Kindred I already got my answer from Illori 6 months to a year for a mod approval.

i NEVER said how long exactly it would take to get approval. so you are wrong there. i said it would take time as we are volunteers but i never said it would take 6 months or a year to get approval.

True.

VBgamer stated it took 3-6 months - without any real explanation of how he came to that figure.

Later Wellwisher stated 3 weeks to 6 months..and now its 6 months to a year lol. It keeps getting longer the more its mentioned!

[Antes]

@Kindred I already got my answer from Illori 6 months to a year for a mod approval.

i NEVER said how long exactly it would take to get approval. so you are wrong there. i said it would take time as we are volunteers but i never said it would take 6 months or a year to get approval.

True.

VBgamer stated it took 3-6 months - without any real explanation of how he came to that figure.

Later Wellwisher stated 3 weeks to 6 months..and now its 6 months to a year lol. It keeps getting longer the more its mentioned!

Actually we are not approving mods, a magical unicorn visiting our site in every 6 months and approving mods...

* antes feels he spoiled something...

[live627]

Pony! Don't go!

[Colin]

The customization team has been rather busy with real life things in the past few weeks. Things are starting to clear up now. You should hear back soon if you haven't already on any submitted mods . Thanks for your patience.

[Wellwisher]

@Kindred I already got my answer from Illori 6 months to a year for a mod approval.

i NEVER said how long exactly it would take to get approval. so you are wrong there. i said it would take time as we are volunteers but i never said it would take 6 months or a year to get approval.

That's true, I must call in my "bad there" folks, my apologies.  @Illori said it would take as long as it takes - so I put together a worse case scenario of 6 months from VBgamer statement.  I added another 6 months because the likelyhood of new developers getting their mods wrong would be high. Hence 6 months to a year.

3 to 6 months is what @VBgamer mentioned. He is an established developer and since he goes through this process many times back and fourth - there's no reason for me to doubt him. 

[Kindred]

Well, it's not actually a very valid statement. He was exaggerating, a lot.... And your exaggeration of his was well and truly a silly statement

It depends on the current customization team...  But also on whether the mod has issues that need to be fixed.  For example, several of dougiefresh's mods were approved right away, since they were cleanly coded and covered all requirements.  Other mods take months of back and forth because the mod author can't seem to get things right or take their own sweet time fixing the issues reported by the team

[Steve]

That's true, I must call in my "bad there" folks, my apologies.  @Illori said it would take as long as it takes - so I put together a worse case scenario of 6 months from VBgamer statement.  I added another 6 months because the likelyhood of new developers getting their mods wrong would be high. Hence 6 months to a year.

Misquoting is bad form, as I'm sure you realize now.