How idiot-proof can SMF be made?

Started by MrPhil, April 29, 2010, 10:54:06 AM

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shentino

Simple.  Tie it into membership on the forums, and simply let the mods be admins there, admins here bureaucrats/stewards there, and let anyone edit if they register here and make it to rank 2.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

The topic is too long to read at the moment, but to comment on the OP, I really don't think we should even think about making stuff idiot-proof,
what probably should be worked on though, is to make things more idiot-friendly - that is stuff like a wysiwyg editor for themeing sound good,
but wasting time on actually preventing inexperienced users from making mistakes is actually a bad idea IMO.
That is how we create more mindless idiots.
Slava
Ukraini!


"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

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shentino

Quote from: nend on July 20, 2010, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: shentino on July 19, 2010, 05:44:49 PM
Incidentally, I do consider MS-DOS batch files to be programming.  Just with a feature sparse language ;)


It matters what you consider programming. Yes it is a simple programming language, but to consider yourself a programmer by knowing how to code a couple simple lines in a bat file IMHO does not make you a programmer.


I don't know, I've seen some pretty sophisticated batch files...

Though you do have a point that DOS's limited batch file language does preclude a lot of more "mature" programming that you can only get with a fully featured language such as C or Perl.

However, to be quite frank DOS batch files are what I started programming in when I was a lad of 10 or so.  They were my bread and butter, until I moved up to GW-BASIC.

A baby penguin's gotta cut his beak on something. 

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Quote from: shentino on July 20, 2010, 03:06:16 AM
However, to be quite frank DOS batch files are what I started programming in when I was a lad of 10 or so. 
Batch files and basic ;D Yeah - familiar story...
Slava
Ukraini!


"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

Joshua Dickerson

Quote from: nend on July 20, 2010, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: shentino on July 19, 2010, 05:44:49 PM
Incidentally, I do consider MS-DOS batch files to be programming.  Just with a feature sparse language ;)


It matters what you consider programming. Yes it is a simple programming language, but to consider yourself a programmer by knowing how to code a couple simple lines in a bat file IMHO does not make you a programmer.

Quote from: Norv on July 19, 2010, 03:28:39 AM
I agree with that as well, shentino. :)
Having good documentation, and perhaps good tools to help a broken case, is the next best thing.

The documentation is there but not enough. More advance stuff would be nice, maybe some simple code snippets. Maybe a full function database, I would like that allot :D.

Most of all the one thing I dislike about the online manual is the layout. I think the manual would benefit more if it was more of a wiki style manual allowing contributions from the whole SMF community. The doc writers should have a final say though and should be the moderation/proofing team, still able to make contributions but able to control the whole documentation project. I think it would be good idea to pilot this and see how it goes, there is mediawiki which will be a quick setup.  ;)
Have you been talking to people? ;)
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NanoSector

Quote from: Kindred on July 18, 2010, 05:22:53 PM
the problem with making things "idiot-proof" is that the idiots keep coming up with new ways to break things.
I'm sorry but I was lolling at this

QuoteIt matters what you consider programming. Yes it is a simple programming language, but to consider yourself a programmer by knowing how to code a couple simple lines in a bat file IMHO does not make you a programmer.
I just call it programming...what word do I use else :P
My Mods / Mod Builder - A tool to easily create mods / Blog
"I've heard from a reliable source that the Answer is 42. But, still no word on what the question is."

DoctorMalboro

Quote from: Yoshi2889 on July 22, 2010, 11:38:09 AM
QuoteIt matters what you consider programming. Yes it is a simple programming language, but to consider yourself a programmer by knowing how to code a couple simple lines in a bat file IMHO does not make you a programmer.
I just call it programming...what word do I use else :P
MS-DOS coder?

MrPhil

PLEASE folks, can we get back on topic? Yes, DOS batch is programming, albeit at a very simple low level. You're telling a computer how to do some task, which is by definition programming. Now, can we talk about how to make SMF less vulnerable to, uh, "idiots"? And how to make it simpler and more straight-forward for unsophisticated non-programmers to use, while not crippling its power?

I don't want to have to ask the moderators to start removing off-topic postings. If it's really important to you to discuss whether MS-DOS batch files are programs, can you move that to a "Chit Chat" topic? Thank you.

NanoSector

* Yoshi2889 agrees with above post

Well, uhm, with quick thinking:
1. Add shortcuts for admins in topics/other places
2. Make the Error Log more simple (like it just says "Needed file "/folder/file.php" not found. Please reinstall the accosiated package.")
3. Add integration options (like if it found WordPress a button with "Integrate WordPress" will show)

This is just quick thinking...
My Mods / Mod Builder - A tool to easily create mods / Blog
"I've heard from a reliable source that the Answer is 42. But, still no word on what the question is."

shentino

Make it so that the install.php script can unjam the board by removing bans or creating admin accounts.

Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen

Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
Make it so that the install.php script can unjam the board by removing bans or creating admin accounts.
Actually.... To allow any tool to easily create admin accounts isn't too wise IMO, but that's not a completely crazy idea, for example clearing bans and reactivating existing user accounts could
be made insto a stand alone tool - or what do people think about this? :P
Slava
Ukraini!


"Before you allow people access to your forum, especially in an administrative position, you must be aware that that person can seriously damage your forum. Therefore, you should only allow people that you trust, implicitly, to have such access." -Douglas

How you can help SMF

NanoSector

Quote from: LexArma on July 23, 2010, 07:14:03 AM
Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
Make it so that the install.php script can unjam the board by removing bans or creating admin accounts.
Actually.... To allow any tool to easily create admin accounts isn't too wise IMO, but that's not a completely crazy idea, for example clearing bans and reactivating existing user accounts could
be made insto a stand alone tool - or what do people think about this? :P
You could make the tool so that it digs into the database and clears the table that holds the bans...

Maybe add a note to each page in the Sources directory like
// The code of this page should not be modified unless installing a package or if you need to do some serious maintenance.
My Mods / Mod Builder - A tool to easily create mods / Blog
"I've heard from a reliable source that the Answer is 42. But, still no word on what the question is."

shentino

Quote from: LexArma on July 23, 2010, 07:14:03 AM
Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
Make it so that the install.php script can unjam the board by removing bans or creating admin accounts.
Actually.... To allow any tool to easily create admin accounts isn't too wise IMO, but that's not a completely crazy idea, for example clearing bans and reactivating existing user accounts could
be made insto a stand alone tool - or what do people think about this? :P

This is the same idea that got booed to China, somewhat.  In that case though my suggestion was misinterpreted as creating admin accounts, whereas I meant removing obstructive bans.

A tool, perhaps disabled by default and requiring shell access to the install files to enable, to remove bad bans would probably be helpful.

I recently had the embarrassing experience of pushing the wrong buttons and permabanning 127.0.0.1, making it impossible for me to even log in as admin.

青山 素子

Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 01:28:39 PM
I recently had the embarrassing experience of pushing the wrong buttons and permabanning 127.0.0.1, making it impossible for me to even log in as admin.

You shouldn't be using a server as a desktop. It's a very bad idea.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


shentino


青山 素子

Because if a flaw is found in your server security settings or the web apps you are serving, an attacker can get access to your personal information. If you have personal accounts you log into (online banking, other financial sites, PayPal, e-mail), and save any kind of credentials, an attacker could gain access to those sites. Partitioning is a core part of proper computing security.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


shentino

That's easy, run the server inside a VM.

NanoSector

Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
That's easy, run the server inside a VM.
Not every computer can handle that.

For example my desktop runs Ubuntu at average speed, now lets try Windows Server 2008...

COMPLETE FAIL CRASH
My Mods / Mod Builder - A tool to easily create mods / Blog
"I've heard from a reliable source that the Answer is 42. But, still no word on what the question is."

青山 素子

Quote from: Yoshi2889 on July 24, 2010, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
That's easy, run the server inside a VM.
Not every computer can handle that.

For example my desktop runs Ubuntu at average speed, now lets try Windows Server 2008...

COMPLETE FAIL CRASH

Why would you want to run Windows Server? It's an expensive license anyway.

Also, yes, a VM is an option if you don't have separate physical machines.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


NanoSector

Quote from: 青山 素子 on July 24, 2010, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: Yoshi2889 on July 24, 2010, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: shentino on July 23, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
That's easy, run the server inside a VM.
Not every computer can handle that.

For example my desktop runs Ubuntu at average speed, now lets try Windows Server 2008...

COMPLETE FAIL CRASH

Why would you want to run Windows Server? It's an expensive license anyway.

Also, yes, a VM is an option if you don't have separate physical machines.
Didn't I say "example"?
My Mods / Mod Builder - A tool to easily create mods / Blog
"I've heard from a reliable source that the Answer is 42. But, still no word on what the question is."

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