Simple Machines Community Forum

SMF Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: kat on June 03, 2013, 03:29:44 PM

Title: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 03, 2013, 03:29:44 PM
Deleting a theme leaves all files onsite. Shouldn't deleting a theme delete it, properly?

(Apologies if this has already been discussed)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Burke ♞ Knight on June 03, 2013, 03:46:32 PM
I had been wondering the same thing. I've deleted themes to help on disk space and transfers, yet was shocked to see they were still there. That kind of makes deleting pointless. I agree that it should delete all files and the directory, too.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: live627 on June 04, 2013, 12:53:24 AM
Files stay there??

(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3127767808/h58C9F96E/)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: shadow82x on June 04, 2013, 01:40:20 AM
I agree. It's illogical too.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 04, 2013, 04:30:39 AM
Come to think of it, I'd actually like to see a patch for v2.0.4 that does this, not just in any new versions.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Burke ♞ Knight on June 04, 2013, 04:37:45 AM
I'm actually surprised that no one has brought up this issue before.
Also, that no one has made a mod to do so.
But, the main question is, why is this an issue in the first place?
Unless the team decided to have the delete function delete only from the theme list, and not the files in case people decided they wanted the theme back again.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Shambles on June 04, 2013, 04:41:53 AM
I guess in a way it's similar to modifications. When you uninstall a mod it also leaves the package hanging around until you delete it (via pacman or ftp).

I don't install so many themes to be a problem for me ;)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 04, 2013, 04:46:48 AM
It does seem kinda odd, don't you think?

Maybe an option to either delete the files, or not, would be best?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Shambles on June 04, 2013, 05:19:11 AM
Yes, that is an oversight I guess.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Burke ♞ Knight on June 04, 2013, 05:21:59 AM
Quote from: [email protected] on June 04, 2013, 04:46:48 AM
It does seem kinda odd, don't you think?

Maybe an option to either delete the files, or not, would be best?

That's what I think. However, I think it would be wise to set it to not allowing the deletion of the default theme.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Shambles on June 04, 2013, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: BurkeKnight
...I think it would be wise to set it to not allowing the deletion of the default theme.
Why not? It's just taking up valuable filestore.


Oh, wait...
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Burke ♞ Knight on June 04, 2013, 05:30:23 AM
Quote from: Shambles on June 04, 2013, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: BurkeKnight
...I think it would be wise to set it to not allowing the deletion of the default theme.
Why not? It's just taking up valuable filestore.


Oh, wait...

Thanks...



Poor cat....





Poor cup of ice coffee....
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: live627 on June 04, 2013, 06:55:08 AM
i needz img kthx
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Kindred on June 04, 2013, 10:30:08 AM
actually, I can see the point of doing it the way we do (and I don't think it was an oversight. I believe that it is intentional)


you may be removing a theme but want it back later
you may have made custom edits or included custom images that you didn't mean to delete.
etc etc

requiring the user to manually remove the theme directory seems like a valid "protection against stupidity" to me...
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Irisado on June 04, 2013, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: Kindred on June 04, 2013, 10:30:08 AM
requiring the user to manually remove the theme directory seems like a valid "protection against stupidity" to me...

I was actually trying to come up with a counter to that, but I can't  :D.

While deleting the theme in the way [email protected] suggests would be my personal preference, what Kindred's saying also seems very logical to me, so I guess that it's best just to leave things as they are.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 04, 2013, 02:04:10 PM
So, why not have a "Do you want to delete the actual files from the server" option?

Or, at least, a message saying that the files won't be deleted and will have to be deleted manually?

It seems extremely silly just to leave them there and, possibly, leave the admin with no idea that the files are there, taking-up valuable space.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Burke ♞ Knight on June 04, 2013, 02:36:00 PM
Quote from: [email protected] on June 04, 2013, 02:04:10 PM
It seems extremely silly just to leave them there and, possibly, leave the admin with no idea that the files are there, taking-up valuable space.

How about at least telling the people that the dir/files are not actually being deleted?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 04, 2013, 02:42:23 PM
My point, exactly. :)

Quote from: [email protected] on June 04, 2013, 02:04:10 PMOr, at least, a message saying that the files won't be deleted and will have to be deleted manually?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Antechinus on June 05, 2013, 01:08:59 AM
Yeah, because any competent admin will never check the contents of their directories.

Oh, wait.......... :D

IMO it would make sense to change the wording in admin, so that it does not say the theme is going to be deleted, but instead says the theme wll be uninstalled (which is what actually happens).

It's consistent with the behaviour of the package manager when uninstalling mods. The files stay put in case you want to reinstall later.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: NanoSector on June 05, 2013, 01:37:47 AM
What about doing the same thing as the PM, separate uninstall and delete?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Antechinus on June 05, 2013, 01:38:54 AM
That would work too. :)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 05, 2013, 05:06:43 AM
Ant... some of them don't even know what FTP is... :P

Quote from: Antechinus on June 05, 2013, 01:08:59 AMIt's consistent with the behaviour of the package manager when uninstalling mods. The files stay put in case you want to reinstall later.

Not entirely. In Packages, you get both the option to uninstall and to delete. In themes, you don't.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: emanuele on June 05, 2013, 08:18:36 AM
And then you have people complaining because they deleted the packages *before* uninstall the mod and then they cannot uninstall it again and have uploaded an updated version and cannot install the updated version, etc.

Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Kindred on June 05, 2013, 09:56:44 AM
nope... you are not wrong. :)


the problem with making something idiot proof is that people keep coming up with new ways to be idiots.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 05, 2013, 03:14:23 PM
Easy enough to get around, though. :)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Herman's Mixen on June 05, 2013, 03:36:29 PM
The original design is/was if a user did delete the theme in question the files stayed at the server in case they removed it and wasn't supposed to...

as i believe "Unknown W." had this in mind while he did designed the system :P

Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 05, 2013, 04:06:37 PM
OK. If it doesn't delete the files, how about a message, telling us that, as previously described?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Herman's Mixen on June 05, 2013, 05:41:30 PM
That could be a good optional feature

or you could easily open the file /Themes/default/languages/Themes.{language}.php
and change the line of text


$txt['theme_remove_confirm'] = 'Are you sure you want to permanently remove this theme?';


and add some text to inform that the deletion does not removes the files on the server
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: emanuele on June 05, 2013, 06:41:27 PM
The problem with a warning is that there is no way (at the moment) to distinguish between "new" themes (i.e. never installed yet) and "deleted" themes (i.e. themes installed and removed), they both are the same to SMF.

So you would need a generic warning: "hey you have some themes around, are you sure they should be there?"
I'm not sure that would work perfectly.

Also, SMF is quite flexible when it comes to theme directory (i.e. the directory can be almost anywhere), so to be "sure" a theme is around, we'd need to limit the places SMF can look for themes.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Antechinus on June 05, 2013, 06:44:09 PM
If an admin can't recall which themes they uninstalled and which themes they haven't installed yet, they have problems other than themes. :D
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Burke ♞ Knight on June 05, 2013, 08:22:18 PM
There is also the issue of directory names. :P
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 06, 2013, 06:01:37 AM
So, as I mentioned, a warning wotsit, saying ...

Quote from: [email protected] on June 04, 2013, 02:04:10 PMthat the files won't be deleted and will have to be deleted manually?

Surely, that's easy enough to instigate, innit?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 06, 2013, 06:22:39 AM
how about something like this? although most may never see it

(http://imageshack.us/a/img5/1613/image002su.png)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 06, 2013, 07:22:25 AM
Apart from a full-stop/period between "server" and "that", that would be pretty damned perfect. :)

Although, a warning, when you click to delete a theme, would be even more bettererer, I reckon.

I actually know that a number of members don't, actually, know that you need to hit the (http://playing.twaddlehosting.co.uk/Themes/Fresh_v2_RC5/images/icons/delete.gif) to delete a theme, you know...
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 06, 2013, 07:28:38 AM
then the docs need to be updated to include information about that.

other then a language string update, the rest would need a dev to look into.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 06, 2013, 07:56:08 AM
Will you do that? Or, shall I?

Yeah, I know the devs would need to look at this. Although I only intended it for the next version, an update for the current version would be good.

Unlikely to happen, though, I'd guess...
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 06, 2013, 07:58:03 AM
you can check the docs and start a thread in the proper board if you see it necessary.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 06, 2013, 08:03:32 AM
The docs are there, already, which is groovy.

http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Themes_and_Layout

QuoteThe Themes Settings section of the Administration Center shows a list of all Themes currently installed on the forum. Clicking on any Theme's name will take you to that Theme Settings, exactly like Current Theme settings. If you want to remove a Theme from your forum, then click on the red X. Doing so will only delete that Theme reference from your Forum settings. The actual Theme contents will be left in your Themes directory. To physically remove the theme from there, you need to do so using FTP or your CPanel's File Manager.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 06, 2013, 08:05:38 AM
looks good, as long as the x stays red and the user is not color blind.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 06, 2013, 08:15:43 AM
Maybe we could change that, to point to the image?

So that it says:

QuoteThe Themes Settings section of the Administration Center shows a list of all Themes currently installed on the forum. Clicking on any Theme's name will take you to that Theme Settings, exactly like Current Theme settings. If you want to remove a Theme from your forum, then click on the (http://playing.twaddlehosting.co.uk/Themes/Fresh_v2_RC5/images/icons/delete.gif) icon to the right of the theme's name. Doing so will only delete that Theme reference from your Forum settings. The actual Theme contents will be left in your Themes directory. To physically remove the theme from there, you need to do so using FTP or your CPanel's File Manager.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 06, 2013, 08:17:47 AM
i believe in 2.1 the image has changed so that could complicate things.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 06, 2013, 08:22:38 AM
Tsk. Far better for it to just say "Delete", rather than have a bloody icon, really. Let's hope the icon they use has a red "X" on it, then.

Still, far be it for me to try to make life easy for people, ay? ;)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Irisado on June 09, 2013, 07:07:37 PM
I thought that the red x was clear myself :D.  Apparently, not everyone knows what it means though.

If some kind of warning could be put together, then I think that it's sound idea.  The information is all there in the manual, but getting people to read that first before playing with buttons seems to be something of a problem.....
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 09, 2013, 07:43:07 PM
do you any ideas to get people to read the wiki more? put in effort to learn more before acting?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Antechinus on June 09, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
Short of threats of iminent death, nothing will persuade people to trawl the wiki before playing with the buttons. :)

They will always play with the buttons first, then go looking for an explanation once things go wrong. It's just human nature to want to save time by not reading lotsa stuff.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 09, 2013, 07:46:53 PM
oh i know, but i got to try to get people to read the wiki or why have it at all?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Antechinus on June 09, 2013, 07:50:58 PM
Yeah fair enough. Ok, one possibility is to have the help links within admin actually include a link to the relevant part of the wiki. Bit of a bugger to iimplement in 2.0.x at this stage, but arguably not that difficult for 2.1.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 09, 2013, 07:53:23 PM
that is a good idea, but not enough pages are translated to other languages so we have a point of failure there. i would have to check but some languages dont even have all the normal help pages translated after all this time.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Antechinus on June 09, 2013, 08:00:58 PM
Well if it can even be done for English that might be worthwhile. A suprising number of people with another first language are still fluent in English, or at least capable of reading it. Often they're more fluent than people whose first language is English. :D
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 09, 2013, 08:02:58 PM
i will think about it, would need to bring it up with the translators as well and see how they feel.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 05:51:51 AM
Real men don't read instruction manuals. ;)

(http://info.abcsignup.com/Portals/139345/images/dummies.png)

The reason that I brought it up, is that I've encountered a number of members, recently, who simply didn't know how to delete a theme and didn't know that deleting it didn't, actually, delete it from the server.

So, it wasn't a case of me thinking that this would be a good idea, for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 05:55:22 AM
oh i know, so if they will not read the manual [any manual] you still expect they would read the page to see if there is a message that says the theme files will not be deleted?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 05:59:18 AM
What men do, usually, is try to figure things out, for themselves (We learn things better, that way).

If we can't figure something out, we might, then, resort to the manual.

Possibly. ;)

I'm sure it's a genetic thing.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 06:01:31 AM
you know some women would try it the same way... even if there was a popup that yelled at the admin and said that the files would still be on the server they would ignore it and just click ok/yes and go on with life until they find out they need more space on their server and try to find out what can be deleted.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 06:15:43 AM
Ha! There REALLY ought to be a warning when you backup the database from within SMF, too, as I've bleated about many times. (I still think that the facility should be removed, entirely, to be honest)

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=505538.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 06:17:52 AM
the backup seems to still exist in 2.1... although anyone could figure out how to remove it and submit a pull request on github and it would be gone.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 06:26:36 AM
Pity I'm not just **anyone**, innit? ;)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: emanuele on June 10, 2013, 07:23:47 AM
And nobody apparently has followed the changes I did to the database backup code and that now it works irrespective of the size of the database and even provide warnings on what is the best option for debugging, even including forcing put the system in maintenance mode for "large" databases, etc....

It's nice to know I worked for nothing. :P
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 07:26:18 AM
you really expect us to remember each change in 2.1? :P a list of major changes would help to remind us of what has been changed/improved with 2.1
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: emanuele on June 10, 2013, 07:39:38 AM
/me wrote that list a long time ago... :P
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 07:41:47 AM
and which one thread has all the changes listed?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 07:47:46 AM
I don't look at 2.1 stuff, Manny. I don't even know how github and that stuff works.

But, if you say you've done that, YAY! Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: emanuele on June 10, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
Not all, but some:
http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Differences_between_SMF_2.1_and_SMF_2.0
I should have said "started writing". :P
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 08:55:48 AM
U iz de man, man! :)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
Quote from: emanuele on June 10, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
Not all, but some:
http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Differences_between_SMF_2.1_and_SMF_2.0
I should have said "started writing". :P

thanks... a lot to add to that list i think but plenty of time to figure out what has been added and work on the docs before 2.1 goes gold.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: MrPhil on June 10, 2013, 11:24:18 AM
Quote from: [email protected] on June 10, 2013, 05:59:18 AM
What men do, usually, is try to figure things out, for themselves (We learn things better, that way).

If we can't figure something out, we might, then, resort to the manual.
I saw a funny Fathers Day card in the store: a picture of Darth Vader and the Death Star, with the quote "The Death Star will be completed On Time. AND I DON'T NEED INSTRUCTIONS!".

Quote
I'm sure it's a genetic thing.
I wonder if it's the same genetic thing that makes men avoid maps and asking for directions? It's true that men and women have different styles of navigating and different resistances to asking for help; is avoiding reading the instructions all part of this? I know that I tend to try things without more than a cursory look at the instructions. If it's difficult to figure out without an instruction manual, it's not properly designed. And instruction manuals tend to be written by people who don't know what they're doing (i.e., lack of proper training in technical writing).
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Kindred on June 10, 2013, 11:38:30 AM
Actually, Mythbusters disproved that assumption (about asking for directions)

although they did prove that women tend to be better at multi-tasking.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 11:38:47 AM
Funny thing, navigation. How can women navigate, at all, when a lot of them don't know their left from their right (By their own admission)?
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Irisado on June 10, 2013, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: Illori on June 09, 2013, 07:43:07 PM
do you any ideas to get people to read the wiki more? put in effort to learn more before acting?

Not really.  It's like trying to get people to read forum stickies.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink  ;).

Perhaps some people might be worried that it's written in IT language so to speak, and not look for that reason.  Being lousy with IT myself, I find that it's generally well written from a layman's point of view, so this shouldn't be the case, but may be people have that perception, and that's one reason why they don't check?

Quote from: Antechinus on June 09, 2013, 08:00:58 PM
Well if it can even be done for English that might be worthwhile. A suprising number of people with another first language are still fluent in English, or at least capable of reading it. Often they're more fluent than people whose first language is English. :D

Ironically, I think that my Spanish (my second language) is now grammatically better than my English grammar :D!
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 03:55:14 PM
you could always volunteer to work on translating the wiki into Spanish if you want.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Irisado on June 10, 2013, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Illori on June 10, 2013, 03:55:14 PM
you could always volunteer to work on translating the wiki into Spanish if you want.

I have been thinking about it, I just don't know if non-native speakers of the target language are suited to that role (I haven't seen any guidelines on this issue, and all the translators I've seen have the target language as their native language).
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 04:03:27 PM
usually they do, but i dont see any issue with having people with the target language as a secondary to translate the wiki. i would need to check with the localization team to verify they dont have any issue as well.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Irisado on June 10, 2013, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: Illori on June 10, 2013, 04:03:27 PM
usually they do, but i dont see any issue with having people with the target language as a secondary to translate the wiki. i would need to check with the localization team to verify they dont have any issue as well.

I'm happy to help out if there's work to be done, and it's not a problem that I just have a degree in Spanish language, rather than being a native speaker.  If I need to submit anything via the e-mail in the translation thread I can do that too.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 04:41:24 PM
looks like all the pages using the translation extension are almost fully translated for spanish. so the next step would be if you want to work on manually translating other pages into spanish. this does not require the use of the translation extension.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 04:49:42 PM
Did someone say "Thread drift"? ;)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 04:50:54 PM
hey it works for me :P but if you want to split it off go ahead.
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
Nah, I'm not bothered, at all!

Just pissing around, really. (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c045.gif)

Just remember this, when I hijack one of yours. ;)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 04:56:48 PM
haha, you have already :P
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: kat on June 10, 2013, 05:06:48 PM
As if I would...

(http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/cangel.gif)
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Irisado on June 10, 2013, 05:23:35 PM
Quote from: Illori on June 10, 2013, 04:41:24 PM
looks like all the pages using the translation extension are almost fully translated for spanish. so the next step would be if you want to work on manually translating other pages into spanish. this does not require the use of the translation extension.

I'm probably better off using a dictionary off my shelf, where necessary, and doing it manually, so that would suit me :).

Yes, and this is horribly off topic, so if it needs to go somewhere else, thread split would be handy ;).
Title: Re: Deleting a theme actually deletes the theme.
Post by: Illori on June 10, 2013, 05:26:33 PM
there was some discussion recently about translating pages outside the translation extension that started out here http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=444495.msg3557066#msg3557066