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IDEA: A very different way to get your SMF...

Started by Gwydion Frost, November 30, 2005, 04:11:16 AM

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SMF Update (or SMFTP)...

...don't matter to me.
5 (17.9%)
...could be interesting...
11 (39.3%)
...don't matter to me.
4 (14.3%)
...is a HORRIBLE idea!
4 (14.3%)
...is a programming nightmare!
4 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Gwydion Frost

I have found (and am excited by) the simplicity of SMF, the ability to tweak it being easy, the concept of a strong simple skeleton at it's heart making a great foundation upon which to build the meat of the user's needs.

What I would enjoy seeing, is a continuation of this idea...build the strong skeleton which can handle the random assortment of programming that each individual would like to incorporate into their own personal site.

I would suggest a unique and different approach in downloading SMF. (Y'all are gonna love me for this one...)

For those who've had the joy of Windows Update, I point out HOW they have the Update site structured.

You pick your components, checking them off a list, and then download them.

I would propose, to begin, that SMF be offered in the same manner.

Base structure, stripped of all extra parts, and then a checklist of the MODS, PACKAGES, THEMES, etc, that you would want to include.

Pick and choose components to your heart's content, then...

Hit the button that says "DOWNLOAD NOW".

Into your hands, a personalized customized SMF, already set to install.

Using the package manager, one could then update in a similar manner...picking the new features, or patches that you need to impliment. You could even program into the package manager to bring you to an Update/Install page (SMFTP?) to remotely do all this, from within the program itself!

So, am I out of my mind, or would something like this, UNIQUE amongst all the other programs out there, be a feasible option for a future release?

Grudge

Making updates easier is something that we are continuingly striving for, and I'd hope to be able to offer the next release in an easier upgrade method. Auto-update is always too much of a risk though in my mind, upgrades should always be instigated. I think we may one day offer the option of what themes etc to install at point of install. The same could in theory be true for modifications, although this is considerably more complicated in keeping up to date from a development point of view.
I'm only a half geek really...

Gwydion Frost

Well, in my defense, I didn't advocate an auto-update feature...LOL

I agree with you...updates would be something YOU should chose to do. In one aspect, the package manager, when implimenting the changes, could temporarily lock your board until it is done implimenting the changes downloaded from the SMF site.

I dunno, it's a neat idea, I thought. Definitely sets the package apart from the rest of the pack, even moreso!

Gwydion Frost

So, anyone else have any comments or ideas inspired by this rather unique way to package and customize SMF? Anyone like the concept of an SMFTP?

Arcath

It woudl eb a good idea, but te pagage mnager in SMF makes it reaally easy to install packages anyway. and i didnt start looking into mods untill i had a running forum and thought i could do more to it... and if some has aload of mods 2 begin with then if they want to unistall them they dont have any of the none modded files to reference form if anything goes wrong

Gwydion Frost

Well, of course, the option to un-MOD the forum would be something to consider...also could be accomplished by the SMFTP concept.

My point being, the latest and most stable of the modifications...official mods, if you will, would be on the list. Beta testing would be absolutely a manual install...

Leipe Po

well i kinda miss the copy and paste jobs, loved them and still do, its good to know the code your dealing with, i once started out with (forgive me for saying) phpbb, and as soon as i saw the potention of the software, i went and download it, copy and past jobbies are also easyer to deal with when you forum is heavely modified, like mine on www.phpscripters.net , am in the prosses of intergrading my whole site in it, without the loss of portabillaty, and stuff,

this also brings out the subject that if somebody cooses to update, all the "custom" stuff they made are at loss, cause it will onley upgarde if its a official mod,
so i for one(and geuss the only one) are for downgrading the update system to just a copy and paste job
There is only one thing more importend to me then coding:
My Girlfriend

Microsoft - "You've got questions.  We've got dancing paperclips."

Gwydion Frost

Naw, you wouldn't lose your custom stuff...

After all, you have it someplace already, right?

More importantly, however, is that instead of using the online update /mod feature, you could still download onto your hard drive and do it the old fashion way. It is for the ease of those who are looking for a "set standard" of features that this would be for, not the unique seeker, who desires to twist the code into something the developers here can't even recognize as their own baby...LOL

Let's face it, there are a lot of posts to trouble shoot things that, to be honest, are covered easily in the installation guides, or just a matter of common sense.

This kind of feature would make those a thing of the past.

Leipe Po

well i think, if the end user gets more involved with the code it adds to their self confidence, and as result, support forums would have less overload, and the user is getting more and more developing,

so the benefits of a copy and paste job:

less support, more development
There is only one thing more importend to me then coding:
My Girlfriend

Microsoft - "You've got questions.  We've got dancing paperclips."

Thantos

Quote from: Leipe_Po on December 01, 2005, 04:15:59 PM
so the benefits of a copy and paste job:

less support, more development
You are assuming that the team members that are here for support would be doing development if we weren't doing support.  This isn't the case.

I like the suggestion GwydionFrost, though it may be more work to implement it then its worth.

Lepie_Po:  I think most of the users really have no desire to mess with the code.  But they are always more then welcome to make the changes manually.  There are plenty of topics here detailing how to do so.

JayBachatero

I would have to agree with Mike.  This was one of the reasons why i ran away from phpBB.  It gets annoying trying to add features that most forums have by default and then after wards find out that after you spent a few hours in modifying the files that it doesn't work like it should or you just broke your forum.  I prefer click click click done.  That's all it takes, three steps.

Also this will raise more support issues due to the fact that peopl breaking their forum left and right trying to add a simple modification.
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HoTmetal

Quote from: JayBachatero on December 01, 2005, 04:47:22 PM
I would have to agree with Mike.  This was one of the reasons why i ran away from phpBB.  It gets annoying trying to add features that most forums have by default and then after wards find out that after you spent a few hours in modifying the files that it doesn't work like it should or you just broke your forum.  I prefer click click click done.  That's all it takes, three steps.

Also this will raise more support issues due to the fact that peopl breaking their forum left and right trying to add a simple modification.

Click, Click, click is always nice. SMF has come ALONG way from yabbSE when board mod was the way to install mods & upgrades were done via FTP. I think the point Leipe_Po was trying to make is, the more a user uses SMF, the more they want to learn/know.
Though many users are just people who want an out of the box forum, there are a bunch of site admins who dig into the code & have at it. <I think both of you (Jay & Mike) can releate> Then there's people like me, who don't know PHP very well, who find out how things work by breaking them, then struggle to get tham back again ...hehe

GwydionFrost has a good point. SMf is heading down a simular road. If you notice in the back end, you can see what the newest ver. of SMF is & can upgrade as needed.

Gwydion Frost

QuoteI think the point Leipe_Po was trying to make is, the more a user uses SMF, the more they want to learn/know.

Hey, I'm one of those who likes to piddle around with it, myself. However, I do this on a totally separate board that won't crash my main one. I'm fortunate that my set up allows me this.

Most folks that I know, however, don't want to piddle for hours to get their forums up and running correctly.

SMFUpdate or SMFTP would be the solution for them. Most of the programming for this would actually not be a part of SMF at all, but instead would be a feature of the Simple Machines website...

JayBachatero

I find out things by trial and errors most of the time.  The worst thing is that I use my live forum for testing most of the times w/o backups.  :-\  This is how I learn the bit of PHP that I know.  I believe it's a great idea but it will just make support even harder and stressfull.
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Leipe Po

Quote from: JayBachatero on December 02, 2005, 09:05:53 AM
I find out things by trial and errors most of the time.  The worst thing is that I use my live forum for testing most of the times w/o backups.  :-\  This is how I learn the bit of PHP that I know.  I believe it's a great idea but it will just make support even harder and stressfull.

and your on support? i allways test things on my local testing server, before i upload to my web server, and am a backup freak, 3 times a day an automatic backup is placed on my pc by my ftp 'script', but for the sake of not going offtopic,

i think smf has alot to offer to alot of people, fromple that  barly can type ther e-mail address, to expert php pogrammers/scripters,
if smf will contieu to do this, it may well exceed invisionboard(by mod's its allready exceeded), so maybe put some development packages on this site to?,
like onley the x.0 versions(like 1.0) and if ther is a securety patch, just announce a copy&paste job so people will get notyfied ?(with developers i mean in defeloping ther own site and not the board), but we must learn to walk bofore we can run, so take it easy on development, and post copy & aste jobs  :P
There is only one thing more importend to me then coding:
My Girlfriend

Microsoft - "You've got questions.  We've got dancing paperclips."

HoTmetal

BTW. It took awhile, but I finally voted ." is a GREAT idea! " , though I also feel it "could be interesting" Tough call. But it would be neat

Leipe Po

well i'm the one who voted: is a programming nightmare!,
cause it will be
There is only one thing more importend to me then coding:
My Girlfriend

Microsoft - "You've got questions.  We've got dancing paperclips."

Sheepy

#17
Mod conflict comes into mind... plus most mod only works with default theme.

But the component installation shouldn't be that difficult - make an installer that get theme & mod list from smf, click to download, click to install & setup core, click to install mod 1, click to install mod 2, etc.  Display error message when appropiate and continue.  Sounds good.

Lysanda

I too escaped from phpBB because I knew next to nothing about php and implementing mods like that was a nitemare.
Since then I've had a few SMF boards and know enough php to keep them alive (though with my latest one there seems to be a whole cartload of problems which need addressing, though I suspect that might be more to do with the server than the software).

The feature that drew me to SMF is the fact that most of the 'usual' mods come as standard.. and the rest are uncomplicated to install.  I've also found that support here is more readily available than on phpBB's site.. which is a distinct bonus when you're up in the middle of the night with a broken website lol.

I voted that it could be interesting.. because I'd like to see where it could go.
The Online Psych Ward = http://dysfunctional101.com

redone

I think its always a challenge to code something that performs well and delivers what everybody wants. Afterall, we all want very different things from our forums don't we?

The current focus of simplicity together with easy customization via mods is an excellent idea. Bloc has already demonstrated with his version of Helios pre-mod which detects certain mods and installs accordingly shows what can be done with theme's.

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