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Started by Rudolf, January 31, 2007, 10:45:10 AM

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FragaCampos

First, you need to say what problem that is...

OCJ

I was hoping to use this and ditch my old mod (look but no read+ lots of loop hole edits) but ...

When just view only checkbox is selected the guest does not see the mouse over and link to open the board. It is gray/black and appears to have no link but opens when clicked.
This gives totally the opposite impression I want to give guests - I want them to see the board (link text) just as others, 'view' the topics only. This is the incentive to register for the club. The way the mod works now makes it appear the board is off limits and no way to see inside (the text has no hyperlink).


Another point - takes 2 pages of  replies work out where the settings are. Would be a good idea to give more information on the board settings -  2 columns of checkboxes with no titles. After reading the fine print on the left and trial n error you finally get to work out how to use it.

With no view only board hyperlink, sadly I will have to go back to using the outdated mod instead.

OCJ

It also appears that the mod removes any board topics from the calendar that set to view only (and view message index).

That basically  finishes for me... event calendar is blank.

FragaCampos

igirisjin, I solved the first problem you mentioned editing the css to my needs. Its relatively easy.

OCJ

Thanks for replying so quickly. I guess the lack of titles on the calendar (no access but view board) is not so easy to solve if it follows general permissions.

Its an area SMF doesnt have mods for - log in to read or a read more teaser and login. Some details in our posts are for members only.

FragaCampos

I really can't help you there, since I don't use the calendar in my forum.

Let's hope someone with more knowledge then me can help you.

OCJ

Thanks, I dont mean to be negative - I'm sure it helps a lot of people. The calendar linking has some odd behavior with many posting mods.

Arantor

That's because the authors don't test it with the calendar - because they don't use it either...
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

OCJ

QuoteThat's because the authors don't test it with the calendar - because they don't use it either...

Posting topics impacts on the calendar - at the moment an integral part of SMF. Sadly the effect of posting through the board and through the calendar produce different results as permissions work differently. I know some may not like the calendar but honestly, its a major growth area for groups of people - event management. Unwittingly or not, SMF has everything many other group software perhaps envy - a reliable event management system (not a birthday calendar!).

I chose SMF because no other open source portal or message board comes close to it - posting of topics/events, reply/discussion/sign up, automatic linking to a calendar, reliable topic/event announcement, 'out of the box' user profiles, messaging, subscription. Yet many long time members here talk about it as a nuisance.

Arantor

QuoteYet many long time members here talk about it as a nuisance.

That's because it's a major performance hog, and most sites have no need or use of such.
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

OCJ

#610
 Well, if its disentangled but kept as an official mod  - 'we' clubs might prove you wrong one day  :P

A lot of people here say that - 'performance'... but as our computers still obey Moore's law and bandwidth keeps growing it s hard to believe it is such a big issue as time passes. I can understand if its cutting edge intensive cpu software like graphics (software code grows exponentially also), but not SMF.



Arantor

And that's what I'm doing in That Which Shall Not Be Named. I already removed it from the core, but I haven't decided how I want to handle the whole posting thing yet.

I'm seriously tempted to handle it the way IPB does, where you don't tie it to an actual topic, but simply have the event have posting text and allow comments to it - but it's not actually a 'topic'. Being done this way, you get to avoid all entanglements with board permissions and you save the query being made every topic page view.
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

OCJ

I updated my previous post...

BTW
The  IPB way is a pain in the butt - I tested their system. Plugins full of bugs and when I used it 2 years ago the events didn't have comments - whats the point!
That's the great thing about SMF having it as a topic linked, you can reply as sign up and discuss an event as a thread. Good idea.

I would stick with 1 system - post a topic and have a link button. Now it doesnt work uniformly by having post from calendar.

Arantor

QuoteA lot of people here say that - 'performance'... but  but as our computers still obey Morse law and bandwidth keeps growing it s hard to believe it is such a big issue as time passes.

Morse Law? Think you mean Moore's Law. And while that's largely true, it's no excuse for not trying to be mindful of it. This is why vBulletin's developers think 60 queries or more per page is acceptable.

QuoteThe  IPB way is a pain in the butt - I tested their system. Plugins full of bugs and when I used it 2 years ago the events didn't have comments - whats the point!
That's the great thing about SMF having it as a topic linked, you can reply as sign up and discuss an event as a thread. Good idea.

Well, events do have comments now, at least in 3.4.

So what's the difference between having an event with comments vs a thread with linked event?

If you have an event with comments, people can sign up and reply to it. In fact, in IPB's case you can do something that you can't in SMF, you can have *multiple* calendars. One for general use, ones for specific uses with their own permissions and access controls.

The real difference then becomes about visibility. Not being in a board means you don't have to run the gamut of mods like this not working properly or not behaving, and decoupling it from board access does mean you have better control over who can see what.
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

OCJ

#614
Yes maybe IPB has advantages but SMF does a lot with 1 calendar... for many people that's enough. It would be hard for some groups to justify paying for IPB or VB just for the luxuries. As a free open source software its still the best for events. Nightmare setting up the same deal in Joomla (I did) or Drupal. So it would be a terrible loss if the calendar slipped away.

And I will get told off soon for highjacking this thread  :P

As an addition...

The permissions for members work well as it is on SMF - topics and calendar. And why build a separate comment system for the calendar when a good one exists already, with an announcement system.

Arantor

QuoteAnd why build a separate comment system for the calendar when a good one exists already, with an announcement system.

Because of the problem you originally brought up?
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

OCJ

#616
Not if it works as I said ...
Posting from the calendar, some permissions for boards (like announce topic) are not applied until after posted - you mentioned this previously on another topic.
Keep all posting from boards only and just have the link/delink button.

QuoteI would stick with 1 system - post a topic and have a link button. Now it doesnt work uniformly by having post from calendar.


In fact, the best way it couldve been done would have been to have a 'link to calendar' checkbox on the post page (if calendar enabled). If checked it would open with the calendar title and date selection (similar to the way Simple Portal opens up to select pages and actions). Or just keep it really simple - link/delink button.

Arantor

The permission system works on the basis of checking the topic once it exists. Until that point in time, there's nothing to check. But board access is evaluated even earlier than that, it's pretty much the first thing set up, so without severely altering how SMF works, you can't do it.

Even with the way this mod works, you still can't make it work how you want, without major overhaul. The kind that pretty much can *only* be done as I said. That's kind of why I suggested it, because any alternative is going to be fragile and/or very slow.

Oh, and writing a new 'comment system' needn't take very long. A competent SMF developer should be able to get a basic one working inside a day, probably less.

The sad truth is, SMF's calendar is not actually very good, which is one of the reasons no-one really uses it. It's too limited to be thoroughly useful but just enough that it's not worth ditching entirely.

Point of fact: yes, I broke it into a plugin in my case, but I stopped work on it when I realised it might be better served by ditching it and starting over entirely - though I'd already made a vast number of changes by then, allowing for 'holiday add-on packs' to be produced that were translatable to other languages and stuff like that but would otherwise be optional per holiday/group of related holidays.

Just not enough people use it. I even had several people tell me that I was wasting my time trying to improve it and that I should just integrate Google Calendar instead.
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

OCJ

QuoteOh, and writing a new 'comment system' needn't take very long. A competent SMF developer should be able to get a basic one working inside a day, probably less.

Fair enough


There are quite a few groups like mine using it. SMF doesn't really market it well as an addon (event) calendar package. I tested lots of software and it takes a while to realize what you can do with the SMF calendar - using announce topic for example.

However bad it might seem it completes a 'group package' - message board, profiles, private messaging, calendar, subscription, groups. All free open source 'out of the box' set up that isnt possible with anything else. Joomla would require everything done separately and subscription and decent calendar would be paid mods from 100 to 200 dollars each. Add on a proper mailing list to send out, another 100 dollars. Jomsocial $$$ for profiles and messaging.  Then spend days every week on support forums figuring out why some plugins between them dont work.

There is a lot worse out there than SMF that people pay a lot of money for, but still get headaches fixing things.

TheListener

Getting the mods support topic back on track.

I installed the mod with no errors (thankfully).

However as a guest I was taken to the log in page when I clicked on the topic.

However I have seen the mod in use on another forum where both the topic and the last username were protected.

How would I manage to do this?

I am planning a couple boards as teens only and an adult only board.

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