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Started by FragaCampos, February 27, 2013, 03:17:56 PM

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Arantor

And then the team will demand there be another interim version in the years in the meantime, which is how 2.1 came about in the first place (seeing how smCore was supposed to be 3.0)
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AllanD

I would much rather wait a little longer for 3.0 then to keep getting 2.1 is coming out soon.(which we all know it isn't going to be soon)
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Arantor

3.0 hasn't even been started. 2.1 is already 3 years in the running. The team seems surprised that I suggested we wouldn't see 3.0 before 2020.
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Kindred

Arantor,

Please. Enough with the doom saying.

If it comes to be 2020, you can say "I told you so"
Until that time, please give me (and the rest of the team) some credit.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.<br /><br />"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

AllanD

I read that and it makes sense, if you ask people on niche forums why they don't like SMF. The number one answer is they are too slow and falling behind other software. Only good thing is mybb 1.8 it's anything to right home too.
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Arantor

Why should I give you some credit? Everything that has gone on in the last 5 years absolutely supports my position, and before you give me the 'everything's changed' line, there's plenty of evidence to debunk that too, including an example only yesterday that nothing has, indeed, changed.

Same old merry-go-round. I will give you all credit when there is something to give you credit FOR.
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Kindred

Sorry, Arantor... but you are just plain wrong. Time will eventually tell which of us is right - but until then, there is no evidence either way. I claim that you are wrong, you claim that you are right...   and we'll just have to disagree until one of us has ACTUAL proof....   and this continual harping is starting to really get my goat.
I don't have any issues with you, your conversational style or stuff that you've done... but you're starting to cross the line when it comes to the doom , doom, doom.

Think what you want, but please stop saying it in every single thread when anyone discusses 2.1 or 3.0.

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.<br /><br />"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Arantor

There is only no evidence if you're going to pretend that past evidence is utterly irrelevant in predicting future behaviour. I can't predict the future, but I can examine what is going on *now* and make a judgement based on that.

When I see strange changes that have not had serious testing, or indeed any testing, being applied, I begin to wonder.

When I see multi-page discussions about changes of terminology (just like yesterday so it's not a new thing), I begin to wonder.

I have to keep bringing this up because too many people keep pretending there isn't a problem or trying to ignore it. Or there's misrepresentation of the scope of the problem.

This topic is a great example. The feature request isn't going to happen until 3.0 happens, because of the scope lock on 2.1, not to mention that the design physically can't support it anyway. But given the situation that bred 2.1 is going to happen again unless you absolutely veto a 2.2 (and given you were a strong proponent of 2.1 as an interim release, I'm sceptical of this as you can probably understand)... even if 2.2 gets vetoed (which strikes me as unlikely), 3.0 cannot happen until 2.1 is finished, which means it won't start design until next year, realistically. Then it'll take at least 2 years to build, another 2 for in-fighting and then we start getting to 2020. This is what happened to 2.0. This is what has happened to 2.1 to drag it out to 3 years and counting so far. I see no reason to presume anything different is going to happen going forward. As such I think it's only fair to give people a realistic view of when this feature is likely to appear in an SMF mainstream release.

I realise you don't have any choice but to defend SMF against my comments, but even so, this smells an awful lot like quelling dissension by way of censorship, since the unstated-but-implied consequence is that if I continue to state my opinion based on experience of this project, I will be limited in what I can say and where.

Don't ask me to be complicit in this. Don't ask me to pretend there aren't serious problems.

Don't ask me to be silent for your sins. Give me cause to sing your praises instead.
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Kindred

WHAT SINS?  I have committed no sins recently and, as the investor groups always say: past performance is no indicator of future performance...

as for 2.2 - it was originally part of the plan - when we had a separate team working on SMC and a separate team working on interim releases... in other word,s we could do the work in parallel because they were not overlapping resources.  THAT was the whole concept of the 2.1, 2.2, 2.x release structure.

Since SMC is dead, and 3.0 will be worked on the the current dev, there will be no further interim releases and all the focus will be on working on 3.0. That's what I have called for and that's what the Devs want to do... so we're on the same track here.


And no.... What happened with 2.0 and 2.1 is not what you describe at all. What happened with BOTH releases was that we had complete turnovers of the dev team (several times - for a variety of reasons). So, once again, you are approaching your argument for a skewed point of view.   (leaving aside why they left) If we had emanuele and spuds finish the release of 2.1, it would likely have been out last year. That didn't happen... and then you joined up and blasted in a bunch of extra stuff - I am not saying that you were wrong to do so - but by doing so, you did extend the dev cycles. and once again, you left, leaving your stuff 75% done... If you had stayed on to finish what you put in, there is a good chance that 2.1 would be in beta now.  I am not blaming you or emanuele or spuds for anything...  (although I AM blaming Norv for abandoning and killing SMC) merely explaining WHY it has taken the time that it does.

We're all volunteers.  If we were paid employees, I could demand results... but since we're not, we take the time and effort that people have to give to the project. However, the current crew is very strong and I have every confidence in them. I'm sorry to see that you don't....
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.<br /><br />"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Arantor

QuoteThat's what I have called for and that's what the Devs want to do... so we're on the same track here.

We're still months away from that, and I'll believe it when I see it, specifically because I do not have faith that the team collectively won't demand a 2.2 knowing full well the time it would take to actually build a complete rewrite, plus all the in-fighting about how it's different to what's been done before.

Arguing the hypothetical what-if is largely a waste of time. What if they had? What if all the crap in 2010 hadn't happened? What if... what if... what if we stop worrying about what might have been and concern ourselves solely with 'where we are right now and where we are going from here'?

Yes, if Spuds and Ema had finished it, it probably would have been finished last year, depending on how much time and effort was spent in bug testing and bug hunting.

Yes, I put in stuff that I genuinely believed at the time was necessary. Yes, I'm aware it extended dev time, but it was still on course for 3 years even with the feature set as it was a year ago. In all likelihood what I did has not significantly changed anything because if I hadn't put in those extra features, there's still the many, many bugs that needed fixing. But we'll ignore that little part of what I did, because all I did was ignore the feature lock, obviously. Then again it depends on whether you care about pushing out a well tested and decently bug-hunted solution or not. Maybe I just have higher standards I expect to see.

I also see that nothing I said back in February has been taken on board about why I can't work with this team, which I'm perfectly willing to accept as my fault. Most things are anyway. Most things I touch seem to end up worse for my interventions, why shouldn't this?

You forget: my entire platform for joining the team was NOT to work on 2.1 at all. I felt pressured by the team into working on 2.1 in the first place. But that's because I believed 2.1 was stable enough to be a base for rebuilding into 3.0 and it took me way too long to realise that simply wasn't the case.

And the fact that the moment 2.1 is done, it's effectively obsolete because there's never going to be anything more than maintenance. No extra features. Probably not even bug fixes for the most part, reverting back to standard policy. (Again something brought up by the 2.1 comments, as from what I saw of it, not positively received)

I truly wish you the best of luck at this point. You're going to need it.

* ‽ adds another board to the list of things to ignore, knowing that nothing he says is worth listening to here, so will avoid seeing topics, therefore no provocation to say anything. Everyone's a winner.
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Oldiesmann

Getting back on topic...

1. SMF 2.1 is not currently feature-frozen, despite what previous devs have said (different lead dev, different rules ;)).
2. This is definitely something I'd like to see in 2.1. Whether or not it gets implemented mainly depends on how much work is involved in doing so. I believe it should be fairly easy to do, but haven't had a chance to look into it. I should have time to do that in the coming days though.
Michael Eshom
Cincy Space - now open!

dougiefresh

Ever since I saw this thread a few days, I've been working to integrate the idea into my Enhanced PM System

I started with the bit of info provided here (Thanks, emanuele!)  I've got most of the obvious stuff done, with exception of listing the recipients of the sent PMs....  I'll also have to make some changes to support the other functionality of the mod within the search function (sigh)...

Maybe it'll be ready in a few days....  Can't tell.  Best part is that I'll be able to release it as a seperate mod apart from the EPS....  Anyway, I hope this helps someone....  or at least gives some hope  :P


FragaCampos

Good news indeed!
Thanks for putting your hand into this, dougiefresh. I'll be one of the first testers for sure! ;)

It's nice to see people still struggling to maintain SMF going, but it's a bit sad to see and read the discussions everywhere between devs. I just hope SMF gets back on track and to the not so old glory times.


Quote from: dougiefresh on June 23, 2014, 06:17:45 PM
Ever since I saw this thread a few days, I've been working to integrate the idea into my Enhanced PM System

I started with the bit of info provided here (Thanks, emanuele!)  I've got most of the obvious stuff done, with exception of listing the recipients of the sent PMs....  I'll also have to make some changes to support the other functionality of the mod within the search function (sigh)...

Maybe it'll be ready in a few days....  Can't tell.  Best part is that I'll be able to release it as a seperate mod apart from the EPS....  Anyway, I hope this helps someone....  or at least gives some hope  :P

dougiefresh

Mod submitted today....  Search Sent Personal Messages (PMs) (Unapproved)

Also got this mod, with more modifications to integrate with the rest of the mod, into the Enhanced PM System.  Not yet released, but still working on a few other things....

dougiefresh

Just wanted to let everybody know that the mod has been approved!

Antechinus


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