In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
I have to agree but to be honest people don't have to use the default theme. SMF is very customizable and there are many very nice themes for it.
It would be nice for SMF2.0 to have a good template but lots of people dont use the default theme if they dont like it.
I agree with you about that. But look at the number of noobs using PHPBB and using its default theme. Not everyone is comfortable making all those edits. And then the mods that come out might also require theme edits.
Wouldn't it be great if the default skin was really good looking.
Now if someone reaches this Simple Machines site, what impression does the community forum look give? Not very good looking. At first I ignored SMF because of the defaul skin. But then one day my friend showed me his SMF with a nice skin and right away ditched the old forum software that I used. Personally I love SMF. For me, SMF+Mods = vBulletin.
Look at the nice looking skin of Joomla 1.5 [I know everyone hates Joomla now including me]. Look at Mybb's default skin.
As many of you guys know - First impression is the last impression.
About theme edits - SMF 2.0 will do mod changes automatically on any installed theme
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of phpBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
While I'll admit that the PHPBB default theme uses better HTML I do have to say that if their default theme design is "nice looking" then please find me the uglist theme possible. I've looked at a few phpBB boards using the latest theme and I honestly can't stay there for more then a few minutes before my eyes hurt.
Quote from: YodaOfDarkness on February 16, 2008, 03:24:02 PM
About theme edits - SMF 2.0 will do mod changes automatically on any installed theme
Is that true? That would be awesome.
But I would still call for a better default theme.
Quote from: Thantos on February 16, 2008, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of phpBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
While I'll admit that the PHPBB default theme uses better HTML I do have to say that if their default theme design is "nice looking" then please find me the uglist theme possible. I've looked at a few phpBB boards using the latest theme and I honestly can't stay there for more then a few minutes before my eyes hurt.
But the thing is that IF SMF wants to get above PHPBB it has to have a better default theme. I don't like PHPBB. But a lot of people are using PHPBB and its popular and doesn't need to do anything special to do good.
But if SMF shows all the noobs out there that anyone can have a good looking site without doing anything, a lot of people will start to choose Simple Machines.
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: YodaOfDarkness on February 16, 2008, 03:24:02 PM
About theme edits - SMF 2.0 will do mod changes automatically on any installed theme
Is that true? That would be awesome.
But I would still call for a better default theme.
2.0 *attempts to install mods on all themes.
But if the code section that is being altered by the mod differs from the default theme, then that edit might fail, and you would still have to do manual edits.
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
SMF is already successful. And have you heard that expression ''Don''t judge a book by its cover''?
It isn''t the look that makes a forum software successful of popular but what it has to offer. And SMF offers plenty, more than phpbb, anytime in my personal opinion. Especially security wise and community wise. And it gets better with the new version, the 2.0
I love SMF too and thats why I am using it too and is hell better than PHPBB but PHPBB is more popular than SMF, isn't it?
Anyways, it was just my two cents.
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 04:05:17 PM
but PHPBB is more popular than SMF, isn't it?
I guess this is a relative concept. For others it might be that, but for me, based in my observations, SMF is more popular than phpbb. More people turn away from phpbb and join smf than the other way around. And I have seen more and more websites each day that use Smf as their favorite forum software. But as I said in the begin, this is a relative concept
I like the current theme on SM.org , Personally i'm hoping that it will become the default theme for 2.0
Quote from: Alan S on February 16, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
I like the current theme on SM.org , Personally i'm hoping that it will become the default theme for 2.0
It's nice layout wise but it needs a lot of improvements. (ie look at the header curves)
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
If you can code a forum with .php it looks very professional already in my opinion :). *says a .php-n00b*
i think of security is first , maybe of phpbb have a very good looking style but the securitiy of that system sucks and some themes are very pretty like bf or dilmerMC
A quick comment on popularity. Part of the reason phpBB seems to be more popular is because it's been around much longer than smf. I believe it was also the first php-based forum system. SMF is quickly becoming more popular.
I have to agree. With all the talented theme creators around [like Bloc], I'm sure SMF could have a default theme way better than it currently is.
I for one believe the phpbb default theme is better than the SMF theme.
It's more smoother, and the text+mini icon menu is better.
And please remember, the nicer the default theme is, the nicer future themes will be since most themes are based off the SMF default.
It's a win/win situation.
One way to have a better theme is to put a default favicon code in the template, or fix the profile view[avatar under name plz].
There is a new default theme in the works but I cant say that it'd it'd be vital that if we had kept the current as default that most people would turn away because of it.
I think that if SMF had more seo friendly basic theme it would be no1. forum software already.
Check these:
http://www.vbseo.com/f55/1400-one-day-vbseo-18151/
http://www.vbseo.com/f55/how-did-vbseo-buy-young-entrepreneur-bmw-m3-luxury-car-11674/
http://www.vbseo.com/f55/fastest-way-20k-vbseo-fireblades-story-11660/
http://www.vbseo.com/
Quote from: Stüldt Håjt on February 17, 2008, 03:08:13 AMI think that if SMF had more seo friendly basic theme it would be no1. forum software already.
vbSEO loves to talk about itself. Did you think there would be negative posts on their site? They're trying to sell a product. Of course they wouldn't post anything neutral or negative. They'd only post skewed versions of the very best they could find to get people to buy their product.
Remember that disclaimer on put on ads about "making tons of money from home" and "I lost 50 pounds in three weeks"? No? Well, at the bottom of these ads, you'll see "results not typical".
I know many people who haven't seen a darn thing from a product like that, and others who claim it worked wonders.
In reality, SEO is much more than some code adjustments, tag changes, and URL edits (which aren't even proven to help at all). It's a much more holistic approach closely aligned with the direction you want to move in and very much a marketing thing.
I have the ultimate solution for SEO - replace all $txt strings with the words "viagra", "pills", "free", and "salisbury steak".
Just as Motoko-Chan said, SEO doesn't do much for a huge majority of people... heck, people lose more money buying all of that SEO crap than they would gain, on average.
I don't agree with the "You can't judge a book by it,
's cover". Many newbies tend to do this. I am the same way to an extent. If I don't like how something looks then I wont use it. Now is that my mentality torwards that has changed. Yahoo for example. The interface is too cluttered and I don't like it. I could careless if Yahoo is the best thing since sliced bread. If there is something with a cleaner inerface and better looks then I use that. Most newbies are like that. It's bad thing but most of the time it's the first impression that counts.
Opensource powaaaa! 8)
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
Have to agree, having one fantastic default skin could be the biggest push SMF could ever ask for but alas the current one does look like a slapped bum. People seem to forget alot of noobs don't really look at the feature list they look at what they see.
What I don't get is SMF does have alot of theme designers so why do they sit back and do nothing when they have so much creative talent around?
ok.... my 2 cents....
First off, the title here of the post is wrong. SMF IS successful. No security issues, growing user base, what else needs to be considered to be a success? Maybe the title should be: SMF needs a better default theme.
Secondly and maybe more importantly, good, bad or indifferent, SMF has made its bed with the default theme and a lot of the Mods. If SMF changed the default theme to use something other than the tabbed template menu, then all Mods that add to that menu would need to be recoded. Of course a new default theme could simply change the graphics and style colors.
What has been suggested here is not something that can be quickly decided. There could be all kinds of ramifications.
It is kind of interesting because when the default theme first came out, nearly all thought it was very nice.
oh well...
Quote from: spottedhog on February 17, 2008, 08:58:15 AM
ok.... my 2 cents....
First off, the title here of the post is wrong. SMF IS successful. No security issues, growing user base, what else needs to be considered to be a success? Maybe the title should be: SMF needs a better default theme.
Secondly and maybe more importantly, good, bad or indifferent, SMF has made its bed with the default theme and a lot of the Mods. If SMF changed the default theme to use something other than the tabbed template menu, then all Mods that add to that menu would need to be recoded. Of course a new default theme could simply change the graphics and style colors.
What has been suggested here is not something that can be quickly decided. There could be all kinds of ramifications.
It is kind of interesting because when the default theme first came out, nearly all thought it was very nice.
oh well...
True, true, true!
another thought....
Maybe the default theme could be changed to make it multi-colored to maybe give it say 10 different looks. Then there would be a little more to look at.
...just thinking...
Or let some coders create a few themes and then let the people choose the one they like the most.
Something like a vote where people can see the theme's demos or screenshots or something like that...
I like the default theme being used right now, but it could be done better ;).
In my honest opinion, SMF is already better than PHPbb.
About the visual..., well..., I love vB visual, I love IPB visual..., but I only "like" SMF visual. I think that is very "low" eyecandy, and the "face" is very important as well.
And yes, I think that SMF team should consider to enhance the visual of the default theme, you shouldn't judge one book by it's cover..., but you don't take if no one talks about it before...
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
I absolutely agree.
e.g. SMF could use the current SMF Homepage Theme as default skin.
Quote from: klumy on February 17, 2008, 10:38:04 AM
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
I absolutely agree.
e.g. SMF could use the current SMF Homepage Theme as default skin.
That's a question in itself that really. Why hasn't SMF wanted to use their own default skin ?
Changing the theme would mean a lot of change for the SMF Mods that have been created.
Quote from: spottedhog on February 17, 2008, 11:40:16 AM
Changing the theme would mean a lot of change for the SMF Mods that have been created.
They will have to be changed anyways because of 2.0, so this would be the perfect moment for doing such changes.
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 11:09:29 AM
That's a question in itself that really. Why hasn't SMF wanted to use their own default skin ?
Oh, we've used the SMF 1.1 default theme for quite a while here, even when it was running on SMF Development Edition. It was changed after SMF 2.0 was announced, if I recall correctly. :)
The best possible solution for themes would be ability to create a theme just by using css and graphics. Just like MediaWiki.
So all the styles would come from css and html would be as plain as possible.
Like this site: http://www.csszengarden.com/
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 06:47:01 AM
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
What I don't get is SMF does have alot of theme designers so why do they sit back and do nothing when they have so much creative talent around?
I resent that.
Quote from: Bloodsurfer on February 17, 2008, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: spottedhog on February 17, 2008, 11:40:16 AM
Changing the theme would mean a lot of change for the SMF Mods that have been created.
They will have to be changed anyways because of 2.0, so this would be the perfect moment for doing such changes.
True, I agree with that...but also, you can change the css style without effecting the mods installation. ;)
Quote from: ToxXxic on February 17, 2008, 09:15:37 AM
Or let some coders create a few themes and then let the people choose the one they like the most.
Something like a vote where people can see the theme's demos or screenshots or something like that...
I like the default theme being used right now, but it could be done better ;).
That's a great idea. =D
---
If the smf team wants to change the default theme, our smf theme creation site can help. [Check my sig]
I believe that the default theme should be changed. It's been the same for a long time.
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 06:47:01 AM
What I don't get is SMF does have alot of theme designers so why do they sit back and do nothing when they have so much creative talent around?
As an SMF Designer, I cant say I appreciate that sort of comment. You just don't know how much work we have to actually do.
Quote from: spottedhog on February 17, 2008, 09:12:12 AM
Maybe the default theme could be changed to make it multi-colored to maybe give it say 10 different looks. Then there would be a little more to look at.
There is a topic back in the themes board with color variations for "core".
Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 02:47:36 PM
I believe that the default theme should be changed. It's been the same for a long time.
We won't be changing the theme for the 1.1 series simply because we need to maintain some consistency for all the mods. New themes, if any, would be on a new version where we break compatibility in other ways as well.
Quote from: Gazmanafc on February 17, 2008, 03:29:17 PM
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 06:47:01 AM
What I don't get is SMF does have alot of theme designers so why do they sit back and do nothing when they have so much creative talent around?
As an SMF Designer, I cant say I appreciate that sort of comment. You just don't know how much work we have to actually do.
I'm sorry if you've took offence but that's just how I feel and I think it would be even worse if people just lied. Would you really appreciate people saying yea the default theme rocks it's the best thing since sliced bread if you knew they were lying ? Seriously think about it even the main SMF forum here doesn't use it
Obviously not. But just saying that the designers including myself just sit around doing nothing isn't exactly great either.
I use it ;)
Why can't we use a custom theme here? Is it not ok for us to do this.
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 06:47:01 AM
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
Have to agree, having one fantastic default skin could be the biggest push SMF could ever ask for but alas the current one does look like a slapped bum. People seem to forget alot of noobs don't really look at the feature list they look at what they see.
What I don't get is SMF does have alot of theme designers so why do they sit back and do nothing when they have so much creative talent around?
I agree. A lot of noobs are starting to use forum systems. Every other dude who knows Microsoft Word thinks that he can build a forum and is. Lets say you are standing at this place and there are 5 books in front of you. You are standing 10 feet away from them. Which one would you choose? The one with the impressive cover of course. I'm talking noobs. When a new person has to choose from a number of forums, he will tired of reading the features list and will just look at it and choose.
Quote from: PanesarV on February 17, 2008, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 06:47:01 AM
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
Have to agree, having one fantastic default skin could be the biggest push SMF could ever ask for but alas the current one does look like a slapped bum. People seem to forget alot of noobs don't really look at the feature list they look at what they see.
What I don't get is SMF does have alot of theme designers so why do they sit back and do nothing when they have so much creative talent around?
I agree. A lot of noobs are starting to use forum systems. Every other dude who knows Microsoft Word thinks that he can build a forum and is. Lets say you are standing at this place and there are 5 books in front of you. You are standing 10 feet away from them. Which one would you choose? The one with the impressive cover of course. I'm talking noobs. When a new person has to choose from a number of forums, he will tired of reading the features list and will just look at it and choose.
And what would you do if you start reading this book with a fancy cover and after reading through the first lines you realize that its contents is full of rubbish?
QuoteAnd what would you do if you start reading this book with a fancy cover and after reading through the first lines you realize that its contents is full of rubbish?
What if the fancy cover book is OKish and the person is good enough with it and that is what is happening with PHPBB. Its like satisfying for a lot of people.
SMF should try to create a win-win situation. If SMF is the book with an impressive cover and its content is more than amazing, then wouldn't it better than great?
You know, constant complaining about SMF's theme just irritates the team and makes them less likely to even respond to topics like these.
Believe me, we hear you all, we've heard you all for months and months now.
Continuing to complain only takes time away from actual work while the team responds here.
Ok Sorry Dude. It was just Site Feedback.
Quote from: Gazmanafc on February 17, 2008, 03:39:40 PM
Obviously not. But just saying that the designers including myself just sit around doing nothing isn't exactly great either.
I didn't say they were I was referring to the talent of all the designers who contribute to the theme section. The point was with all that talent they could come up with one killer default theme that would make SMF really stand out compared to the dull and gloomy default theme now
Quote from: babjusi on February 17, 2008, 03:45:46 PM
And what would you do if you start reading this book with a fancy cover and after reading through the first lines you realize that its contents is full of rubbish?
That's over to the goods in the book as you know. The point is the theme has done it's job ;)
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 17, 2008, 04:03:12 PM
You know, constant complaining about SMF's theme just irritates the team and makes them less likely to even respond to topics like these.e.
But you have to admit it's funny that the home SMF forum doesn't even use it
I can't believe people are actually arguing against the fact that the current default theme isn't up to par.
We need to improve it just like how coding gets revised and upgraded, so does the theme.
The default theme is just as important as any other script.
And the longer we wait, the worse it's going to get.
2.0 is a call for change.
Change/Upgrade the default theme. There's no need to fight about it.
And changing the theme doesn't consist of changing mods to fit it, get your facts people!!
CSS, controls the themes by a majority!
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 17, 2008, 04:03:12 PM<br />You know, constant complaining about SMF's theme just irritates the team and makes them less likely to even respond to topics like these.<br /><br />Believe me, we hear you all, we've heard you all for months and months now.<br /><br />Continuing to complain only takes time away from actual work while the team responds here.<br />
Sounds like you want it avoid the fact that the default theme needs revising. :-X
Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 04:10:10 PM
But you have to admit it's funny that the home SMF forum doesn't even use it
There are reasons for the theme revision, actually. In addition, the theme here is part of an experiment we have been doing in making more semantic code (there is more work done than on here, but that work would break the site right now).
Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 04:11:38 PM
Sounds like you want it avoid the fact that the default theme needs revising. :-X
No, it's just that a new topic about "SMF's default theme is crap" once a week is very tiring.
Imagine you made something and you're very proud of it. Now, you are in the workshop working on improving that thing. You've heard a lot from those who have seen and used it and are taking those things into consideration in your new edition.
However, you have some people that keep asking you about the new design. Every time they come by, they make a point to talk about how ugly that older edition is. Every. Single. Time. They. Visit.
Surely, you'd get tired of that and just ignore the comments and not bother to respond. Maybe you
are working on a better design, but don't want to say much on it. Maybe you actually don't care about the design but want to make sure that others who design for your thing will have a better time doing so. Maybe both. Maybe neither. Either way, you're not going to say anything because the people making constant complaints won't shut up anyway.
That's what I'm on about. Basically: We get it. You don't like the default 1.1 theme. You think an ape throwing paintballs at a canvas can do better design. Your constant bringing it up only makes us less likely to say anything about any possible work in that area.
Why dont yall just build your own themes, Put some effort into your sites, learn how the theme system works, and stop expecting the people that make this excellent code for free to wipe your butts and make it pretty like you want too ??
Seriously...
Quote from: Gargoyle on February 17, 2008, 04:37:33 PM
Seriously...
Seriously?, most professionals like honest input but if you aren't up for that then perhaps it's best to leave it and add something to rules about it. Perhaps "only positive criticism allowed" ?
edit: apologies just noticed he isn't even crew :-* He's obviously not thought it through
I'm not a part of SMF... I'm a big boy and learn the code so I can make it what I want.. Not a phpBB noob looking for momma on the internet.
The posts on this topic are pretty disrespectful to the team. Instead of whining why not make one yourself and offer to help, show work, effort, a means to an end, be constructive. Not a little whiner...
Lots of people don't like what I say when I get going. Lots of people don't like the truth. I'm just calling this like I see it.
P.S. I've said what I need to. I'm out of this topic.
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 17, 2008, 04:29:03 PM<br />Quote from: riker on February 17, 2008, 04:10:10 PM<br />But you have to admit it's funny that the home SMF forum doesn't even use it<br />
<br /><br />There are reasons for the theme revision, actually. In addition, the theme here is part of an experiment we have been doing in making more semantic code (there is more work done than on here, but that work would break the site right now).<br /><br /><br />Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 04:11:38 PM<br />Sounds like you want it avoid the fact that the default theme needs revising. <img src="http://www.simplemachines.org/community/Smileys/simple/lipsrsealed.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" onresizestart="return false;" id="smiley_1_lipsrsealed.gif" style="padding-left: 6px;" /><br />
<br /><br />No, it's just that a new topic about "SMF's default theme is crap" once a week is very tiring.<br /><br />Imagine you made something and you're very proud of it. Now, you are in the workshop working on improving that thing. You've heard a lot from those who have seen and used it and are taking those things into consideration in your new edition.<br /><br /><i>However</i>, you have some people that keep asking you about the new design. Every time they come by, they make a point to talk about how ugly that older edition is. Every. Single. Time. They. Visit.<br /><br />Surely, you'd get tired of that and just ignore the comments and not bother to respond. Maybe you <i>are</i> working on a better design, but don't want to say much on it. Maybe you actually don't care about the design but want to make sure that others who design for your thing will have a better time doing so. Maybe both. Maybe neither. Either way, you're not going to say anything because the people making constant complaints won't shut up anyway.<br /><br /><i>That's</i> what I'm on about. Basically: We get it. You don't like the default 1.1 theme. You think an ape throwing paintballs at a canvas can do better design. Your constant bringing it up only makes us less likely to say anything about any possible work in that area.<br />
The fact that people say that the theme needs revising doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like it.
I agree with what a lot of people on this site say though, that change is essential for a business to prosper alongside it's competitors.
Me, being a web designer knows how easy it is to customize a theme and at the same time, how hard it is to make it perfect.
I can probably pop out a nice theme in about a full day of work.
So just because an ape throws paintballs, doesn't mean that the ape can't shoot them.
Just give him the gun.
Edit-
In other words, I'll be happy to help SMF anyway I can.
^^^^^ I love your themes Jpg and am using one of your themes currently. It would be great if you could come out with a nice theme, which could be used for SMF default theme.
I'm not complaining. I love SMF as much as you guys do. I'm only saying this because I actually care about SMF. SMF team please don't take any offense of this topic. Its only cuz I care.
skins are a matter of taste and personal perception - the default skin is plain looking and everyone can modify it by installing skins or changing code. Personally, I hate blackish skins, others love it...there is no way to attract everyone.
my 2cents
http://community.mybboard.net/
Those guys have a pretty nice balanced theme which most of the people will find attractive. Some nice vibrant colours.
Once again, I'm not criticizing. Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: PanesarV on February 17, 2008, 05:46:42 PM
http://community.mybboard.net/
Those guys have a pretty nice balanced theme which most of the people will find attractive. Some nice vibrant colours.
Once again, I'm not criticizing. Just my 2 cents.
if that was meant for me, thanks, I customised my forum skin on code level ;)
I am so picky in what I want it's nearly impossible to serve me right :)
That wasn't meant for anyone particular. I can't keep track of who is talking in this topic or not :P
jpg, my facts are straight.... When a SMF Mod wants to put a link in the navigational tabs, it looks for code exactly like is in the function template_menu. If you change how navigation links are made in a new default theme, then the current Mods who need links will need to change their xml install files. Of course this only pertains to current 1.1.x versions.
Quote from: spottedhog on February 17, 2008, 06:20:29 PM
jpg, my facts are straight.... When a SMF Mod wants to put a link in the navigational tabs, it looks for code exactly like is in the function template_menu. If you change how navigation links are made in a new default theme, then the current Mods who need links will need to change their xml install files. Of course this only pertains to current 1.1.x versions.
How do you think the menus are designed?
Css mate.
No mod requires the default css. Understand?
Sorry guys, I think I'm in love with SMF because of its default skin.... it never hurts my eyes.
MIQ
Quote from: miqbal on February 17, 2008, 08:24:45 PM
Sorry guys, I think I'm in love with SMF because of its default skin.... it never hurts my eyes.
MIQ
Well, we could keep the old default skin...just leave it in the install just how babylon is in it by default.
If I had access to the beta version, me and my friends at dzinerstudio will be happy to develop an outstanding theme.
I would buy a subscription to SMF, but I need just a little more money to buy this electric keyboard piano I want. =D
Motoko-chan, you're totally right but I think you are missing something..., what users see.
I am totally sure that the Design Team are working hard, actually, we can see that this site has suffered a lot of GREAT changes..., but..., what we know about SMF 2.0?
We see the blogs and we know somethings about new features, enhancements, etc..., but we never listen about design.
SMF 2.0 is in development for a long time, and I am glad that you are working to do something good but we also need some screenshots or simple notices about the design, we only hear about code and features.
I don't believe that the critics are to devaluate your work.
Screenshots at the end of this post:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0 (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0)
Quote from: YodaOfDarkness on February 17, 2008, 09:12:48 PM
Screenshots at the end of this post:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0 (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0)
Those are using the "Core" theme.
If I became a charter member, is it possible to help you guys design a better theme?
Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 09:33:20 PM
If I became a charter member, is it possible to help you guys design a better theme?
I don't know that it would help. I suggest talking directly to our customizer lead, winrules.
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 17, 2008, 09:43:10 PM
Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 09:33:20 PM
If I became a charter member, is it possible to help you guys design a better theme?
I don't know that it would help. I suggest talking directly to our customizer lead, winrules.
Okay, I'll pm him and see if he responds.
I just hope he's a nice fellow.
By the way, how big is your current designing team?
About -> The Team
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=23
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 17, 2008, 09:53:51 PM
About -> The Team
Quote from: babjusi on February 17, 2008, 09:54:15 PM
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=23
Thanks friends.
I highly doubt he will reply but I pmed him.
Worth a shot is it not?
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 17, 2008, 09:31:04 PM
Quote from: YodaOfDarkness on February 17, 2008, 09:12:48 PM
Screenshots at the end of this post:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0 (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0)
Those are using the "Core" theme.
But they're still screenshots of the features we talk about, so I don't think it matters :)
For the record, the customise team is two teams in one. Modifications and Design.
However, there's actually four people dedicated to designing on the team, two on the customise team itself, myself and RunicWarrior, IchBin who's on the Doc Team and Bloc who's on the Development Team and is like, how I consider as the supreme overlord for SMF Themes.
Quote from: Gazmanafc on February 17, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
For the record, the customise team is two teams in one. Modifications and Design.
However, there's actually four people dedicated to designing on the team, two on the customise team itself, myself and RunicWarrior, IchBin who's on the Doc Team and Bloc who's on the Development Team and is like, how I consider as the supreme overlord for SMF Themes.
Can I serve you as your liege. :D
Looks like I made a typo. how should've said who. :P
I'm confused.
Who do I ask, if I wish to join your design team?
Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 10:59:26 PM
I'm confused.
Who do I ask, if I wish to join your design team?
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=105023.0
Indeed. j00 dont ask us. We ask j00. ;)
Nothings stopping you from helping with or without the team badge.
Quote from: shadow82x on February 17, 2008, 11:02:22 PM<br />Quote from: Jpg on February 17, 2008, 10:59:26 PM<br />I'm confused.<br />Who do I ask, if I wish to join your design team?<br />
<br /><br /><a href="http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=105023.0" class="bbc_link new_win" target="_blank">http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=105023.0</a><br />
Oh okay.
Thank you. :)
I'll submit some of my personal/non-team kick butt themes within the next couple of days here at Simple Machines.
Quote from: Gazmanafc on February 17, 2008, 11:04:06 PM<br />Indeed. j00 dont ask us. We ask j00.<img src="http://www.simplemachines.org/community/Smileys/simple/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" onresizestart="return false;" id="smiley_1_wink.gif" style="padding-left: 6px;" /><br /><br />Nothings stopping you from helping with or without the team badge.<br />
I'll submit something especially for you within this week.
Some thoughts for everyone, from someone who's been at it a lot longer than most of you...
Comments on the visual aesthetics of the default theme are pretty much entirely useless, whether positive or negative. When the SMF team gets around to designing the new theme, they will basically have to follow the general market. This means it will be light blue with subtle gradients and maybe a few round corners. Whether you personally like that or not is irrelevant. 2.0 will hopefully make it very easy to design and install CSS-only themes, and perhaps they could even alter the installer to suggest a few popular themes when you install the forum.
What is useful are comments about usability and accessibility. What parts of SMF confuse you? What common processes take a long time? What default features do you rarely, if ever, use? What non-default user options do most of your forum's users select? What parts of the forum look cluttered? Which parts do you wish provided more information? And if you use a non-standard user agent for some reason, then we'd appreciate your responses even more.
If you want to help, the best thing to do is simply experiment with various aspects of a theme. There have been many experiments, such as blogs, portals, using new JS libraries and more. I still think that Eren is among the very best of SMF's current theme designers, and I think that some of his themes make an excellent starting point. If you want to experiment with some aspect of a theme but don't want to spend the time cleaning out all of the HTML please do ask him if you can alter one of his themes.
Personally I think that 3.0 should be devoted to the default theme. It's too big to do in one RC, and I can't believe the devs have said that 2.0 is basically feature frozen and yet plan to completely rewrite the default theme.
I know you guys want to see SMF change its theme to be more semantic and other things. But you have to realize this takes time. I am no theme designer, but I could probably scrap some junk together in a couple of hours that might work in Firefox 2, would crash IE6 (as a feature :P), cause opera users to get loads of errors, and not even be html 4 valid. What would most of you think of that? Well I would think most of you would complain about the script, some of you might not use it and others might do both.
The whole point to that is that it would be a really poor theme. I know as a customizer who develops in php, some javascript, xhtml and other technologies that the visual output is the hardest part. I can spend an hour writing coding for my scripts and 2 and a half hours making the visual output xhtml valid, use all classes, follow standards and work on a big array of browsers. This is just for a small script I may be putting up on my site (live usually as my test site I don't test these things that much) for some reason.
SMF is a way bigger script than my scripts I deal with, it takes a while to change all the templates, make them follow standards, use semantics, and validate.
It will indeed take a lot of time. That's why I think it's unwise to consider making the changes to what is said to be feature locked.
It is a tentative feature lock really (in my opinion). The devs are trying to not add more features, but they might slip in. Maybe even to fix a few bugs a feature might appear.
Quote from: Dannii on February 18, 2008, 01:36:38 AM
It will indeed take a lot of time. That's why I think it's unwise to consider making the changes to what is said to be feature locked.
From what I've seen so far I don't think people are asking for a massive change but just for a paint job to brighten it up. It's dull and gloomy and could be brightened up without a huge thing made about it in my opinion.
I would however like to see a whole new thing when the next (SMF 3.0) comes about because this (smf2.0) wont be much of a change to anyone other than the admins from what we've read so far.
Quote from: riker on February 18, 2008, 11:04:38 AM
I would however like to see a whole new thing when the next (SMF 3.0) comes about because this (smf2.0) wont be much of a change to anyone other than the admins from what we've read so far.
You must not be reading all that much.
- WYSIWYG Editor
- OpenID Consumer
- New User E-Mail system (Replacing hide/show e-mail which is still an option)
- Reworked PM form
- PM labels
That's off the top of my head on new features that are visible by the end-user and that we've formally announced. I can think of a few others, but I'm not sure they've been announced.
Quote from: Motoko-chan on February 18, 2008, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: riker on February 18, 2008, 11:04:38 AM
I would however like to see a whole new thing when the next (SMF 3.0) comes about because this (smf2.0) wont be much of a change to anyone other than the admins from what we've read so far.
You must not be reading all that much.
- WYSIWYG Editor
- OpenID Consumer
- New User E-Mail system (Replacing hide/show e-mail which is still an option)
- Reworked PM form
- PM labels
That's off the top of my head on new features that are visible by the end-user and that we've formally announced. I can think of a few others, but I'm not sure they've been announced.
Sorry I don't wish to come a cross the wrong way I'm just speaking as an end user here now who's not noticed
Quote from: riker on February 18, 2008, 11:29:48 AM
Sorry I don't wish to come a cross the wrong way I'm just speaking as an end user here now who's not noticed
It's okay. Some of them aren't on by default, so you wouldn't have.
The WYSIWYG editor isn't on by default. Choose the red A in the post buttons to switch to it, or turn it on in your profile "Look and Layout" area.
OpenID hasn't been turned on here yet, there are still a few bugs to work out regarding profiles and other things.
The e-mail system is active, but you wouldn't notice unless you tried using it. Likewise for the PM items.
I will agree that the default theme of SMF could use some work done to it. When I first saw it, I thought it was rather nice, but I admit it becomes more dull compared to other themes available for SMF and default themes for other forum scripts. I am not the biggest fan of the phpBB 3 default theme, but that being said, I do think it has a nice clean look to it. The output of it seems rather neat too, so I imagine (while haven't personally tried to do so) it would be easy to modify it however you wanted to create your own theme.
I am not basing this off of inside information but rather what developers have said publicly; I think the 2.0 theme changes that will be put in toward the end will be a step in the right direction rather than a total revamped perfectly semantical theme. For us to go all out, that would likely call for just too much work in the short amount of time that we have. And what eldacar said is rather true, we are late in the development stages for this at this point.
As for features added to users for 2.0, I will admit it may not be quite as many as some may of hoped. But personally as a user, I am really quite happy with how SMF is at the moment. Things like a WYSIWYG post form I think will make new people to forums happy as well. When it comes down to it, I think members like nice special effects that save time, such as AJAX type additions. The developers have stated they would like to add some more AJAX where it is reasonable to do so. This will likely improve the average user experience.
Quote from: akabugeyes on February 18, 2008, 11:56:44 AM
.......Things like a WYSIWYG post form I think will make new people to forums happy as well. ......
There should be a AJAX option to be able to dynamically resize the "input-window" like Vbulletin does. For what i need a WYSIWYG editor when i can't use all of its advantages? The text window is simply to small for it in my opinion...
Regards, Christian
Quote from: riker on February 18, 2008, 11:04:38 AMFrom what I've seen so far I don't think people are asking for a massive change but just for a paint job to brighten it up. It's dull and gloomy and could be brightened up without a huge thing made about it in my opinion.
No, a small minority of people want a paint job. Most people want the entire theme to be rewritten from the ground up.
Quote from: akabugeyes on February 18, 2008, 11:56:44 AMI am not basing this off of inside information but rather what developers have said publicly; I think the 2.0 theme changes that will be put in toward the end will be a step in the right direction rather than a total revamped perfectly semantical theme. For us to go all out, that would likely call for just too much work in the short amount of time that we have. And what eldacar said is rather true, we are late in the development stages for this at this point.
If this is the case, then the changes are useless. We really do need a completely revamped theme. If you were to say, remove all the <table>s and replacing them with <div>s, while keeping all the inline styles, JS and use presentational class names, for theme designers it would be no better than what we have now.
Quote from: akabugeyes on February 18, 2008, 11:56:44 AM
I am not basing this off of inside information but rather what developers have said publicly; I think the 2.0 theme changes that will be put in toward the end will be a step in the right direction rather than a total revamped perfectly semantical theme. For us to go all out, that would likely call for just too much work in the short amount of time that we have. And what eldacar said is rather true, we are late in the development stages for this at this point.
Considering the fact that a semantic default theme has been a pressing demand since Core was publicly released more than two years ago, and probably before that as well, I have to admit that a partial solution would be more than a little disappointing :-\
I appreciate the amount of work involved in this task, but no one - least of all SMF - would benefit from a quick solution. The version change has presented you with the perfect opportunity to do this right once and for all, and if what you say is indeed the plan, I really hope the team and developers will reconsider. If it delays the release of 2.0, so be it!
Quote from: akabugeyes on February 18, 2008, 11:56:44 AMAs for features added to users for 2.0, I will admit it may not be quite as many as some may of hoped. But personally as a user, I am really quite happy with how SMF is at the moment.
I agree that there isn't a whole lot you can add to the user experience within the realms of forum software, but in my opinion, there could be a lot to gain by simply refining already existing features and/or their interface. Take a look at the tiny and anonymous "Insert Quote" link in "Topic Summary" for example... Does it come as a surprise that regular users don't seem to even know it's there? And for the select few who do know about it, the lack of a page index (to access posts which fall outside the admin set post limit of the Topic Summary) severely limits its value in active topics.
First off, I will move this to General Discussion and Feedback, since this isn't a comment related to the feedback about our site but our software.
When 1.1 was released it was to late to do any major things such as a new default theme. The developers are planning big things, but proper work takes time. SMF 2.0 has been in the works since 1.1 RC2, and they are still making improvements to how things work overall in it. If you guys knew the type of work the developers put in to make a SMF what is is you would might sustain whiplash from the shock. It isn't easy for them to do what they do. Aswell Remember SMF 2.0 is not final yet, there is still time for the developers to change a lot of things.
SleePy, I was on the team, I know how much work they do. But I also know how recently they started working on the new theme. It is too big a job for an RC! It deserves a full release. I think theme changes like this are really going to be a bigger job than the database changes, because it's really not systematic. If there was a bug in the new database system, the whole forum would be affected. Each template that is changed will require hours of testing. If you go ahead trying to push this new theme with 2.0, I'll honestly feel very sorry for the days Grudge will need to spend on it.
I think that 2.0 would be the perfect time for it. It is a time when the changes are severe enough that it will cause a great majority of current themes and mods to need to be rewritten. That gives an open opportunity for those things to be recreated or redone based on whatever new theme, which would lead to a better propagation of things down the road, rather than having the majority of themes and such be using an outdated code base.
I'd say it'd make sense more for 2.0 than 2.1.
But i think we're talking two different things here, some are preaching HTML, others are looking for aesthetics. Both have their points.
One thing I have noted... although the nature of the conversation has changed, is that the proliferation of phpbb vs. the proliferation of SMF is somehow a measure of "success".
This is akin to saying that Apple should try to be Microsoft, if they "want to be successful".
Personally, I will tell you why I chose SMF over phpbb and the others.
If a bug is discovered...?
Fixed. ASAP.
If a security issue is discovered...?
Fixed. ASAP.
In fact, its this dedication to creating a stable and inpenetratable forum program with the ease and flexibility to integrate with the rest of a website proper [SSI, anyone?] that is a selling point for me. That the developing team demands a stringent adherance to packaging modifications and themes not just for coding and safety issues of today, but for FUTURE advancements in the software!
And they do this solely on donations, in their spare time, at no cost to anyone who wants to use it.
Do you folks truly grasp just how rare that is...?
Don't get me wrong... because I can see that the default theme could be better presented with some modifications and minor adjustments. But seriously, it is extremely functional and works well... even as "boring" as it appears. It also is apparent that the design team wants to incorporate several changes into it, but they are moving with caution. This is not to be chastised, but instead should be commended.
Cave to pressure and release a crappy product full of holes...? That's Microsoft thinking.
Naw, I prefer them to remain the high end product they are...
QuoteI think that 2.0 would be the perfect time for it. It is a time when the changes are severe enough that it will cause a great majority of current themes and mods to need to be rewritten. That gives an open opportunity for those things to be recreated or redone based on whatever new theme, which would lead to a better propagation of things down the road, rather than having the majority of themes and such be using an outdated code base.
The perfect time was alpha 1...
Quote from: Dannii on February 18, 2008, 08:20:44 PMNo, a small minority of people want a paint job. Most people want the entire theme to be rewritten from the ground up.
Is that a fact or an opinion put down as a fact ?
It's a fact among people whose opinions I consider worth considering? :P
Quote from: Chriss Cohn on February 18, 2008, 03:12:55 PMThere should be a AJAX option to be able to dynamically resize the "input-window" like Vbulletin does.
Why would you use AJAX when simple javascript would do the job? What is it with the buzzword AJAX that people wrongly use it for all manner of things.
Quote from: Dannii on February 19, 2008, 05:19:48 AM
It's a fact among people whose opinions I consider worth considering? :P
Thanks I think people will be building a good picture now
Danni,
The semantic theme hasn't only just been started. Bloc has been working on it for months - we've only just done the first commit to SVN in the last week. I agree it requires a lot of work but I *hope* we can make it happen - I see it as one of the most essential things about 2.0
Okay :) I know you like to commit things quickly, but if Bloc wanted to test it all first before committing he's allowed to I suppose.
I personally think that all SMF has to do is make their administrator menu and member permissions easier to navigate and modify, and that's it. Other than that, I like SMF much more than phpBB.
For me, the "standard skin" was not an option. I didn't plan on sticking with it, anyway.
Quote from: RatedZ on February 19, 2008, 09:40:22 AM
I personally think that all SMF has to do is make their administrator menu and member permissions easier to navigate and modify, and that's it. Other than that, I like SMF much more than phpBB.
I think this is already in 2.0, admin features only in the admin panel, mod features only in (one new) the mod panel.
I will say there is a lack of great features and the ones they have added isn't going to rock your world. The only let down for SMF is the theme design, it's outdated and needs a update. If this was done then SMF will be really on the attack against other forum softwares.
At this point..., I prefer one 2.0 with one lack of design than wait more time.
I am hearing about 2.0 from so long time, and I know that this worths the wainting time but at this point I think is better the new core theme in 2.1 than in 2.0.
Quote from: HecKel on February 19, 2008, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: RatedZ on February 19, 2008, 09:40:22 AM
I personally think that all SMF has to do is make their administrator menu and member permissions easier to navigate and modify, and that's it. Other than that, I like SMF much more than phpBB.
I think this is already in 2.0, admin features only in the admin panel, mod features only in (one new) the mod panel.
I didn't realize that 2.0 was available yet, though I've been seeing some subject-matter about it. I guess I'm still stuck on SMF 1.1.
Is available here, you're using 2.0 just right now :P
Quote from: HecKel on February 19, 2008, 11:42:38 AM
Is available here, you're using 2.0 just right now :P
I was only saying the other day that it's very hard to tell that this is the new 2.0 software
Quote from: HecKel on February 19, 2008, 11:42:38 AM
Is available here, you're using 2.0 just right now :P
Oh, Ok. :) Is there a way to tell if I'm using the updated software on my forum? I'm pretty sure I saw something about "1.1" somewhere, while trying to find something under the Admin menu. :)
You are using 1.1. 2.0 is released only to Charter Members at the moment.
Quote from: JayBachatero on February 19, 2008, 03:18:07 PM
You are using 1.1. 2.0 is released only to Charter Members at the moment.
Thanks for the info. How do I become a Charter member?
http://www.simplemachines.org/charter/
All of the information is there :)
Note that 2.0 is a closed beta for a reason, it's not stable enough (in our eyes) to release to the general public yet. We do not recommend its use on a public site unless you are willing to put up with bugs and are comfortable doing manual patching.
Thanks for the info, Black Mage. Hopefully, v2.0 will get straightened out soon, and be good enough for the general public. It sounds like good stuff.
I'm not "inclined" enough to be doing manual patches and stuff like that.
Quote from: Gwydion Frost on February 19, 2008, 03:59:05 AM
One thing I have noted... although the nature of the conversation has changed, is that the proliferation of phpbb vs. the proliferation of SMF is somehow a measure of "success".
This is akin to saying that Apple should try to be Microsoft, if they "want to be successful".
Personally, I will tell you why I chose SMF over phpbb and the others.
If a bug is discovered...?
Fixed. ASAP.
If a security issue is discovered...?
Fixed. ASAP.
In fact, its this dedication to creating a stable and inpenetratable forum program with the ease and flexibility to integrate with the rest of a website proper [SSI, anyone?] that is a selling point for me. That the developing team demands a stringent adherance to packaging modifications and themes not just for coding and safety issues of today, but for FUTURE advancements in the software!
And they do this solely on donations, in their spare time, at no cost to anyone who wants to use it.
Do you folks truly grasp just how rare that is...?*
...snip
before the sentimentalist syrup makes me gag - let me point out that there ARE known bugs and/or security issues with SMF (and any/every software)
It's a balancing act that needs to be danced, weighing releasing a new version vs the possibility of harm (real or imagined) of the "bug" or security issue.
Fixing a "security" risk, that changes the way things work, may in ITSELF introduce bigger security risks, as attack vectors will have to be recalculated and you have backward compatibility issues to deal with as well.
case in point: the way SMF determines and stores IP addresses has a bug, and that may lead to a security issue of sorts, not of your forum being hijacked, but confidence in your data -who made that post? sort of thing.
It hasnt been 'fixed' and I'm now of the opinion that it should not be - but it SHOULD be documented and made clear to give people the chance to make an informed decision about that behaviour - perhaps even made into a config option? ( yeah we have too many damn options already! :P)
Dont trivialize the importance of having a brandspanking new look for version 2.0
Making a full number version change demands at least new spoilers, rims and headlights (as well as more horsepower under the hood!)Seeing the themes that are already there shows it can be easier than the nightmare that people are quaking about!
Are you talking about the X_FORWARDED_FOR issue? If not that has been fixed AFAIK.
actually it hasnt, there were several issues related to the handling of the IP address in the manner it was doing it. One was the inability to ban the user, since the IP address used for banning wastnt the real IP to begin with.
The fix I believe tried to address it by saving multiple IP addresses (IP1, IP2) but it STILL OVERWRITES REMOTE_ADDR - this means that the 'who's online' for example will show the spoofed address (also the IP address in the post )
/offtopic
the thing is that most Middle East , much of England, Mexico ISP use X_Forwarded_for so you have to be careful.
There are known bugs with 1.1 but they are trivial enough not to warrant a release (If we made a release every time a bug was reported we'd be on 1.1.99 and no-one would ever upgrade regardless of the fix required). Instead we wrap any bug fixes in with a security release (i.e. if we have to patch something due to a security report we fix any remaining bugs at the same time).
We've discussed the IP thing to death now. The fix in 1.1 is perfectly adequate (Particularly considering secunia etc do not even consider this a security problem) and 2.0 implements the full change.
Totally agreed.
Quote from: riker on February 19, 2008, 12:16:32 PM
I was only saying the other day that it's very hard to tell that this is the new 2.0 software
It's a bit different for a non-staff member, although for staff members (and especially admins) it's quite a bit different :)
Many of the features are admin side like Tristian said. Whats left that can be done user side without it getting seriously bloaty with stuff like Galleries and Blogs. :P
Just a request... if there will be a new default theme, please don't make the tabs menu like the actual ones, that is what's completely messed up with the actual design!
A simple modification can do miracles (in my opinion of course, look my signature)
Quote from: Gazmanafc on March 08, 2008, 12:53:28 PM
Many of the features are admin side like Tristian said. Whats left that can be done user side without it getting seriously bloaty with stuff like Galleries and Blogs. :P
I think the answer to that is pretty easy. SMF should make more of an effort to promote its own mods and add-ons, and let it be known that these extensions will portalfy SMF. There should be links on the front page to commonly used mods such as blogs and galleries, and that will enable SMF to brand itself as a thorough online system rather than just a forum. It won't be a change so much in actuality than one in image, but that's all it takes.
I only hope that SMF don't do the same that phpBB..., a lot of time to put one new release outside.
I really like SMF (I am not yet Charter, but I'll be in some days with another nick that my other forum admins can use), but I think that is better baby steps than giant steps..., we are wainting for so long for the new version, I know that the improvements will worth it, but still a long wait.
Personally, I prefer few improvements in one new release than one new software (will be one new software...), and I am waiting for a software that I will have to learn how to use it and set all the new definitions properly...
just my (another) 2 cents.
Quote from: HecKel on April 21, 2008, 06:49:17 PM
I only hope that SMF don't do the same that phpBB..., a lot of time to put one new release outside.
We won't be that long. Features are frozen and we are only focusing on bugfixes right now. Of course, "it'll be ready when it's ready", but it will be serious failure if it extends into a new year.
Quote from: HecKel on April 21, 2008, 06:49:17 PM
I really like SMF (I am not yet Charter, but I'll be in some days with another nick that my other forum admins can use), but I think that is better baby steps than giant steps..., we are wainting for so long for the new version, I know that the improvements will worth it, but still a long wait.
Personally, I prefer few improvements in one new release than one new software (will be one new software...), and I am waiting for a software that I will have to learn how to use it and set all the new definitions properly...
A lot of the progress has been in the infrastructure of SMF, not so much the polish. In order to grow, we had to shore up the foundation and make sure it could handle things better. As a result, we've been able to put some nice features in (mostly from the admin side) without hurting performance. That is something to be proud of. With this step, we can start to reach into some interesting and innovative areas while knowing that the code we are working on top of is strong and fast.
For what I see in beta 3, the wainting worth it!
I am not complaining at all, and for one work made by a team of volunteers, it's something REALLY great, I know about the end of the year, you already said that, but still be a lot of time waiting and people starts beings impatient :P
tnks for the reply ;)
I'm very particular about design, here's my two cents. I think the SMF default theme is decent and nice, its clean , neat and the colour used is pleasant. Not overly loud. Infact since SMF is a forum software, this default theme is suited to it needs. There can always be improvement in the next release, things can always get better. Also no need for comparision as we really wouldn't want most forum to copy each others design style. So what I'm saying is I'm happy with the current SMF forum theme and will continue to use it until the SMF2.0 has its stable release, I believe it will be bigger and better, if I don't screw it up with intalling too many unnecessary mod and do not know how to fix all the errors of my own mistakes...haha.
SMF already IS successful! It's come a long long way and continues to be developed and grow. Certainly users can expect to performance and security to always come ahead of polish and that's worked so far.
Quote from: Alan S on February 16, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
I like the current theme on SM.org , Personally i'm hoping that it will become the default theme for 2.0
Ye, i like this. If this would be the default theme i wouldn't change it =D
What i think of phpBB. It's so hard to use.. vBulletin is quite easy.. But: SMF #1
phpbb - messy features/code, bad support, unfriendly community
vb - a good software but the admin panel is hard to use
smf - unstopable ;)
vB - All the options you could ever possibly want, whenever you don't want them. :P
Not to rag on them, just my personal opinion. Though I preferred vB's membergroup inheritance until SMF 2.0 included it.
Quote from: Eliana Tamerin on May 04, 2008, 01:56:05 AM
vB - All the options you could ever possibly want, whenever you don't want them. :P
Doesn't seem to have affected the speed of VB or the huge number of people wanting it though has it. It's that what really gets me going when people go on about wanting to keep SMF tied down.......
yes.. we need better skin!!
hey
why don't we put some money together and get a professional designer to create a theme?
i don't mind putting in some donation.
but i hope we get to choose where our money goes :D
why do you need a better skin? There are over 400 alternative Themes available on the theme site....
And, if you want to hire someone, go right ahead. That will have no effect on what SMF distributes as the default theme(s).
What's wrong with the hundreds of skins in the Themes Site? There are several designs that I would call professional.
And fyi, this site got a facelift just last year. I don't think a new skin is going to be planned for it anytime soon.
QuoteDoesn't seem to have affected the speed of VB or the huge number of people wanting it though has it. It's that what really gets me going when people go on about wanting to keep SMF tied down.......
Nor has the simplicity of SMF seem to have affected the number of people wanting it. I can't recall who exactly said it, but if you want bloat on SMF, it's quite easy to make it bloated. There are many large mods which add functionality similar to what vBulletin and IPB have by default. To note, I have rarely seen every aspect of vBulletin and IPB used on a single forum, so that kind of nixes out the argument that their features are really necessary.
@Eliana Tamerin, while I agree that too much feature make a forum bloated, on the other hand it is much better to have some of those options and not use them if you prefer so, than not to have them at all. In many forums that I have been a member/still am, most user ask for those features and you as an admin must keep them happy. So having those features by default is much easier than adding them as mods and any time a new version is out you will have to deal with the hassle of un-installing and re-installing them again. Not to speak about the security that most mods might pose to the forum. If I had a choise, I would prefer a bloated by default-feature forum than one bloated by mods. But that is my opinion, how I see it.
actually, I disagree with you...
I'd rather take the time to install a mod that I want (and potentially add more overhead to my system) than have some random group determine that everything should be present by default.
Seriously, with SMF's package manager, adding mods is easy (and with 2.0, even easier!)
There are some things which deserve to be features. MOST of the requests are stuff that really should stay as mods.
@babjusi
That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Just understand that SMF is not built with that mindset, and I don't think it ever will be.
I don't see any of the other popular free forum softwares building their software in this manner either. PHPBB, MyBB, XMB, etc. Most of them stick with the simple default installation, and then mods on top to expand them. I've only seen paid-for software adding in all the bloat on top of the forums, which, IMO, is just fine. Makes me feel a bit better that they're both asking about $200 for a full license, I know if I were paying $200 for either one of them, I'd want a whole lot more than just a forum software; I can get that here for free.
Also, you need not worry about security with mods. The customization team thoroughly checks the security of mods to ensure that there are no exploits available. The SMF Shoutbox (newer version, not Deep's) was recently removed from the Mod Site because it allowed for a SQL injection, an example of the Customization Team's tenacity in checking even already-approved mods to ensure the best security for all SMF users.
That doesn't mean, however, that bugs/errors/security issues CAN'T get past the customization team. Like any other human process it can be flawed.
The checking does generally catch many simple and easily fixed errors, however :)
Oh, very true. But it's not like mods are just automatically approved. If there's some egregious security issue, it's probably 98% certain that it'll be caught by the customization team.
Quote from: Kindred on May 13, 2008, 03:37:48 PM
actually, I disagree with you...
I'd rather take the time to install a mod that I want (and potentially add more overhead to my system) than have some random group determine that everything should be present by default.
Seriously, with SMF's package manager, adding mods is easy (and with 2.0, even easier!)
There are some things which deserve to be features. MOST of the requests are stuff that really should stay as mods.
Yes, I know that it is very easy installing mods via the Package Manager. But you shouldn''t forget also that a great deal of the webmasters are just starting out and if they want to use a custom theme, they can''t install the mods manually. It is like UFO language to them and when they try it they mess up their forum. This is based on my observations here where there are hundreds of topics about this very same thing.
@Eliana Tamerin, I totally agree with you about the first part of your post. I understand that those paid forums must meet their customer''s demands and needs. However, about the security of the mods, I know how hard the staff work here in making sure that every mod is thoroughly checked before being aproved. But still, I remember a while back that Daniel15''s shop mod had a vulnebrity which was exploited and tens of sites were hit. My point is, that adding many mods to the forum, it really poses a security risk. It creates holes to the system which can lead to small time irritating hackings.
Anyway, you guys have your own opinion about this matter and me and others have our own. The most important thing is that we can discuss in a very matured way with each-other without letting the discussion get out of hand or trying to push our ideas to each other like mine is right and yours wrong or vice-versa.
Quote from: babjusi on May 13, 2008, 03:31:42 PM
If I had a choise, I would prefer a bloated by default-feature forum than one bloated by mods.
There is always TikiWiki (http://tikiwiki.org/). It includes a forum, wiki, blog, image gallery, cms/article system, link directory, bug tracker, and more (http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Features). I think we can call that feature bloat. (And an example of how trying to do everything decent means you do nothing well - unless the software suddenly jumped in quality since I last saw.)
Quote from: babjusi on May 13, 2008, 04:04:18 PM
But still, I remember a while back that Daniel15''s shop mod had a vulnebrity which was exploited and tens of sites were hit. My point is, that adding many mods to the forum, it really poses a security risk. It creates holes to the system which can lead to small time irritating hackings.
As code increases in complexity, the chances of there being a bug (security or otherwise) also increases. There is no guarantee that if such a mod was in the core of SMF that a similar security bug would or wouldn't have occurred.
Quote from: babjusi on May 13, 2008, 04:04:18 PM
Anyway, you guys have your own opinion about this matter and me and others have our own. The most important thing is that we can discuss in a very matured way with each-other without letting the discussion get out of hand or trying to push our ideas to each other like mine is right and yours wrong or vice-versa.
Agreed, and this is one of the things I really like about this community. The vast majority can have reasoned discussions on things without battles erupting.
Thanks for the TikiWiki link Motoko-chan. I had never heard of it until now. And yes, Smf has the greatest community and not only in that aspect but also in many different aspects, like being very friendly and helpful. I really love hanging around here
I do understand what you are saying babjusi, although IMHO, adding loads of extra features by default (whether they're used or not) will just increase code overheads and ultimately loading times. Maybe not by significant amounts, although I don't see much need in adding loads of new features when the majority of people won't use them. :)
Personally I feel that SMF does get the balance right - there are enough features for the average webmaster (IMHO), and extra features (via mods) can be installed at the click of a few buttons.
I know I prefer what SMF does compared to, say, vBulletin - the latter is really bloated, to the point where the latest version now has it's own social networking features. Whilst that may be cool, forums aren't the same as social networks, hence to try and merge the two (IMHO) will just lead to increased loading times for 90% of the users.
I really like where SMF 2.0 is leading. Several of the new features are easy to enable and disable, and they don't hurt load times if disabled.
QuoteIn my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
Its to me basically a neutral skin for setting a forum up and can be fine if you know little of SMF and want to keep things simple to begin.
There are hundreds of skins for SMF and I think most people can find one they like or make one since the arcitecture of SMF is very versatile for this.I tried PHPBB before SMF and it lasted a week before I realised the features I wanted were not available to PHPBB and were in SMF so the skin played no real part in deciding what software to use.It was down to what I could add to SMF that made me use it. ;)
Quote from: Kindred on May 13, 2008, 02:30:16 PM
why do you need a better skin? There are over 400 alternative Themes available on the theme site....
And, if you want to hire someone, go right ahead. That will have no effect on what SMF distributes as the default theme(s).
If I was one of the dev team behind SMF 2 who had put in so much time in making it I'd expect it to be given a good bright & fresh looking skin. What people should be asking is why would they want the dull & gloomy one leaving after putting so much work into this ! that doesn't exactly attract attention does it
Much like most of SMF 2.0 is a backstage upgrade, with most new features in the admin panel and the new moderating panel, similarly, the theme update is the same way. Bloc is currently working on a more semantic theme for SMF, which will most likely retain a similar shape and form as the current theme. However, coding-wise, it should making theming easier for those unfamiliar with the process.
Good Morning,
Thanks for starting this discussion! I'm a big fan of SMF, but I agree there are some elements that need improving. I agree that the default theme is extremely clunky (I'd say ugly).
But for me, the biggest issue is the limitation of the Search function. Search is at the heart of any successful forum. Not being able to search by username is a serious flaw.
Please keep in mind that I am a fan of SMF and I want to see it succeed. The SMF developers have done an amazing job creating a great forum system. My criticism is meant as a way to push for improvements, not to put down the software.
Matt
riker, the default theme that comes with smf has to be simpel enough for people to modify yet have all the features etc, the look has changed over the years, and im sure in future releases it may change more, thats the point of growth, there will never ever be a theme that everyone likes thats why we have theme site, you do not need to use the default on your forum.
RunicWarrior,
I definitely agree that the default theme is just a start and one can install a different theme. However, most of the different themes available from this site are pretty close to the SMF default theme, just with some very basic color changes. In other words, there is not yet a lot of available variety in SMF themes.
That's why I went outside SMF for the themes I use in my sites (see my signature).
Matt
Yet those themes, too, are based on the default theme. They also look very similar to Crip's (http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?action=profile;u=28329) themes.
Quote from: Matthew Schenker on May 14, 2008, 09:00:09 AM
However, most of the different themes available from this site are pretty close to the SMF default theme, just with some very basic color changes. In other words, there is not yet a lot of available variety in SMF themes.
I agree alot on the Theme Site are just variations of the default but there are some deigners that make there own coding, look at koni, *eren, Bloc etc
I don't think anybody can claim that the WikiStyle theme by Bloc is based on the default at all. Probably one of the best examples of a non-default-based theme with a radically redesigned interface.
Quote from: RunicWarrior on May 14, 2008, 08:50:35 AM
riker, the default theme that comes with smf has to be simpel enough for people to modify yet have all the features etc,
Does that mean it has to be dull & gloomy.............I think not it just takes a little imagination 8)
I disagree... I think the nice blue theme is bright and cheerful...
How can someone think that blue and white is dull and gloomy? ???
Quote from: riker on May 14, 2008, 10:48:01 AM
Does that mean it has to be dull & gloomy.............I think not it just takes a little imagination 8)
I dont think its dull or gloomy, as ive said you dont have to use it and there are color variations available.
Quote from: Kindred on May 14, 2008, 10:49:42 AM
I disagree... I think the nice blue theme is bright and cheerful...
How can someone think that blue and white is dull and gloomy? ???
If you mean this one then yes I'd agree and say it does look alot fresher
(https://www.simplemachines.org/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg107.imageshack.us%2Fimg107%2F3777%2Fblueid6.th.jpg&hash=0a507a2c724695ab4856d040d3a3de0601483940) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blueid6.jpg)
if however you mean this still being the default then I'd say it's now showing it's age compared to the competition but then the main SMF forum doesn't even use this now ;)
(https://www.simplemachines.org/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg107.imageshack.us%2Fimg107%2F7726%2Fdefault15zt6.th.jpg&hash=62c29d0b7b2035c67e1d2b1f3949a2cd6d6b182b) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=default15zt6.jpg)
The SM site has almost always used a unique theme as well, though, to be fair with that, not that I disagree :P
I agree that the current default is a tad bit aged in terms of coding vs. the standards of today versus the standards of 2005-2006, but I disagree that it is "old material."
Look back to when the theme was released what people thought of it. I think people are just bored with that particular default theme, more than not.
Quote from: Tristan Perry on May 13, 2008, 05:28:08 PM
I do understand what you are saying babjusi, although IMHO, adding loads of extra features by default (whether they're used or not) will just increase code overheads and ultimately loading times. Maybe not by significant amounts, although I don't see much need in adding loads of new features when the majority of people won't use them. :)
I didn''t mean that all the mods that are present at the mod site should be included as default features. Just a couple extra features. I am sure that it won''t affect the loading time that much. And the times where forums were as means to only posting are long gone ;)
Whereas about he default theme I stand by my earlier opinion. It looks nice and pleasing to the eye. I don''t think it needs to be changed, but that is only my personal opinion
I think a good example of mods becoming features is Custom Profile Fields. There are several others that are now features, such as the Membergroup Legend mod and the Group Moderators mod, but the CPF mod is the most well-known. So mods do become features sometimes, it just depends on whether or not the mod will actually assist most of the community or not, and to make it integrate without slowing down SMF.
Quote from: metallica48423 on May 14, 2008, 12:32:06 PM
The SM site has almost always used a unique theme as well, though, to be fair with that, not that I disagree :P
I agree that the current default is a tad bit aged in terms of coding vs. the standards of today versus the standards of 2005-2006, but I disagree that it is "old material."
Can you tell me of one of the competition that uses a theme (default) as old as SMF's default then and then we can actually get to the point instead of standing up for history ;)
I wonder why some SMF people stand up fighting for the old default theme when it's clearly a let down for the product. Again if the default skin was so good this site would be using it!
we did for over 2 years.
and we used a spin on one of the older themes for a several years as well.
The default also isn't very old. It is only around a year and a half to two years old, or thereabouts. It is the 1.1 theme. Obviously the defaults not going to change within the same line. That would require a complete overhaul for theme and mod designers
This theme is, as has been said before, a test, a spin on templating ideas. The default theme's age or loooks isn't relevant to why we don't use it here.
Besides, it has been said before, the focus is on semantic and proper coding behind the theme first. Such offers greater versatility for theme designers and general SMF users to edit and customize things in the theme.
I'm not arguing that a new theme wouldn't be nice. What i'm saying is theres other things than just the look. It has to function well and it also needs to look good.
That is just my opinion, but i'm also not involved in the development process either. Personally I am not opposed to change in the least simply that change is more complex than slapping new images and new colors and packaging it up. Its got to be very well thought out. Without that, in my view, change for the sake of change isn't always the way to go.
I note you couldn't tell me of another forum who spends so much time updating the software and then leaves the old dull/gloomy theme as default (my opinion has been given)
Thanks for your input.
Quote from: riker on May 15, 2008, 03:19:10 AM
Can you tell me of one of the competition that uses a theme (default) as old as SMF's default then and then we can actually get to the point instead of standing up for history ;)
Both vBulletin & IPB's current default themes are older than SMF's.
Quote from: Ben_S on May 15, 2008, 04:38:51 AM
Quote from: riker on May 15, 2008, 03:19:10 AM
Can you tell me of one of the competition that uses a theme (default) as old as SMF's default then and then we can actually get to the point instead of standing up for history ;)
Both vBulletin & IPB's current default themes are older than SMF's.
Both have been updated over the years to keep them looking fresh but I think you already know that. I think it's kind of funny to come up with that statement when both are so widely used on the net.
Quote from: riker on May 15, 2008, 05:20:28 AM
Both have been updated over the years to keep them looking fresh but I think you already know that.
You asked you got the answer. Neither look fresh IMO but thats not what you asked so I fail to see your point.
QuoteI think it's kind of funny to come up with that statement when both are so widely used on the net.
It's kind of funny I answered your question ??? ::)
Quote from: riker on May 15, 2008, 05:20:28 AM
I think it's kind of funny to come up with that statement when both are so widely used on the net.
It's widely used because for both software, it's practically impossible to change them even if you wanted to. With us, at least you can move stuff around as you please.
It doent matter what colour the paint is,its whats under the hood that matters. Id rather have the default theme on a stable forum than a pretty theme on an unstable one.
If it is beyond the capability of people to go to the theme site and find a nice one they like then what are they doing anyway trying to run web sites?
Quote from: Ben_S on May 15, 2008, 05:48:30 AM
Neither look fresh IMO
And you speak for the whole world I take it or is that an opinion
Quote from: nightbre on May 15, 2008, 07:38:07 AM
It doent matter what colour the paint is,its whats under the hood that matters. Id rather have the default theme on a stable forum than a pretty theme on an unstable one.
If it is beyond the capability of people to go to the theme site and find a nice one they like then what are they doing anyway trying to run web sites?
Then again for people to put so much work into this product only to have others not really bothered about it's default skin is something else too
IMO stands for In My Opinion. So yes, that was an opinion.
Remember, riker, not everyone is going to share your opinion. The best way to keep this thread productive is to offer constructive comments and respect everyone's input. You may not share the same viewpoints as others, just as others don't share your same viewpoints. Respecting others' opinions is the best way for us to really get productive comments here.
I think what makes SMF attractive is not its default skin. That's something that, in my view, is easily looked past. I could just as easily say that the default skin for IPB or vBulletin or MyBB or a horde of other forums softwares are bland and untasteful, and yet their products are solid. If SMF weren't around, I probably wouldn't think twice about paying for a vBulletin license, since the product is so powerful and it is also very extensible and has a variety of themes available. I don't like their default theme, but that's not a reason for me to shy away from their product.
QuoteThen again for people to put so much work into this product only to have others not really bothered about it's default skin is something else too
To me the default skin is as the name suggests...A default skin to get you started.
It may not be the best looking in the world but it certainly isnt the worst ive seen.If no theme options were present to change things then yes you may think that its not good but you can have or make any theme you can think off.
I would still use SMF on default and do regulary for the ease of it when messing with mods.I also have users on my site who choose default themselves.
This to me is a thread because you dont like default which is fair comment but you also must respect others who like to use the default and dont think its dull and gloomy ,maybe your just bored of it and want to see a change.
And for those who are bored of it, there are hundreds of themes in our Theme Site. I know Bloc has quite a few over at http://tinyportal.net that haven't been submitted to the mod site, along with his paid themes. Dzinerstudio.com also has a few paid themes now.
Oh, and congrats on 100 posts, nightbre.
Good Afternoon,
While we're on the subject of SMF succeeding, let me throw out one big weakness of the "Search" function. My members often complain that they cannot do a search by username from the "Search" screen. Yes, I know you can do the same thing from the "Members" area, but regular (non-techie) people don't like all the extra steps.
I've mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating since it's relevant to this discussion.
I really like SMF, and want to see it succeed, and I offer this as constructive criticism. But PHPBB and vBulletin both allow members to search by username.
Matt
The title of this whole Topic must be changed as it is not accurate. SMF is already successful
babjusi,
I agree!
Here are my suggested titles:
"If SMF wants to be more successful"
"If SMF wants to be perfect"
"If SMF wants to be the best BB on the planet"
"If SMF wants to dominate its competition"
OK, the last couple may be a little extreme!
Matt
QuoteOh, and congrats on 100 posts, nightbre.
thank you hun ;)
Quote from: Matthew Schenker on May 14, 2008, 08:46:57 AM
Good Morning,
But for me, the biggest issue is the limitation of the Search function. Search is at the heart of any successful forum. Not being able to search by username is a serious flaw.
I'm confused as you can search by username? Or do you mean *only* by username?
Quote from: Grudge on May 16, 2008, 08:09:12 AM
I'm confused as you can search by username? Or do you mean *only* by username?
I mean only by username.
This option is avalable in vBulletin and PHPBB, but not in SMF. I wonder why, since it just seems so obvious it belongs in "Search."
Matt
I do see your point and it's something I always thought we should have. I know you can see individual users posts from their profiles but that doesn't help if the poster was a guest, or you can't quite remember their name.
I always wondered the same thing. Why this wasn't possible to do. Then again we do have the ability to view posts on the profile section for users. Not sure if other systems.
Jay, viewing from profiles only really works if you know the user, and their not a guest.
Well if you're searching by posts by a specific user then you know the user :P.
Like the others have said. Just cause you like a mod or something else doesn't mean that it should a default feature. There are a few mods that I would love to see as features but I know that just cause I like something, doesn't mean that it should be added in.
Good Morning,
I love SMF, but this search weakness is a growing problem in my forum.
Let me lay out my arguments, and hopefully I will catch the attention of someone who can improve the search function!
I run a woodworking forum that is expanding really fast. My members are smart and creative, but they are not high-tech. When I tell them that they have to search for "information" in one screen, and "usernames" in another, they just don't like it. And I don't blame them. When you see a function called "search" you expect to be able to use it to do all your...well...searches! Non-techies do not automatically know that going to the "Members" screen also provides another, separate search function.
I'll say this as often as it takes: If you make searching difficult to use, members are less likely to use it. If people have to switch back and forth between "Search" and "Members" to do effective searches, they will avoid using it.
Let's use an analogy. Imagine if Google forced you go to one screen if you wanted to search for "data" and another screen if you wanted to search just by "name." Imagine if you entered "John Smith" and Google gave you this error message:
Did you forget to put something to search for?
I think most Google users would say that's nuts! Well, that's precisely what happens in SMF.
One more thing to inspire SMF developers: PHPBB and vBulletin both allow searches by username alone.
Matt
Maybe you could consider using a Google Co-op search rather than SMF's. A lot of websites do that now. Though of course you'll only be able to search public boards if you do that.
And only if Google has already crawled your pages, unfortunately.
Grudge/Jay: would you like this logged to the bugtracker as a feature for DE?
Quote from: metallica48423 on May 17, 2008, 03:50:14 PM
Grudge/Jay: would you like this logged to the bugtracker as a feature for DE?
What's "DE"?
Matt
DE is short for "Development Edition" it's the former codename that was given to 2.0 while it was being developed.
Quote from: Gazmanafc on May 18, 2008, 08:37:12 AM
DE is short for "Development Edition" it's the former codename that was given to 2.0 while it was being developed.
OK, that explains it! I'd really like to see the Search enhancement become a reality. We don't want SMF to have such an obvious weakness in comparison to its main competitors, do we?
Let me know if I can help move this forward in any way. I'm willing to volunteer my time and effort. It's important!
Matt
Matt,
Have you looked at the Sphinx search enhancement?
Quote from: Kindred on May 19, 2008, 07:49:33 AM
Have you looked at the Sphinx search enhancement?
OK, and where would I find this? I just searched the mods and could find nothing using "Search" and/or "Sphinx."
Matt
read through the whole thread, since I think there are updated to the attachments later in the thread...
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=127672.0
That link is not visible to us :P
I'm lost...
hmmm.....
let me see why that is in a restricted area...
Quote from: Kindred on May 19, 2008, 12:57:33 PM
hmmm.....
let me see why that is in a restricted area...
The board is restricted because of the focus. Check the board name. I believe we'll have a public Sphinx plugin for search when 2.0 is released as final.
Note: Sphinx (http://"http://www.sphinxsearch.com/") is a great tool, but requires VPS-level access or better. It will
not work on shared hosting unless the host provides it themselves.
Quote from: Motoko-chan on May 19, 2008, 01:02:27 PM
...I believe we'll have a public Sphinx plugin for search when 2.0 is released as final.
Glad to hear it. This is a much-needed improvement to SMF. I've been playing with 2.0 beta in my test forum, and the search has not been changed. I'm looking forward to seeing the improvement in the real 2.0 release!
Thanks,
Matt
Quote from: Eliana Tamerin on May 15, 2008, 11:09:31 AM
I think what makes SMF attractive is not its default skin.
But the skin is the first thing they see which is why some people may just walk right past it and that's not an opinion
Quote from: Eliana Tamerin on May 17, 2008, 11:55:28 AM
And only if Google has already crawled your pages, unfortunately.
Yes thats the probem but I'm hoping the html templates in beta 4 fix that problem for me
Sounds like the biggest thing SMF can do to be successful is get 2.0 released as soon as possible!
Matt
SMF is ALREADY successful.......
Quote from: Matthew Schenker on May 20, 2008, 06:56:50 AM
Sounds like the biggest thing SMF can do to be successful is get 2.0 released as soon as possible!
Matt
I am very very impatient as well, but remember that this is voluntary work, so..., or we help (if we can) or we wait. Everyone knows that SMF 2.0 is being done, so we only have to wait ;)
And yes, the SMF 2.0 will HELPPP me a lot, most of the MODs that I have in my community will be features in SMF 2.0, so I really want this out..., but is better wait and got something very good than something that can damage one community just because members want this out.
If you're so eager to use 2.0, then use the beta. :P
Quote from: Gazmanafc on May 20, 2008, 07:52:11 AM
If you're so eager to use 2.0, then use the beta. :P
I was going to use it but didn't see the point until Beta 4 comes out because of the template change
Will some please look at the default template using IE6. I've mentioned it before, as have others, and it seems to get worse, not better. The top-right hand corner in board view is totally messed up. It is also messed up (to a lesser degree) on the home page. Of course, when viewing a thread, the quote button is still cropped. It just looks unprofessional, especially after so much time has elapsed.
Thanks.
/me suggests Firefox instead. :P
It's a needed fix, though, I agree.
Quote from: Eliana Tamerin on June 19, 2008, 06:39:07 PM
/me suggests Firefox instead. :P
It's a needed fix, though, I agree.
Indeed, if we could somehow magic everyone to switch away from IE, this would be great. It will come one day, but not for a long time yet, I fear.
/me snaps her fingers.
That work? Please? :P
Well for one, IE is a pain to get things to work right. I rather have our developers focusing on SMF than our site for these issues. They will most likely go away as updates and changes occur to the themes for better semantics :)
They are all logged, but you got to give them time, its hard to accomplish such tasks to make things look right in lots of browsers, without getting ugly with code.
Quote from: Col on June 19, 2008, 07:23:30 PM
Indeed, if we could somehow magic everyone to switch away from IE, this would be great. It will come one day, but not for a long time yet, I fear.
At the very least, if using IE, people should be using IE 7.
Quote from: PanesarV on February 16, 2008, 02:29:41 PM
In my opinion, if SMF wants to be successful and take place of PHPBB then it must have a more elegant and professional looking DEFAULT skin. People turn their face away from SMF by looking at the ugly [no hard feelings] default skin. What do you guys say?
I happen to
like the default skin. I've never liked the default for phpBB or any of the other boards out there... which is why I've been an SMF-er for years.
I've easily customized 3 boards now, and it's super easy once you learn how to incorporate a "header.php" and "footer.php" into the template to blend the board into your site. Unknown (I believe) has a post about it somewhere in the customizing section.) It isn't even all that difficult to change the graphics either.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder prefers SMF.
Quote from: Motoko-chan on June 19, 2008, 07:49:39 PM
Quote from: Col on June 19, 2008, 07:23:30 PM
Indeed, if we could somehow magic everyone to switch away from IE, this would be great. It will come one day, but not for a long time yet, I fear.
At the very least, if using IE, people should be using IE 7.
Erm, since open source is often vaunted as a real alternative to commercial software (not least by SMF itself), do you think this attitude the most appropriate? Surely there is no 'should' about it, it is the 'reality' of the situation that should be addressed. I don't know the figures, but there must be a large percentage of people that still use IE6. Or is SMF now intended purely for hobbyists instead?
Quote from: Col on June 19, 2008, 08:57:43 PM
Surely there is no 'should' about it, it is the 'reality' of the situation that should be addressed. I don't know the figures, but there must be a large percentage of people that still use IE6. Or is SMF now intended purely for hobbyists instead?
That was my personal opinion. I believe that if you must use IE and have the option of IE7, you should use that.
As for a semi-official position, IE6 is still used by a decent percentage, so issues with it will be fixed eventually. Considering we are in the progress of working on new theme code, there will be breakage while it is in development.
I didn't know there were IE issues. Fortunately for me, I've been using Safari or Firefox for several years. IE has always sucked out loud for Mac users, then it was decided not to even bother to make a Mac version of the browser. Pffft. Like Mac folks are crying over that... It took IE to get to 7 before it could handle a .png. Pathetic.
Unfortunately, many of the members of my board still use IE something-or-another, and the only problem some have run into (for those not using 7), is the inability to see the transparent-backed .png graphics on the page (they're white-boxed for them).
For those that never use IE6, here's a screen capture of the top-right hand corner of the board view listing threads. The same problem exists on the home page, but is just 1px wide. It has been like this ever since this theme came into being - that must 18 months ago! This is why I find it frustrating - the sheer amount of time the theme has been so pig ugly in IE6.
(https://www.simplemachines.org/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benzobuddies.org%2Fsmf-images%2Fsmf-theme.jpg&hash=08deffc6293863c86d52fc1c4eb6128602c9179a)
i've reported it in our site stuff board, i'll stick it in the bug tracker if nobody looks at it.
Thanks
what is the width/resolution of your monitor?
1024px
Anyone using IE runs a higher risk of being hacked and especially if its not the latest version.The evidence is on the net it is the most insecure browser ever and never log onto a bank or account using it if possible.If your using an old version then upgrade at least or you are a fool.
Even better dump it and get firefox since this is a lot more secure than bill gates targeted attack browser.It is also a lot more functional than IE and can have lots of nifty addons like SMF can to suit how you want to use it.
Why is it that no one understands the bleedin' obvious? I don't care what's best, what's more secure, why Bill Gates is a **** - it is not the point! The default theme fails in one of the most widely used browsers, and has done for 18 months. The theme should to accommodate this reality - simple.
Quote from: metallica48423 on June 20, 2008, 01:05:47 PM
i've reported it in our site stuff board, i'll stick it in the bug tracker if nobody looks at it.
Thanks
Ignoring the bleedin' obvious yourself? It's being looked at, but in the meantime, some people have offered their own opinions. Please respect them as we've respected yours.
Quote from: Eliana Tamerin on June 21, 2008, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: metallica48423 on June 20, 2008, 01:05:47 PM
i've reported it in our site stuff board, i'll stick it in the bug tracker if nobody looks at it.
Thanks
Ignoring the bleedin' obvious yourself? It's being looked at, but in the meantime, some people have offered their own opinions. Please respect them as we've respected yours.
Hi,
Sorry, but I, and others, have brought up this issue many times over the past 18 months, and it is nearly always met with comments along the lines of 'use a different browser'. Such comments are not solutions. I can change browser (and I do), but I cannot change the browser that everyone else uses visiting the SMF forum.
I appreciate that this being looked at, but 18 months before even looking at it? The three most important questions someone might ask themselves when considering which forum software to go for are: does it work well; how much does it cost; and does it look good? The default template used by the forum software's support forum is bound to influence the answer to two of these fundamental questions.
I appreciate that the problem is long standing, and its regrettable that it took that long to address, however i feel i should mention that this is the first time i've seen this particular problem brought up (even in the bug tracker.) I've seen other issues that have thusfar not been addressed (and put some of them into the bugtracker as well.)
Again, thanks for your concern, bloc is now looking into it.
Hi,
Again, sorry if I came across too strong. I just didn't want to see this slip again for similar reasons to the past.
Most of the team here will be, of course, viewing the forum with FF, Opera, etc., or IE7 at least, so I guess you never see it. The majority of active members will, likewise, use more standards compliant browsers. I view aesthetics as very important too, especially if they imply a coding weakness with the developers. I don't mean to imply that there is such a weakness, just that it might appear this way to the more casual visitor looking for forum software.
Anyway, thanks.
Oh, and you really do need to look at the search results page. If there are posts returned with large code blocks, the right side of the forum is completely broken.
please start a topic in Site Comments (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?board=19.0) for easier tracking on the issue.
In that, please also provide an example search which causes this. I'm assuming the same browser and resolution?
Just use 'code' as your search word, and check the 'show results as messages' box.
In IE6, when the code boxes are wider than the screen, scroll bars are not introduced to the code boxes themselves, necessitating scrolling of the browser window instead. It is a pain, and ugly.
When viewing a thread, the quote buttons, etc., are cropped at the right side. I know this already has been mentioned many times.
Why not split off the posts you think appropriate for a new thread? I misremembered what this thread was about. It is a related issue, I guess, but distinct and separate at the same time. I am largely indefferent to this theme. I would say though, indifference is probably a good thing when designing a theme for this environment. When people love a theme, often just as many hate it. Of course, I am pointing out aspects of the layout that were never intended, not discussing the merits or otherwise of a particular design or layout.
Again, thanks for looking at these problems with IE6.
Quote from: nightbre on June 21, 2008, 11:15:55 AM
Anyone using IE runs a higher risk of being hacked and especially if its not the latest version.The evidence is on the net it is the most insecure browser ever and never log onto a bank or account using it if possible.If your using an old version then upgrade at least or you are a fool.
LMAO, Firefox fans stand out like a house on fire
Nice post,
SMF is already successful, it is very customizable and there are many very nice themes for it. As it current stands the SMF Team consists of only a few members. As a consequence of limited outside assistance the Documentation Team bears the responsibility of documenting the SMF software by themselves. Occasionally the Documentation Team receives help from other Team Members of SMF, however usually they have their own duties that they need to fulfill so they cannot concentrate extensively on working on SMF documentation. To expand your knowledge of SMF, as well as providing a good opportunity to get to meet and become friends with many of the members of the SMF Team.
___________________________
Free Software Directory (http://freesoftwaredirectory.net/softwaredirectory/)
Quote from: Motoko-chan on May 19, 2008, 01:02:27 PM
...I believe we'll have a public Sphinx plugin for search when 2.0 is released as final.
Is this going to happen?
SMF 2.0 isn't released as final yet.
Quote from: Eliana Tamerin on December 18, 2008, 08:39:26 AM
SMF 2.0 isn't released as final yet.
Yup, but feature list is probably done.
QuoteQuote from: nightbre on June 21, 2008, 04:15:55 PM (http://index.php?topic=223129.msg1586591#msg1586591)Anyone using IE runs a higher risk of being hacked and especially if its not the latest version.The evidence is on the net it is the most insecure browser ever and never log onto a bank or account using it if possible.If your using an old version then upgrade at least or you are a fool.
Quote from riker
QuoteLMAO, Firefox fans stand out like a house on fire
LMAO you read the news lately?...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7788687.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7788687.stm)