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Author Topic: Re: SMF and PHP 7  (Read 23318 times)

Offline jvter

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2016, 05:59:42 AM »
It is **FAR** too early to be forcing folks to jump from php 5.x to php 7.   Hopefully, it is just a matter of the host offering it as an option.   

If they are truly making it a requirement, when most of the planet is still cautiously thinking about making the jump from 5.4 to 5.6, I would dump that host.  Such a move is capricious and disruptive, IMHO.

The website of PHP says that version 5.4 is EOL already for more than 1 year (http://php.net/eol.php), On the other hand 5.6 is still supported with security updates until 1 January 2019. (http://php.net/supported-versions.php). So I agree abandoning 5.6 is a bit premature.

Offline shawnb61

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2016, 09:37:34 AM »
There are different sets of php version stats out there, and most suggest php users lag behind a bit...    If it works, don't fix it...

Less than 2% are on php7 in 11/2016:
https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/all/all

Drilling down on php5, most are still on 5.3 (26.1%) & 5.4 (25.7%):
https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/5/all

Only 18.6% have made the jump to 5.6 as of 11/2016.


On the other hand, if we've learned anything over the last couple of weeks, it's that polling methodology is critical...  This guy uses a different technique, shows a much higher php7 adoption rate, but even in this rosy picture, php7 adoption is only ~20%:
https://seld.be/notes/php-versions-stats-2016-1-edition


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Offline live627

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2016, 06:26:28 PM »
and https://wordpress.org/about/stats/ suggests a little under 4%...

IMO, people running Composer are developers/enthusiasts and are likely to be using recent releases.
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Offline riou

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2016, 08:37:00 PM »
It being low now doesn't mean it will be low in the future, especially if the big Hosts start upgrading then all of a sudden those %'s change.

On top of that if you're going to upgrade, what is the downside to just going to the newest that will End of Life the latest versus going up each 0.x tier and having to upgrade again and again in the same period of time.

Offline shawnb61

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2016, 09:29:59 PM »
That question has been answered earlier in this thread.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Offline vivien

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2016, 03:35:09 AM »
It is **FAR** too early to be forcing folks to jump from php 5.x to php 7.
All great software are PHP7 compliant and PHP7 consumes fewer resources for a web host. It is for this reason that many hosts will force PHP 7 in 2017.

Offline Kindred

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2016, 07:26:31 AM »
not any decent host....
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline 青山 素子

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2016, 06:02:08 PM »
The website of PHP says that version 5.4 is EOL already for more than 1 year (http://php.net/eol.php)

Unless you're on a Linux distro that is LTS, in which case the packager would be supporting by backporting fixes. For example, RHEL 7 is going to be supported with bugfixes until 2024, and it included PHP 5.4. (As a result, CentOS 7 will have the same fixes.)

All great software are PHP7 compliant and PHP7 consumes fewer resources for a web host. It is for this reason that many hosts will force PHP 7 in 2017.

What kind of "great software" are you talking about? Does it cover all the various products people use, or just a small set of popular stuff?
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Offline Arantor

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2016, 02:40:18 AM »
Fun fact: the platform I maintain at work has the same issue and that powers a business with a turnover in the millions of dollars range. And I guarantee you will have heard of our customers.

But we are stuck with the same problem and not even time to fix it (and we have 7 people in our dev team, paid to work 40+ hours a week)
To assume is to hope that those who came before had the presence of mind and capacity to implement the dreams of those who would come after.

Offline jvter

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2016, 05:44:53 AM »
To bad, the Mod makes SMF  MySQLi compatible, but that seems not enough: SMF becomes invisible (or is it possible another modification is not compatible with the added MYSQLi support)
Anyway, looking into another forum is also an option of course, phpBB maybe?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 06:17:35 AM by jvter »

Offline Arantor

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2016, 06:09:09 AM »
It's quite possible a mod isn't PHP 7 ready.
To assume is to hope that those who came before had the presence of mind and capacity to implement the dreams of those who would come after.

Offline wintstar

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2016, 09:47:33 AM »
phpBB  3.0.* - 3.1.10 work not with PHP 7. Only the upcoming version 3.2.*

Offline shawnb61

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2016, 11:17:52 AM »
I did a bunch of research a while back to help me decide what to do to my environment.  The stats above were the result, php7 is still very sparsely supported, and I couldn't find anybody pushing it any time soon. 

Of course, there are always exceptions...   

The *ONLY* exception I could find was this, a 3rd party article that claims that the Wordpress folks want to push php7 in 2017:
https://wptavern.com/wordpress-to-bump-recommended-php-version-from-5-6-to-7-0-by-the-middle-of-2017

Given that more than half of all sites are still on 5.3 & 5.4, I think this qualifies as a noble aspiration...
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Offline jvter

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2016, 02:49:39 PM »
phpBB  3.0.* - 3.1.10 work not with PHP 7. Only the upcoming version 3.2.*
Hm, Just installed phpBB 3.1.10 running with php 7.0 .......

Offline shawnb61

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2016, 04:33:24 PM »
phpBB didn't support php7 until 3.2.    Check their support threads for potential issues, you might have an issue lurking there. 





Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Offline Deprecated

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2016, 11:07:21 PM »
Being familiar with Matthew's previous posts although I don't know him except by his posts but I feel that he not only has noted important points, but has paid his dues in asking the questions he asks.

I know of no hosting services who require PHP 7 although of course you could install it on your dedicated server. I'm running a later PHP 5 version on both my shared hosting service and on my dedicated server, with no problems.

The developers have enough on their hands to get 2.1 released, and I feel it is unfair to burden them with PHP 7 at the same time. I feel that anybody who has a problem with the progress of 2.1 should either buck up or volunteer to help the devs. My personal preference would be I'd prefer 2.1 released without PHP 7 rather than released later because they had to make it work with PHP 7.

If you disagree with me, cite one hosting service that does not offer PHP 5. While you are at it, don't tell us you built your dedicated server with PHP 7 and are whining that SMF doesn't work. Just reconfigure to PHP 5 or 6 and wait until the VOLUNTEER developers get 2.1 released and start working on PHP 7 compatibility.

Offline Suki

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2016, 11:31:10 AM »
Just want to clarify. SMF2.1 IS compatible with PHP7, the one that needs compatibility is SMF2.0.x.

And for the record, I'm not opposite to people asking questions, its the forms and the severe misinformation that has been spreading around.

However, what I am frustrated with the most is with people more than capable of helping out who instead prefer to just sit on their high thrones and start demanding things to get done the way they want it, when they want it.  It also completely baffles me the way former contributors just automagically forget how slow and complicated things are around and inside the organization and how once they are out, suddenly SMF and everyone on it are a bunch of lazy bastards who are always completely wrong. Completely forgetting or perhaps conveniently ignoring, that they were once a part of SMF  and their efforts (or lack thereof), for better or for worst, had contributed to the state SMF is today.

I know I am giving my best, while others preferred the easy way and quit, I decided to stay and keep the torch lit. That alone will keep me away from ******ing and whining to future SMF team members because I will know I did the best I could and I will be in peace with myself and what I accomplished.


But anyway, theres currently 3 major "milestones":

- SMF 2.1 Beta3
- SMF 2.0 PHP 7 compatibility.
- SMF 2.0 maintenance.

SMF 2.1 Beta 3 is ready, it was postponed to take care of the recent issues with 2.0.12 patch. But thanks to our awesome contributors it is still been developed quite nicely, I will never get tired of expressing my gratitude to them.

SMF 2.0.x compatibility with PHP 7 is been worked on, a preliminary patch has been tested and worked on. The real work is getting the full install to be compatible. It is semi-postponed until the issues with the .12 patch gets fixed.  We've been also thinking whats the best course of action to take regarding PHP 7.1/7.2 too. Yes, theres not only the issue with been compatible with PHP 7, we need to also think about 7.1/7.2 and the deprecation of create_function().

SMF 2.0.13 has been created to fix the issues on .12 as well as other issues reported since then, its currently been tested on.


Can we be more open?  yes of course we can, thats not the issue. The issue is, and always has been, lack of manpower.  Heres a recent example and I can now telling this because it is no longer feasible to fulfill it.

Our inner roadmap, decided back in June, included releasing .12 that month, followed by Beta 3 two months later and PHP 7 compatibility at the end of the year. Starting 2017 with 2.1 RC1/Beta 4.  As you can see, none of that was fulfilled on time.  Several factors influenced it but the bigger ones was lack of time and lack of manpower.

We simply can't shout out our plans because it doesn't depend on us to fulfill them. Also, theres a bad or bad situation here:

Bad if you aren't open.
Bad if you are and cannot fulfill the expectations.

We just chose the "Lesser of two evils" option, it will be utterly demoralizing to publish your agenda and then failing to fulfill it, (it already is pretty demoralizing failing to fulfill an inner agenda) not to mention the pressure from the community will increase.

TL;DR: we aren't open to preserve our sanity.
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Offline d3vcho();

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Re: Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2016, 12:47:08 PM »
IMO, with this answer, this topic can be locked. All my doubts got clarifed with that message. No need to keep on with this discussion :)
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Offline live627

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2016, 05:51:42 PM »
Quote
we need to also think about 7.1/7.2 and the deprecation of create_function().
This is a very tricky one, seeing as SMF 2.0 is filled with calls to that. How do you plan to change all those calls? Suppress the deprecation notices?
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Offline Deprecated

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Re: SMF and PHP 7
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2016, 06:22:51 PM »
Note that people who have the ability to help out often do not have the necessary time to donate to the project. Family and career often supersede.