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[3.0] Redo the theme system for SMF (2.1+ obviously)

Started by Vekseid, June 29, 2009, 01:11:54 AM

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SleePy

Quote from: 青山 素子 on September 23, 2011, 06:21:03 PM
I use NoScript. It helps with a lot of intrusive JS. If I really need to, I can opt-in to the JS on a site.
+1
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Antechinus

Can't remember the actual figures offhand, but last time I checked the percentage of people browsing with js disabled was very, very low. Somewhere down around the level where even fussy people wouldn't consider supporting an obsolete browser.

Ricky.

Quote from: SleePy on September 23, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
Quote from: 青山 素子 on September 23, 2011, 06:21:03 PM
I use NoScript. It helps with a lot of intrusive JS. If I really need to, I can opt-in to the JS on a site.
+1
Though here are many people who love to browse sites without JS but I actually love sites with suitable ajax implementation. I am against using Ajax just for fancy and also against those who just keeps adding JS on and on to make their site look cool !!!..  but what I think, it should be used to make site Work Cool/

bloc

So..what about redoing the theme system..or is "something-more-AJAX-here-and-there-would-be-cool" all you got?

Ricky.

I am happy with current theme system, you are far more experienced, what do you say about redoing?
Quote from: Bloc on September 25, 2011, 02:58:01 PM
So..what about redoing the theme system..or is "something-more-AJAX-here-and-there-would-be-cool" all you got?

bloc


Ricky.

Ah.. then my mistake.. though I thought you are asking me !

Quote from: Bloc on September 25, 2011, 03:53:29 PM
Not my call, I was asking the topic starter.

bloc

No :) maybe I should more clear on that, sorry..but IMHO this topic is going nowhere when you start that age old AjAX-or-not discussion again. That has always been, and still is, a question of UI layout - not of whether it can be cool to add it or not. But I digress...I believe the ball is now back to the topic starters corner(if he is still there ;D )

Vekseid

Had no idea this was replied to...

Quote from: Bloc on September 20, 2011, 07:00:14 PM
Quote from: Vekseid on June 29, 2009, 05:44:30 PM
SMF's theming is its most widely criticized weakness. There's a reason for this, it would be awesome to see it addressed.

It is? Whats the reason for that, in your opinion?

People who complain about it are generally pretty specific - that it's obtuse to design themes for. This in and of itself could be fine, if it was in fact not so obtuse as to say, require you to edit one of SMF's most criticals file just to alter the menu.

Quote from: Antechinus on September 23, 2011, 05:17:34 PM
Does anybody actually disable js these days? [Unknown] was musing last year that we should really be requiring js these days, because of the obvious benefits (security being one of them).

None that aren't either a) bots or b) using something like noscript. It wouldn't be any upset to require it.

Quote from: Bloc on September 25, 2011, 03:53:29 PM
Not my call, I was asking the topic starter.

I have no idea what you're referring to. Not once in this thread have I mentioned AJAX.

Most of what I discussed in my first post is still fully valid, two and a half years later. For example: What are PM options doing as part of theme options?

Right now, though, I'm working on my own software based on what was discussed for the Youracore project. I'll continue to work on SMF optimization notes and such as long as my forums still run SMF, but my vision for communities is not shared by the team here. Which is perfectly fine, but I don't feel like getting heated over it.
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spiros

What I would love to see, would be a way so that themes (design), is completely separated from functionality. I.e. mods do not interfere with theme code directly, but only through hooks (so that mods install automatically on any theme, rather than having the admin mess up manually with the code). Most CMSs work that way, would this be impossible for a forum? Isn't this something worth striving for in our case?

Kindred

yes and no...

it is a worthy goal - however, one of the things that makes SMF so powerful IS the full theme design.

Hooks are good... but not everything can be handled with hooks. Even wordpress (which is nothing but hooks) add-ons occasionally need template file updates (Which makes theme updates annoying)
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.<br /><br />"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

spiros

Even in that case, IMHO there should be some effort towards simplifying the procedure or minimizing theme-specific edits. Some mods require editing for 5+ or 10+ theme files which is too much really. Joomla for example is a favorite with designers and it offers great extensibility without theme-editing (or with minor theme editing). I think this is one of the major reasons that account for its popularity: great availability of well-designed themes which do not mess with functionality.

By the way, I cannot create new topics on this board...

Illori

Quote from: spiros on March 08, 2012, 10:18:46 AM
By the way, I cannot create new topics on this board...

only team members can create topics in this board for several reasons.

Kindred

as I said... it is a worthy goal and is being looked into (as has been mentioned several times in this thread and elsewhere).

The introduction of hooks was a good first step and we all know that more hooks need to be added, but that is different from "themes (design), is completely separated from functionality".
It's really not possible to do that "completely" while still keeping the full functionality of the SMF theme system.


Joomla is actually moderately limited in what you can do with the stock theme designs...   when I ran a joomla system, I was continually editing the theme template files in order to get them to do what I needed.

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.<br /><br />"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

spiros

Which was the last Joomla version you used? Apart from standard Joomla features and the versatility they afford, there are some theme frameworks out there with amazing versatility straight out of the control panel (i.e. Warp, T3, Gantry frameworks).

mark87

Any chance they will bring back the 1.1 ability to change the background image easily in themes ? I always thought that was a very cool option.

Arantor

No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented


Arantor

Some themes actually offered that as an option - easy recolouring straight from the ACP.
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

Antechinus

Ah. Inline styling. It'd be easy to do in 2.1 or any version since it's just a custom theme setting. Which brings to mind an interesting question.

If the mod guidelines get stricter and outlaw inline styling, what happens if someone write a mod to give recolouring from the admin panel? In fact, oh dear, how exactly do membergroup colours work, and how are they going to work in future?

TBH, if you want to do a good job of things like that in future versions, or even in 2.1 FFS, you'd use the setting to assign a class rather than force a colour inline. This would be no more code for Sources but far more flexibility for themes. Having stuff in Sources is fine, as long as it's accessible to themers in some way. Currently, far too much of it isn't.

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