hi guys,
my host just shut down my site because the forum started to hog all their system resources "This was shut down due to the fact that your site has a heavy enough mysql load to shut down the physical server."
They made a backup of the database but won't turn it back on until I fix the problem. But since its not running I don't know how to go about this. If you have any ideas let me know.
Do you have the facility to check the database?
If you do, can you see if any of the topics have a "numViews" higher than logically possible? Meaning, more than say 10000 but with few replies?
Was your host using MySQL 3 or MySQL 4?
-[Unknown]
I'm downloading the database right now. I'll look at it and let you know what I find.
The backup I downloaded that they created for me is full of MYD and MYI files of each table. When I try to view them in notepad I see only junk. What should I use to view this and what table should I be looking for. Usually I would just look around but since there are hundred of files now it's harder to find.
You might be able to view those if you install MySQL on your own server, create a database, and copy these files into mysql\data\databasename. Those are the raw MySQL database files....
-[Unknown]
Okay, I am installing in on my machine right now. They were running mysql 3.0 as it is illegal for them to install 4.0 due to legal reasons.
If they think it's illegal to install MySQL 4, then they are talking rubbish and I highly doubt that they have a clue what they are talking about when saying your forum was a resource hog.
Here is what they told me (webintellects.net):
"We are running MySQl 3. Version 4 is restricted by its license not to be commercially distributed so our software provider could not upgrade if they wanted to. "
[offtopic]
Time for you to switch hosts, I think. ;D
If they are using MySQL Pro then they probably can't just upgrade - but as a host I know I would stay on the edge to keep my customers happy.
There are plenty of hosts that stay at the forefront!
[/offtopic]
Sigh. Stupid hosts.
MySQL 3 was licensed under the lesser GPL. MySQL 4 is licensed under the GPL. Yes, there's a HUGE difference there, but they've completely and utterly missed it.
You see, MySQL 4 just cannot be sold. Period. End of story. However, open source would not exist if people could not profit or at least break even off of it. Don't think we're communists - only people who don't understand do.
You can sell SERVICES for MySQL, such as hosting, without problem. This is the INTENT. You're SUPPOSED to sell services. That's how it WORKS.
http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/opensource-license.html
Even if it weren't, it's $595. Compare that with Microsoft SQL (http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.asp). So even then, how cheap is your host?
GPL here:
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
LGPL here:
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html
-[Unknown]
I imagine the problem is they use something crappy like Ensim which comes with MySQL 3x and they for whatever reason cant/wont upgrade to MySQL 4x themselves.
But everything has been running fine for months. I haven't changed a thing since I installed smf months ago. They are using control maestro, WEBppliance Pro 3.5.21-10
SMF was designed with MySQL 4 in mind. The problem is, MySQL 3 and 4 act very differently in some situations, and what is slow on one may be fast on the other. In fact, there have been situations where we have had to pick between two methods - one fast on 4, another fast on 3. Obviously, the descision could only logically be made to go with the current version (4) not the old and no longer available 3.
It still should not be slow, persay, but I can understand it performing worse. Additionally, MySQL 4 is simply faster overall, and when you account for query caching it is faster indeed. If your host is really concerned about their server's performance, they should be willing to upgrade MySQL - otherwise, they really are not worth your money.
MySQL 4 has been available for quite a while now. Your host probably just over-reacted to a peak period.
-[Unknown]
They took the entire site down. Then after I got a hold of them they put it back up and supposedly the resources shot up immediately so they took it down again. Right now they are waiting on me to fix the problem which I can't really do.
Edit Settings.php and put it in maintenance mode. See if it "shoots up again" then too.
Because that would obviously be a crock :P.
-[Unknown]
I have put it in maitenance mode and asked them to turn it back on. Hopefully they will do it soon.
Why go through all this trouble... the easiest solution would be to find a host that doesn't have their collective heads up their... ahem... find a host that knows what they are doing.
Quote from: Amacythe on September 12, 2004, 08:38:20 PM
Why go through all this trouble... the easiest solution would be to find a host that doesn't have their collective heads up their... ahem... find a host that knows what they are doing.
I've been using this host for years and haven't had a problem. I think the person who got stuck as tech support on a sunday just isn't very knowledgeable. I usually get much better answers and quick response. I'll find out when I call my usual contact tommorrow. I have hundreds of thousands of messages and over 4,000 users so it's not a small board. Hopefully I can get it resolved soon, otherwise I will definately think of changing.
Quote from: [Unknown] on September 12, 2004, 05:37:21 PM
Do you have the facility to check the database?
If you do, can you see if any of the topics have a "numViews" higher than logically possible? Meaning, more than say 10000 but with few replies?
Was your host using MySQL 3 or MySQL 4?
-[Unknown]
Okay, I finally got a server running on my local machine and checked out the database. The highest sumViews was 5600 and there were 400 replies to it so I don't think there were any rogue threads. Any other ideas?
Hmm.. at the time it was dropped, how many people were listed in the smf_log_online table?
-[Unknown]
It looks like there were only 22 on at the time they took it down. The top for the day was 48. Nothing abnormal.
I don't suppose you could get them to look at the access log, load averages, or anything else from that time? I can't imagine how else it could be suddenly using up enough resources to physically damage the server. Unless the tech on duty was wasted or something.
-[Unknown]
I could sure ask, what exactly do you want me to ask them to look for?
Quote from: goosemoose on September 13, 2004, 02:03:06 AM
I could sure ask, what exactly do you want me to ask them to look for?
Well, one possibility might be someone contacting the forum many times per second over a period of more than a few minutes. I was consider that almost a DoS attack, and that's why I asked you to check numViews - this has been done before by people with malicious intents to other forums, and can cause high load.
I'm also wondering how bad the load averages really were. On this server, they're currently.. "load average: 0.34, 0.71, 0.66" which, while not totally ideal of course (they used to be lower, strangely...) are perfectly fine. Your first post, at least, made it sound like your account was disabled for fear of physical damage to the server. For this, I might expect the load averages to be higher than 20 or so - although, I am not by any means a linux expert. Being able to see the load average might give me an idea of how bad the issue is.
You might also want to ask if there is ANYTHING your host change on your server in the last week. It could be that they even changed some minor setting in php.ini - obviously, I don't think such could have caused high-load problems, but it's possible and moreover, it's a start.
Right now, because you say your forum was performing okay in the past and you were not shut down by your host before now, I have nothing else to really go on. It would be considerably different if you knew your host had changed something, or if you had had some problems before... but sudden problems are a lot harder to track down.
Of course, there is another question too (but I assume you've already asked yourself this..) have *you* changed anything in SMF's configuration or an .htaccess file in the past while yourself? I doubt that's a problem either... but again, it may at least be something to go off of.
-[Unknown]
would not 'persistent connection' when activated on a non DS causes a high load!
Okay the forum is in maintenance mode and they have turned mysql back on. According to the tech there have been no changes over the past weel that he is "aware of". It's at http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc if you want to take a look at it. I am still not taking it out of maintenance mode yet though.
Okay, I took it out of maintenance mode and all looks ok. Note that I still made no changes to the site or db.
Strike that, they took it down within 5 minutes of it being out of mainentance mode, it started doing the same thing.
Have you considered upgrading to RC1?
-[Unknown]
I'm in the process of doing it right now. I had uploaded my beta 4 files on accident so now I'm going back up then to RC1. Do you think that will fix the problem? Has anyone else had anything similar?
Well, the search functionality was a bit slower than desirable in Beta 5. Still, if you had no problems until now it doesn't make any sense.
-[Unknown]
Well I upgraded to RC1 and turned off maintenance mode and the forum crashed the server as soon as it was taken out of maintenance mode. I saw it myself as I could load the first few pages then it started going slower and slower until smf told me the db connection was lost. The host claims nothing has changed recently and I know I haven't changed any files for months. Does anybody have any other ideas? They are telling me now that they probably won't turn it back on.
You 100% sure that persistant connections isn't somehow on?
I just checked and smf has persistent connection unchecked
It sounds like an issue with the server to me.
I'd move hosts.
If you want to give me FTP access I'll try to figure out what's eating load...?
-[Unknown]
Quote from: Ben_S on September 12, 2004, 07:03:35 PM
I imagine the problem is they use something crappy like Ensim which comes with MySQL 3x and they for whatever reason cant/wont upgrade to MySQL 4x themselves.
Yup , they were using Ensim!
You say they were using Ensim, does this mean they have upgraded or are going to?
well they still are using it but I moved mine to another server running plesk where i have my own virutual server, where everything seems to be running okay, though a bit slow.
Quote from: goosemoose on September 16, 2004, 01:33:54 AM
well they still are using it but I moved mine to another server running plesk where i have my own virutual server, where everything seems to be running okay, though a bit slow.
Can I see a phpinfo? MySQL version information (not the stuff on the phpinfo!)?
-[Unknown]
http://209.216.209.81/phpinfo.php
mysql is still version 3.
Quote from: goosemoose on September 16, 2004, 02:03:44 AM
http://209.216.209.81/phpinfo.php
mysql is still version 3.
Egad! They have so many things compiled in.. ugh.
What do you/are you going to use the server for? Mainly SMF and static content? If so, you might consider upgrading to PHP 5. Even if not, you should upgrade to 4.3.8 (and soon a 4.3.9) which includes some security fixes ;).
The configure line also includes a lot of things it might not need. I'd take out --enable-mbrege, --enable-dio (never heard of that?), --enable-trans-sid, and --with-ncurses at least.
It's also nice to note that MySQL 4 is significantly faster, and is the current stable release. MySQL 3 is now an "archived" download.
http://downloads.mysql.com/archives.php?p=mysql-3.23
MySQL 4 supports the all-powerful-and-beloved feature we call "query caching", which is just generally awesome.
You seem to be on Apache 2, which is good.
Also, since you're on a dedicated server, you might try using a persistant connection. This should be faster too ;).
-[Unknown]
Yeah i'm just using smf and static content. I'll look into the upgrades. Check out the forum and tell me what you think about the speed.