Simple Machines Community Forum

SMF Development => Feature Requests => Next SMF Discussion => Topic started by: kat on May 30, 2012, 05:59:07 AM

Title: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on May 30, 2012, 05:59:07 AM
When you browse the forum "Hidden", for whatever reason, it's incredibly easy to find-out if you're actually around.

If someone goes to your profile, it tells them when you were last active. If that's showing as "Now", as it were, it kinda proves that you're around.

Maybe it should be that people who are hiding should get that bit blanked-out, or have that show as "Hidden", too?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: emanuele on May 30, 2012, 06:26:32 AM
Even the time reported on your last post proves you are around...

Of course if you set yourself "hidden" and then you don't post at all, then the "last active" could be a "problem", but on the other hand I don't really know how far the "hidden" could be brought.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen on May 30, 2012, 07:33:23 AM
This has been discussed before, and I seem to remember being told it's intended behaviour that it still gets updated even if you are hidden.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on May 30, 2012, 08:24:11 AM
If you're not posting, but lurking, as some do, you could remain hidden, if that didn't update.

I just noticed that I'm hidden, which I hadn't realised.

It doesn't bother me, personally. But, I could imagine that some might be.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Kindred on May 30, 2012, 09:21:24 AM
but the "hidden" just says "hidden from online users list"
not "hidden so that no one else knows your here"


this is completely as intended -- and makes complete sense to me. :P
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on May 30, 2012, 09:29:43 AM
How does it make sense?

Surely, if someone wants to be hidden, for whatever reason, they want to be hidden.

If they're not, really, hidden, why give the option?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: emanuele on May 30, 2012, 09:58:02 AM
Is remove the option a solution?
That would be mine. :P
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Arantor on May 30, 2012, 09:58:26 AM
I've long thought this is slightly bizarre behaviour, but there's no good answer.

If you show the time in the profile, it's obvious. If you don't show the time, however, it's still fairly obvious by the fact that you're posting and not really that hard to get around.

However you won't show up in the list at the foot of the board index (except to admins) so that you won't get pestered as much unless someone wants to talk to you specifically.

I personally would not want to remove the option as a whole.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Kindred on May 30, 2012, 11:29:26 AM
but the "hidden" just says "hidden from online users list"
not "hidden so that no one else knows your here"

that's why it makes sense to me. :P

it just hides you form the online list and the "now online" icon in posts...   so you don't get bugged by users.
As I see it, it's not intended as an "anti-stalking" measure, just as a "I'm incognito" flag.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Arantor on May 30, 2012, 11:45:03 AM
Except that it's not particularly an incognito thing if you're an active poster...
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: emanuele on May 30, 2012, 11:46:57 AM
But you cannot expect to be in incognito if you are posting... :P
Of course unless you post only in boards where "normal" users cannot see your posts.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: ApplianceJunk on May 30, 2012, 11:48:58 AM
I understand what Kindred is saying.

Do some of you really need to use this option so other members don't bug you when you don't want to be bothered or what?

Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Kindred on May 30, 2012, 12:04:26 PM
actually, I do use the option on some of my sites...  but it only matters if I intend to lurk/read not actively post/participate.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Suki on May 30, 2012, 01:23:29 PM
I used the option here for quite a long time.

It really helped to decrease the pms I was receiving back then.  Even if you just posted a few seconds ago, people see you as offline, a lot of people don't bother reading the time hen a post was made and don't bother to go to the profile either, well they do, but they don't check the last active part, dunno why.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on May 30, 2012, 03:26:20 PM
Maybe most people don't think of doing that, then.

'couse, I've just broadcast the fact to everyone, now, like a Muppet... :P
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Abbess on June 19, 2012, 05:17:15 PM
Am I right in thinking that even if you are "hidden" your little speech box on any of your posts will actually show that you are around?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Arantor on June 19, 2012, 05:18:21 PM
That's really all the point of being hidden is - it just means the little green box next to your name says you're offline when you really are.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Chalky on June 19, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
'couse, I've just broadcast the fact to everyone, now, like a Muppet... :P

Don't worry hon, some of us had already figured out that you're always here anyway  ;)
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: live627 on June 19, 2012, 08:07:58 PM
Is remove the option a solution?
That would be mine. :P
No. People would hate you for that and forward their unsolicited support PMs to you. :P I would personally throw a cherry bomb at you >:D

But, seriously, bad idea.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Norv on June 19, 2012, 11:29:58 PM
I've long thought this is slightly bizarre behaviour, but there's no good answer.

If you show the time in the profile, it's obvious. If you don't show the time, however, it's still fairly obvious by the fact that you're posting and not really that hard to get around.

However you won't show up in the list at the foot of the board index (except to admins) so that you won't get pestered as much unless someone wants to talk to you specifically.

I personally would not want to remove the option as a whole.

It is slightly odd behavior.

If you do post or take another action (at least actions interacting with other users or logged), then there's no other solution than to update the time. It has been your choice to post, to take an action which proves your presence online.
However, if you only "lurk", it makes sense to expect that it isn't updated: as displayed for other users. The problem is, this isn't expected behavior for admins. In addition, it is a good question what actions should update it.

If we change the meaning of the option, to "private mode", we have to figure out the specification of the behavior so that - hopefully - it doesn't get confusing. Not more than it already is, that is. :)
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Elmacik on June 20, 2012, 03:43:22 AM
Not only this forum should be thought while thinking about this issue. Because in many forums, users behave very differently. For example while I was working as an SMF tech at the top 1 tech site in Turkey, I was bombed by barrage of PMs and used this hide feature and it really helped.

But guess what; I started to receive PMs in time saying "hey! I know you are around, you can't hide just answer me!" :)

Things that should be considered:

1- You might be lurking around without posting. So it should not reveal the time you were last active, when you choose not to.
2- Even if you decide to post, you can give the imagination that you posted and logged out at the time.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: IchBin™ on June 20, 2012, 11:39:45 AM
Sounds like you need a "Do not disturb" option that turns off PM's while you are in hidden mode. :D
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Elmacik on June 20, 2012, 12:23:12 PM
Actually it's not only the PMs, because people try every single way to reach you. :D Like if you are hanging around the forum, you must also be online in every other way of communication like MSN, Facebook etc..

Receiving PMs is OK, not letting people know you are around is the main stuff.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Norv on June 24, 2012, 04:14:51 PM
1- You might be lurking around without posting. So it should not reveal the time you were last active, when you choose not to.
2- Even if you decide to post, you can give the imagination that you posted and logged out at the time.

Both come to saying that the time should be updated when you post.
How about an action like sending a PM? The user(s) receiving it will see the date and time you sent it.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Elmacik on June 25, 2012, 07:28:18 AM
Both come to saying that the time should be updated when you post.
How about an action like sending a PM? The user(s) receiving it will see the date and time you sent it.

If you are sending a PM, you already accept that you will be revealed to that user; so nothing wrong with it. For example MSN warns you when you are offline and sending a message to someone, it says "this person will know you are here when you send the message". I don't think a warning like this is necessary but when you need to send a PM, you are already accepting to have a contact/communication with that member.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on June 25, 2012, 08:30:23 AM
How would it be, if people who hide, for whatever reason, have certain fields in the profile just not show?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Akyhne on August 23, 2012, 06:23:43 AM
that's why it makes sense to me. :P
It doesn't make sense to me, cause I never can figure out wether I'm oline or not. Very annoying if i want to get in contact with me!!
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Chalky on September 06, 2012, 05:19:40 PM
Another issue with this - I've just gone hidden, yet on my front page in the Info Center, the Who's Online bit shows "1 Guest, 7 Users (1 Hidden)" to normal members.

On a small forum like mine where only Admins have the ability to hide, the (1 Hidden) makes it more obvious that I'm there and trying to hide than if I weren't hiding!!!

Is there a way to remove this?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: IchBin™ on September 06, 2012, 05:42:09 PM
Remove from your Boardindex.template.php:

Code: [Select]
if (!empty($context['num_users_hidden']))
$bracketList[] = comma_format($context['num_users_hidden']) . ' ' . $txt['hidden'];
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Chalky on September 06, 2012, 06:00:56 PM
Thanks IchBin, I know that should work,  but I've just removed that bit of code and Hidden is still there!  I have cleared forum cache and browser cache but it's still showing (1 Hidden)!  Any ideas?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Bigguy on September 06, 2012, 06:06:08 PM
Honestly, in my opinion. (On this site) none of the team should be hidden. It's like walking into a store to get your favorite beer and you can't find the store clerk to check you out....pretty annoying in my opinion. I understand what a lot of you are saying. All the PM's get annoying and it's hard to deal with sometimes. People bugging you all the time.... is that not why we are here though, lol. I mean I go onto any other site and it's the same way, all the team on those sites are hiding to. If ya really want to hide then just don't be here at that particular time. The whole reason a team is here is to be here for the people.....anyway, if ya really wanna change it then make so if your hidden then your hidden everywhere. You get no PM's while hidden, no nothing...your basically offline, but your here. That's the end of my small little rant I guess. :)

(said with a smile :) )
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on September 07, 2012, 06:34:51 AM
I hide, because certain members have been known to consider me to be their own, personal, support team.

If they don't know I'm here, they don't send me messages. ;)

It's not infallible, obviously. But, it's cut the number down considerably.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: emanuele on September 07, 2012, 07:44:36 AM
/me points to buddy/ignore lists and PM rules. :P
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on September 07, 2012, 09:20:49 AM
Rules which get ignored. :P
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Chalky on September 07, 2012, 01:58:52 PM
I hid just to try it out (and because I was in a bit of a sulk) but immediately realised it made me more obvious than ever....
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: emanuele on September 07, 2012, 02:23:53 PM
Rules which get ignored. :P
Rules are ignored by people, not by computers. :P
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on September 07, 2012, 04:32:12 PM
Prezactly. :)
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: emanuele on September 07, 2012, 05:42:40 PM
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?action=pm;sa=manrules
That's why this exists in the first place. ;)

sender name => then name of the people you don't want PM from
action => delete message

Or:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore
"add to ignore list" => add the name of the member
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?action=profile;area=pmprefs
Receive personal messages from: => All members except those in my ignore list.
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on September 08, 2012, 12:53:11 PM
Maybe an auto-responder saying "Fook off!"?
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Shambles on September 08, 2012, 01:01:26 PM
Maybe an auto-responder saying "Fook off!"?

Buhahaha. You've been on my forum haven't you  ;D
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: kat on September 08, 2012, 01:03:14 PM
(https://www.simplemachines.org/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katzy.dsl.pipex.com%2FSmileys%2Finnoc.gif&hash=e8e6b393012ba4b2c95126f8fee55dca)(https://www.simplemachines.org/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katzy.dsl.pipex.com%2FSmileys%2Fgiggle.gif&hash=9dadde25699bfd62d0a51a1a9037304f)
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Mstcool on December 09, 2012, 07:11:14 PM
I agree with all of you. Like someone said not everyone checks the last active thing. I personally don't even check the time people posted a post. If i see it i think its new unless i see a post and it says is this still active or something like that. Like that happened to me today...Lol. And if you dont want people to pm you, you can turn it off...Right? ;)
Title: Re: "Hidden" isn't hidden, at all...
Post by: Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen on December 10, 2012, 12:34:58 AM
From an admin/ team perspective, I'd prefer staffers hiding, over staffers ignoring PMs anyday.