Simple Machines Community Forum

General Community => Site Comments, Issues and Concerns => Topic started by: Jeff Lewis on July 27, 2009, 11:37:01 PM

Title: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 27, 2009, 11:37:01 PM
I can't seem to find it in my profile the ability to delete a profile.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 12:10:27 AM
Why would you want to do that darls? That's just silly.

/me hugs Jeff
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Reflection on July 28, 2009, 12:24:04 AM
What the hell, Jeff?
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 12:51:12 AM
I was just reading over a complaint from the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) (http://www.cippic.ca/en/) and a report (http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_008_0716_e.cfm) from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada (http://www.priv.gc.ca/) and something that stood out to me was the section on Facebooks account deactivation and deletion (http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_008_0716_e.cfm#sect7a) so wanted to see how SMF was handling this as Facebook is in contravention of Canada's privacy law PIPEDA (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/P-8.6).

So was curious how SMF was handling this option. Apparently in the case of Facebook "The Commissioner's office have been working with representatives of Facebook on this issue. Facebook have 30 days to show evidence that they are making an effort to comply with the recommendations."
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Norv on July 28, 2009, 12:55:10 AM
There is an apparently straightforward option in Profile > Actions > Delete this account. I wouldn't try it though.
*peers at the post count*
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 12:57:29 AM
Quote from: Norv on July 28, 2009, 12:55:10 AM
There is an apparently straightforward option in Profile > Actions > Delete this account. I wouldn't try it though.
*peers at the post count*

Do you see that on this site?
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Norv on July 28, 2009, 12:58:42 AM
Sure thing. By "Actions" I mean the third tab, on the Profile page.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 12:59:42 AM
SMF is not a Canadian based business, therefore those issues wouldnt apply unless they apply here.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:01:40 AM
Quote from: Norv on July 28, 2009, 12:58:42 AM
Sure thing. By "Actions" I mean the third tab, on the Profile page.

I know what you're talking about but it's not there for me.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:01:58 AM
Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 12:59:42 AM
SMF is not a Canadian based business.

Neither is Facebook.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Eliana Tamerin on July 28, 2009, 01:04:20 AM
It's karma, dear. ;)
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: JBlaze on July 28, 2009, 01:04:56 AM
Here you go, Jeff. Have a blast :)
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 01:05:51 AM
Well like I tell the people in Europe trying to sue me for the same deal: Get yourself a lawyer here, and I'll see you in court :).

Of course, one day they will, and I'll have to go buy a dress or something :-X.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: SleePy on July 28, 2009, 01:06:44 AM
Jeff the link is indeed there.  I even checked with a test user that has the same permissions as you.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:07:55 AM
Here you go JBlaze, learn to read, it's not there for me.

(https://www.simplemachines.org/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewisonline.ca%2Fsandbox%2Fl2read.jpg&hash=c15f27c9f79d8d0f4440c4ab565a7934c2949e0e)
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 01:09:13 AM
Awwwwwwwwww


SMF loves you SO MUCH that even the software can't let you go!

:D
Easter Egg XD





Quote from: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:08:34 AM
Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 01:05:51 AM
Well like I tell the people in Europe trying to sue me for the same deal: Get yourself a lawyer here, and I'll see you in court :)

I can get a lawyer if need be I suppose...

LOL no need to go THAT far
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Norv on July 28, 2009, 01:10:15 AM
Please eventually check out the attached picture.

I don't fully remember, but the option to delete account may be configurable differently for each membergroup...
*scratches head, too tired or too lazy to check at this time*

EDIT: oh well, cross-posted.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:10:31 AM
That was meant to go to Pms..oops :-P
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:11:05 AM
Quote from: Norv on July 28, 2009, 01:10:15 AM
Please eventually check out the attached picture.

Yeah, check my picture above.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Norv on July 28, 2009, 01:12:53 AM
Nice!
Someone's having some debugging to do, I guess
*snickers*
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Amacythe on July 28, 2009, 01:13:12 AM
Jeff, I've checked your profile, and double checked.  There are no restrictions.  SleePy set up a clone account with the exact same membergroups, and he was able to remove his account.  I just don't know what else to tell you.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Rumbaar on July 28, 2009, 01:14:04 AM
I can confirm I have access to that option in my profile, as an SMF Friend.  I'm sure it's set to admin approval though.

Do you have team access?  Looks like some kind of deny option for a membergroup you're access too is overriding the option.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Eliana Tamerin on July 28, 2009, 01:14:42 AM
Quote from: SleePy on July 28, 2009, 01:06:44 AM
Jeff the link is indeed there.  I even checked with a test user that has the same permissions as you.

Except for that.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 01:16:23 AM
IT'S AN EASTER EGG!!!!


SMF LOVES you Jeff :D.

I told you!!
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:17:12 AM
Weird...an individual setting perhaps?

I'm off to the states tomorrow anyway, will check when I get back. Thanks for looking into it.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: SleePy on July 28, 2009, 01:41:11 AM
How is that Jeff?

It appeared the post group you where in didn't grant you permission to delete your own account.  This has been fixed.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Norv on July 28, 2009, 01:43:51 AM
Super heroes cannot just leave!

Sounds quite fair to me.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:56:40 AM
Thanks, I didn't see an option to remove my posts but wipe those out too when you remove the account as they are clearly not important.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 02:06:26 AM
Please don't. There are some I refer back to.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Reflection on July 28, 2009, 11:07:26 AM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 01:56:40 AM
Thanks, I didn't see an option to remove my posts but wipe those out too when you remove the account as they are clearly not important.

:(
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Orstio on August 01, 2009, 07:50:19 PM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on July 28, 2009, 12:51:12 AM
I was just reading over a complaint from the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) (http://www.cippic.ca/en/) and a report (http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_008_0716_e.cfm) from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada (http://www.priv.gc.ca/) and something that stood out to me was the section on Facebooks account deactivation and deletion (http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_008_0716_e.cfm#sect7a) so wanted to see how SMF was handling this as Facebook is in contravention of Canada's privacy law PIPEDA (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/P-8.6).

So was curious how SMF was handling this option. Apparently in the case of Facebook "The Commissioner's office have been working with representatives of Facebook on this issue. Facebook have 30 days to show evidence that they are making an effort to comply with the recommendations."

Awesome to see that our gov't is doing something to protect us from FaceBook's privacy issues.

Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on July 28, 2009, 12:59:42 AM
SMF is not a Canadian based business, therefore those issues wouldnt apply unless they apply here.

FaceBook's policies infringe upon Canadians' right to privacy.  This all occurs within Canadian borders.  If they do business across borders, they need to be prepared to deal with the laws of the countries in which they conduct their business.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 04, 2009, 07:43:40 PM
Meh my account wasn't deleted so I reactivated it at the request of some ex team members, current team members, and even one PM.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on August 04, 2009, 07:44:17 PM
<3 you Jeff :D
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Norv on August 04, 2009, 07:45:44 PM
Cheers!
Welcome back, if I may say so :)
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: JBlaze on August 04, 2009, 09:14:24 PM
Welcome back Jeff.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: 青山 素子 on August 05, 2009, 02:14:05 AM
We're seriously glad you decided to change your mind. Welcome back.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Arantor on August 05, 2009, 06:00:49 AM
Good to see you're staying. You're more than a friend in this community.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 07:20:35 PM
That's why it says "SMF Friend" :P
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Arantor on August 05, 2009, 07:21:37 PM
Quote from: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 07:20:35 PM
That's why it says "SMF Friend" :P

Jeff isn't just a 'friend' of SMF... he's more than that - a lot more.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on August 05, 2009, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: Arantor on August 05, 2009, 07:21:37 PM
Quote from: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 07:20:35 PM
That's why it says "SMF Friend" :P

Jeff isn't just a 'friend' of SMF... he's more than that - a lot more.


Yeah, he's our eternal slave who fetches us ice drinks and massages our achy shoulders :P

(Kidding Jeff, I love you really!!)
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 08:34:31 PM
Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on August 05, 2009, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: Arantor on August 05, 2009, 07:21:37 PM
Quote from: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 07:20:35 PM
That's why it says "SMF Friend" :P

Jeff isn't just a 'friend' of SMF... he's more than that - a lot more.


Yeah, he's our eternal slave who fetches us ice drinks and massages our achy shoulders :P

(Kidding Jeff, I love you really!!)

LOL awe, that's sweet.  I bet the reason he's not replying is cuz he's getting you some drink ... hm jk jk :P
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 05, 2009, 11:08:17 PM
Quote from: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 08:34:31 PM
LOL awe, that's sweet.  I bet the reason he's not replying is cuz he's getting you some drink ... hm jk jk :P

She's quite the slave driver...
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 11:18:43 PM
 * Jade hides whip
Jade: What are you talking about

jkjk
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on August 06, 2009, 01:34:38 AM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on August 05, 2009, 11:08:17 PM
Quote from: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 08:34:31 PM
LOL awe, that's sweet.  I bet the reason he's not replying is cuz he's getting you some drink ... hm jk jk :P

She's quite the slave driver...

But you love me right?! RIGHT?! ;D
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Yigal on August 06, 2009, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on August 06, 2009, 01:34:38 AM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on August 05, 2009, 11:08:17 PM
Quote from: Yigal on August 05, 2009, 08:34:31 PM
LOL awe, that's sweet.  I bet the reason he's not replying is cuz he's getting you some drink ... hm jk jk :P

She's quite the slave driver...

But you love me right?! RIGHT?! ;D
Yes.  Oh, you were talking to Jeff :P
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 03:14:58 AM
As a result of this, Facebook has agreed to make changes to it's system - (http://www.priv.gc.ca/media/nr-c/2009/nr-c_090827_e.cfm). A pretty good move for everyone who gives a crap about their privacy and control of their material online. This may have some implications across all websites.

Makes sense as people should be able to delete their information from any site. After speaking with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, they are working with the US on some of these privacy issues and when asked about "small" sites, she stated that these are not immune to privacy laws.

So sites may want to start being careful with what they do as far as privacy goes and their "deletion policies"
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: 青山 素子 on August 30, 2009, 04:27:38 AM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 03:14:58 AM
So sites may want to start being careful with what they do as far as privacy goes and their "deletion policies"

At least, from what I see on priv.gc.ca, individuals have the right to see private information being stored on them, they have the right to make corrections, and they also have the right to file a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner if they feel their private information is being misused.

As far as I can tell, there is no right to demand that all records a company holds be destroyed. That includes deletion of a membership account. No private information needs to be scrubbed unless it is incorrect, in which case, it can be replaced with correct information.

Most of the information I got came from:

A Guide for Individuals: Your Guide to PIPEDA (http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/02_05_d_08_e.cfm)
A Guide for Businesses and Organizations: Your Privacy Responsibilities (http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/guide_e.cfm)
Privacy Guide for Small Businesses: The Basics (http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/pub/guide_sb_e.cfm)
Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Information_Protection_and_Electronic_Documents_Act)

SMF the software shows to the member all the personal data on their, which is voluntarily provided, except for IPs (I think you can see your own IP?), which is still noted as being collected. Posts are public data and shouldn't be expected as private. PMs are considered private and SMF the software doesn't provide a UI for viewing those of other members. Any private data that can be shown to the general public has to be entered by the member, making sure that person is fully aware that they are making the data available to the public.

As far as I can tell, SMF the software and this forum itself are following those guidelines and rules just fine. Of course, we have no issue with a member abandoning an account and removing their personal profile data.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 11:13:54 AM
You should have sent all your research to Facebook!
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Orstio on August 30, 2009, 11:14:44 AM
Quote"These changes mean that the privacy of 200 million Facebook users in Canada and around the world will be far better protected," says Privacy Commissioner Jennifer Stoddart.

Either that sentence doesn't read right, or there are a whole lot more FaceBook users in Canada than actual citizens....
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Thantos on August 30, 2009, 11:18:41 AM
Quebec citizens have two accounts, one in French and one in English.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Orstio on August 30, 2009, 11:24:08 AM
So, that leaves only 150 million unaccounted for....  :P
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: 青山 素子 on August 30, 2009, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 11:13:54 AM
You should have sent all your research to Facebook!

Well, I'm sure they had their own legal team. It seems the concern was over the indefinate holding of personal information. That seems reasonable. It doesn't seem that they really had to implement a direct purge though, just discard the data after a reasonable time.

If you delete your account here, under approval, all personal information (username, password, associated e-mail, PMs) are removed, and only the public posts are left. I might contact the privacy office and see if that is in keeping with their view of the law, just because I'm curious.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: Orstio on August 30, 2009, 11:14:44 AM
Quote"These changes mean that the privacy of 200 million Facebook users in Canada and around the world will be far better protected," says Privacy Commissioner Jennifer Stoddart.

Either that sentence doesn't read right, or there are a whole lot more FaceBook users in Canada than actual citizens....

Read it like "200 million Facebook users in Canada and around the world"

So Canada and the world.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on August 30, 2009, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: Motoko-chan on August 30, 2009, 12:07:12 PM
I might contact the privacy office and see if that is in keeping with their view of the law, just because I'm curious.

Please do, I'd like to know too :).
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: poolhall on August 30, 2009, 04:56:00 PM
Facebook is quite different from most internet forums. Facebook requires that users must provide their real names and birthdays; users urged to verify their accounts via their cell phones. Once I tried to shorten my last name on Facebook to leave only initial and I couldn't. Even if I had been able to do so, this action would have gone in clear disagreement with Facebook policy. Hence Facebook accounts are linked to real personal information. Internet forum accounts are not in most cases and at least they don't require that. Therefore, legal standard regarding deletion of accounts may very well be different in these two cases.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 05:05:17 PM
Even if that is the case you think a site would delete a persons information at their request.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: poolhall on August 30, 2009, 05:38:41 PM
I don't know what a regular site would do. But regarding internet forums, I feel that the issue is quite complicated starting from the definition of personal information (or person's information, as you put it).
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Orstio on August 30, 2009, 05:40:21 PM
Frankly, after reading the article, I do have to wonder if the changes will really address the atual concerns of privacy.

Reading the FaceBook statement of rights:

http://www.facebook.com/terms.php (http://www.facebook.com/terms.php)

Here are some concerns:

QuoteFor content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy (http://www.facebook.com/privacy/) and application settings (http://www.facebook.com/editapps.php): you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

Bolding mine.  So, you can delete your account, which will delete your photos, unless FaceBook has chosen to share (transfer) those photos to a sub-licensee.  (Note that it doesn't say who does the sharing, just that it is shared.)  In which case it has been shared with others, and your privacy is disregarded.  What's also scary here is the phrase "or in connection with FaceBook".  What constitutes "in connection"?  A link to a FaceBook account off-site?  A link to a real-life CV, resume, business association, etc. from somebody else's FaceBook account?

Just the simple fact that when you sign up you are granting them transferable rights to your intellectual property indicates that they can transfer it to another party with whom you have no direct agreement to terms.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: 青山 素子 on August 30, 2009, 06:41:06 PM
Quote from: poolhall on August 30, 2009, 04:56:00 PM
Internet forum accounts are not in most cases and at least they don't require that. Therefore, legal standard regarding deletion of accounts may very well be different in these two cases.

They still do collect some information that is considered private such as IP address and e-mail address. A straight account deletion while leaving posts intact would fix that issue (all account-specific info would be removed).
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Arantor on August 30, 2009, 06:44:02 PM
Quote from: Motoko-chan on August 30, 2009, 06:41:06 PM
They still do collect some information that is considered private such as IP address and e-mail address. A straight account deletion while leaving posts intact would fix that issue (all account-specific info would be removed).

Doesn't it retain email address and poster IP though in SMF by default, or am I thinking of something else?
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: poolhall on August 30, 2009, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: Motoko-chan on August 30, 2009, 06:41:06 PM
Quote from: poolhall on August 30, 2009, 04:56:00 PM
Internet forum accounts are not in most cases and at least they don't require that. Therefore, legal standard regarding deletion of accounts may very well be different in these two cases.

They still do collect some information that is considered private such as IP address and e-mail address. A straight account deletion while leaving posts intact would fix that issue (all account-specific info would be removed).
It would - that's correct, but the question here, I think, is a forum (its owner) required to delete that information by request of an account holder?
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 09:02:46 PM
My question is why wouldn't a site delete it? Unless they are intentionally trying to be difficult (which this site is trying to be).
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jade Elizabeth on August 30, 2009, 09:43:42 PM
Quote from: Jeff Lewis on August 30, 2009, 09:02:46 PM
My question is why wouldn't a site delete it? Unless they are intentionally trying to be difficult (which this site is trying to be).

I don't delete posts OR accounts on my forum.
Title: Re: Profile deletion disabled on this site?
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 31, 2009, 01:15:42 AM
Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on August 30, 2009, 09:43:42 PM
I don't delete posts OR accounts on my forum.

I do, anytime someone requests it. I'm just being an asshole if I don't.