Simple Machines Community Forum

General Community => Site Comments, Issues and Concerns => Topic started by: Neo_TE on July 10, 2013, 01:13:35 AM

Title: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 10, 2013, 01:13:35 AM
Hi,

May I know why outlook.com email id's never gets activation email from SMF?

I'm not sure if this is a bug or outlook.com email id's are not allowed in simplemachines.  :o
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: MrPhil on July 10, 2013, 09:33:04 AM
Perhaps outlook.com has banned incoming email from your server because you're on some spam blacklist, or it thinks that your activation emails have excessively spammy characteristics?
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 10, 2013, 09:53:30 AM
Nope. I'm not talking about my website.

I'm talking about SMF community forum, "http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php".

In this forum I use a gmail id and yesterday I changed it to outlook email id, I got logged out automatically and was asked to activate my account again.

But I never got the email from "http://www.simplemachines.org/" in my outlook id. I tried the "resend activation email" option twice again but never got the email.

I almost freaked out and then I sent an email to SMF using the contact form @ "http://www.simplemachines.org/about/contact.php" and I'm yet to get a reply.

In the mean time, I tried to log in again and to my surprise, I was greeted by another form asking if I input a wrong email id along with an option to change my email id. So I reverted back to my old gmail id & made this thread.

So I tried creating a new account using another "outlook.com" email id and never got the activation email to that id too. So I'm pretty sure that there is some kind of bug. You may try creating an account using an outlook.com email id and you'll know what I'm talking about.


PS: My forum is sending emails properly to both outlook & gmail id's.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Kindred on July 10, 2013, 10:04:55 AM
and your last statement seems to prove that the issue is not with the SMF site or SMF code.

It would appear that the folks who run outlook.com have probably flagged simplemachines.org as spam for some stupid reason or another.   All it takes is one or two users who don't seem to realize that they signed up for an account and/or turned on notifications - then they get a whole bunch of emails, tell the host that those emails are spam -- and POW, we get blacklisted.
Looking at outlook.com, I notice that it is actually redirecting to Microsoft's live.com....   and we all know what kind of "smart folks" they have running microsquish.

In other words, there is probably nothing we can do about it.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: MrPhil on July 10, 2013, 10:50:46 AM
Remember, what was it, AOL, where there was a big "REPORT EMAIL AS SPAM" button? And all the AOLosers who thought the proper way to unsubscribe from a mailing list was to press that button? You can't stop stupid.

Keep in mind that newsletters must be single (or even double) "opt-in", and all routine mailings (newsletters, notifications, PM copies, etc.) should have a clear statement that they requested this mailing, and how to easily turn it off. The objective is to keep stupid people from reporting it as spam. Non-routine mailings (security alerts, etc.) should still have a statement as to why they're being sent, even if there is no way to unsubscribe. As for SMF, some idiot apparently reported it as spam (perhaps after receiving one of the above categories of mailing), or possibly there's some characteristic (link count, keywords, etc.) that made Outlook decide it was spam. If it's the former case, SMF's admin should contact Outlook to ask what blacklist we're on and to work to get off it. They should also make sure that the above categories include unsubscribe instructions in bold right at the top. If it's the latter case, who knows what can be done.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Kindred on July 10, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
unfortunately, SMF's "unsubscribe" is not quite that simple. It requires you to go into your profile and turn off notifications and announcements...   and even then it won't prevent announcements form the admin from getting through.
On the other hand, there is no email sign up at all...   
It is something that needs ot be looked at...   
perhaps a mod gets made (or someone goes in to add a feature in GitHub which can process input from a separate webpage to turn OFF the notifcations on a user account....

The problem is: then every email from an SMF system would NEED to have a unique ID, which would have to be tracked for each and every email....
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 10, 2013, 12:41:24 PM
So people who sign up for simple machines community with outlook.com email id will never get an activation email.

I think this issue should be fixed.

Maybe we should contact outlook webmaster?
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Kindred on July 10, 2013, 01:05:39 PM
again... SMF can contact them... but it's not an SMF problem... it is a problem with their process which has flagged SMF messages as spam.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: live627 on July 10, 2013, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: Kindred on July 10, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
unfortunately, SMF's "unsubscribe" is not quite that simple. It requires you to go into your profile and turn off notifications and announcements...   and even then it won't prevent announcements form the admin from getting through. [snip]
Wait, what? Isn't that a violation of CAN SPAM??
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: MrPhil on July 10, 2013, 02:26:47 PM
Security and stability related announcements (via email) are exempt from anti-spam laws. Sometimes the line between potential spam and a necessary announcement can be a little fuzzy, but that's life. Just be judicious about what is a necessary announcement from the admin (e.g., security breach -- passwords stolen!), which no one should be able to turn off at the SMF end, and what could be considered newsletter-type material (e.g., new features! new people! we haven't heard from you in a while and we miss you!). No one should receive newsletters, PM announcements/text, or board/topic notifications unless they specifically requested them. They should be reminded with each one they receive that 1) they requested it, and 2) here's how to turn off the mailing. It all comes down to common sense, which unfortunately is in short supply these days.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 10, 2013, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: MrPhil on July 10, 2013, 02:26:47 PM
It all comes down to common sense, which unfortunately is in short supply these days.
This.

And also in this case, an unaware action by a single person managing the servers affects thousands of people.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: LiroyvH on July 10, 2013, 06:40:40 PM
It should end up in your spam folder if outlook flags it as spam.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: MrPhil on July 10, 2013, 07:11:02 PM
Good point. Did the OP check spam/bulk/junk mail folders?
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Kindred on July 10, 2013, 07:49:51 PM
actually, if we are blacklisted by outlook.com, they will stop the email before it even gets to the mailbox.
If we are just flagged as reported spam, then it will go to the junk mail folder.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 11, 2013, 01:56:36 AM
Nope, no email in the spam folder too. The email never reached my account.

Quote from: Kindred on July 10, 2013, 07:49:51 PM
actually, if we are blacklisted by outlook.com, they will stop the email before it even gets to the mailbox.
If we are just flagged as reported spam, then it will go to the junk mail folder.
This.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: ziycon on July 11, 2013, 04:56:13 AM
Heres a very quick search for what and where simplemachines.org is blacklisted and 66.71.247.135 isn't blacklisted by Spamcop.net which MS use for outlook.com filtering.

QuoteLISTED   222ms   ATLBL ABL
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.135
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.134
   DNS MX Record (Mail Server) mx1.simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.138
LISTED   217ms   ATLBL HBL
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.135
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.134
   DNS MX Record (Mail Server) mx1.simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.138
LISTED   214ms   ATLBL RBL
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.135
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.134
   DNS MX Record (Mail Server) mx1.simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.138
LISTED   820ms   BBQ
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.135
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.134
   DNS MX Record (Mail Server) mx1.simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.138
LISTED   4481ms   MW-Internet RBL
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.135
   DNS A Record simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.134
   DNS MX Record (Mail Server) mx1.simplemachines.org. resolves to a blacklisted IP 66.71.247.138
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: kat on July 11, 2013, 05:36:41 AM
For reference, I've been getting a LOT of spammy registration attempts, on my forum, from outlook.com. I have members from that domain banned, now, thanks to the "Restrict Email Providers on Registration" mod. So, they don't even appear, when they make the attempt to register, now.

Wonder if it's related, somehow?
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: LiroyvH on July 11, 2013, 12:32:10 PM
@Ziycon:
I'm not sure where you got that info. We are not listed in any blacklists.

Also see:
http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a66.71.247.138&run=toolpage
http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a66.71.247.134&run=toolpage
"Checking simplemachines.org against 58 known blacklists... Not listed."


Please note that ATLBL RBL doesn't exist anymore since quite a while.
Not sure which tool you used for checking, but it looks like it's very old? :P

I don't think we're hitting a blacklist problem here, but there must be something else wrong.
I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: ziycon on July 11, 2013, 06:59:57 PM
Quote from: CoreISP on July 11, 2013, 12:32:10 PM
@Ziycon:
I'm not sure where you got that info. We are not listed in any blacklists.

Also see:
http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a66.71.247.138&run=toolpage
http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a66.71.247.134&run=toolpage
"Checking simplemachines.org against 58 known blacklists... Not listed."


Please note that ATLBL RBL doesn't exist anymore since quite a while.
Not sure which tool you used for checking, but it looks like it's very old? :P

I don't think we're hitting a blacklist problem here, but there must be something else wrong.
I'll check it out.
Must be old, http://domain-blacklist.e-dns.org/simplemachines.org
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Herman's Mixen on July 11, 2013, 07:27:53 PM
This is an very old problem, i had it once when i did change my mailadress to my hotmail adress, i also didnot get the activation renewal, this was needed to be done manually by the PM at that time was Amacythe the project manager or admin, and i had just a conversation with her.... about bouncing mails.... then she did reset it ;)

when id did asked, could luckily use my old acccount to get in before she reset or needed to make a new account for that

Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 16, 2013, 02:48:15 AM
Has the problem been fixed?
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: 青山 素子 on July 17, 2013, 09:12:32 PM
Microsoft's junk filter is really bad. Half the time they accept mail but just drop it without delivering.

If simplemachines.org does wish to spend the effort to try and get around any kind of blocking, they'll have to implement stuff like DKIM, joining a special "trusted senders" list, etc. It's a whole bunch of work that puts a lot of costs on the senders of mail. Of course, you can also sign up for something like Bonded Sender, but it's expensive.

Oh, and the blacklist checker I usually use is http://multirbl.valli.org/ (http://multirbl.valli.org/). I don't know what outbound server is used for forum e-mail, but for the MX record, it's not on any of the RBLs that site checks (except for 2ch's BBQ, and that's not relevant for e-mail sending).
Title: Re: Outlook.com email id's
Post by: Neo_TE on July 18, 2013, 12:54:38 AM
ok thanks.