A SMF with ALL MODS..? Can it be?

[Tesla Trooper]

Hi all...
We all know already that Vbulletin is the forums biggest player.. & that SMF still at the begaining in spite of all its success...
ok..
But from my surfing, I came out with the result that one of the most important reasons is the "Modded Versions"
which is:
- includes a lot o hacks & scripts like the topics bar & gender signs & enhanced editing box & many more..
- includes some good styles also
- Combined by a sole programmer or a VB fan (is there really any left  )

so I ask you this question..
What about doing the same thing & making our modded combined version as a tribute to our beloved SMF  ..?

waiting your opinions & ideas.. And versions..!!
cheers..

[/b]

[NEMINI]

you cannot redistribute SMF files so people can't release modded versions.  Only thing you could do is make one huge mod that installed all of the various mods you wanted at once.

[Tesla Trooper]

may be.. but I have two points :
- Did SMF been produced under the GPL licence? Which I know that is allowing this but with keeping the copyrights.. correct me if I were wrong.. & remember that this is not about editing the source code.. its about enclosing the mods & styles with or without combining them in the setup process...

- If I was wrong in point 1 & this was prohibited as you said.. what about:
Mods packs..?
can we combine many mods & styles with an easy installation script..?
I believe there is nothing with that theory..
By the way.. If there is something like that please link it here..
thanks for the quick respounce.. (& forgive my horrible English..)

[Peter Duggan]

- Did SMF been produced under the GPL licence?

It's not GPL but a custom open source licence permitting modding (and distribution of mods) but prohibiting redistribution of core code.

[Kindred]

1- SMF is not GPL.  SMF is released under a specific license which says "you may not re-distribute..." as well as "you must have the copyright..."

2-   If you ask the mod authors and they allow, then there is no reason you could not make a massive mod-package

the other reason that a pre-modded version would be a bad idea is that the SMF team would be assumed to support such a version.   We have enough people with questions and support on the basic installation (which is strenuously tested before release and avoids such over-load of "features" (undesired!))

[Tesla Trooper]

Oook everybody..
Replace "Modded Edition" in the poll question with "all Mods pack" (as is it descibed in point 2) & continue with voting & ideas & PROJECTS.. (project you made or made by others...
peace..

[babjusi]

I wouldn''t say that Vbulletin is still the forums biggest player, maybe it has been once, but not any more. I see more and more websites using SMF, or switching to SMF from other forums. SMF is becoming the forums biggest player, and that''s a fact.

Personally, I think that SMF is perfect just the way it is, all the mods that a person would want to have can be easily downloaded from the mod site and installed via the package installer. That''s what makes SMF the greatest of forums, the simplicity of figuring it out even for people like me that lack technical skills. That''s what I loved about the SMf the very first day I used it

[Kindred]

the point is, I know that *I* would not want an "all mod pack"

I have very few mods installed on my sites... and I am VERY picky about what mods I actually install.
A mod should onl be added to a system is there is a need for that particular function on that system...

For example, I have the custom profile fields mod installed on 40konline, to track what armies each user plays...   I do not have that mod installed on my other sites.

etc etc and so on...

the nice thing about mods is that you can pick and choose which "features" you want to add....

[Peter Duggan]

I have very few mods installed on my sites...

I have *none* (apart from my own hacks), although I'd like to see Jack.R.Abbit's super-sticky topics back.

But I've never understood why some folk seem to install mods almost for the sake of it (do they think mods are compulsory for real SMFers or something?), and can't imagine why anyone would want the bloat and potential conflicts/security risks of 'all known mods'!

[nitins60]

Still i don't agree with ppl who says SMF is biggest player! Comparing to vB, it lacks in many features! But thier Date of Births are different! Obviou vB is the biggest player! Simple examples, SMF doesn't allow two attachments of same name by diffe users! No proper PM! No affiliate option (atleast Developers didn't release a mod, where users are ready to pay for it)! It's very very hard to customize SMF with other themes, during upgrade (hell).... In vB, all of these are  simple things! I am not saying SMF is not good one! But vB is a great one (if you have $160, one good server)

[Isaac]

A SMF forum with all the mods installed would eat your resources big, big time.

[vbgamer45]

I should try it one day and see how much queries it would take up heh.  

[Peter Duggan]

I am not saying SMF is not good one! But vB is a great one (if you have $160, one good server)

FWIW, vB lacks some features that I regard as essential in SMF (particularly with regard to tracking what's read). But we're all entitled to have opinions and make our choices accordingly.

[babjusi]

To me, SMF is and will remain the best forum software there is out there

[NEMINI]

A SMF forum with all the mods installed would eat your resources big, big time.

YOu mean exactly how vB is a resource PIG? haha

[Coldfx]

Meh, I somewhat agree.  I've had ideas that the SMF team work with a seperate version of SMF, one aimed at more "public forums".  From what I've seen, the users I work with that use SMF, add at least 10 mods per a public forum, where as ones for private added less than 5.

The mods that SMF chooses over features sometimes surprises me.  Basic ones such as control over the subject length box, and minor matters like that are what seperate vB from SMF.  The major problem is, not all SMF customers know about PHP, or have the time to learn it, but it takes minor edits to some mods out there (IE: Editing language files for seperate themes), to run properly.

Eitherway it goes, even though this is what I want, I doubt the SMF Team may be using this idea.  If you take a look back, SMF is for simplicitiy, while we're talking about advancing it to become more than the base it's at right now.  SMF is simplisitic, if you don't agree with adding mods, then move over to vB.

[Master of Eternity]

Don't Worry Dude.
I am making one What Exactly You said
With all the Mods

[JayBachatero]

Don't Worry Dude.
I am making one What Exactly You said
With all the Mods

Not sure if you read the previous posts but let me restate what they said.  It is NOT allowed.  People have made it in a past and we have gotten their hosts to remove it.  Just don't waste your time.  We wont allow it .

[Daniel15]

Don't Worry Dude.
I am making one What Exactly You said
With all the Mods

Have you read the SMF license? Take a look at http://www.simplemachines.org/about/license.php.

1d: Any Distribution of this Package, whether as a Modified Package or not, requires express written consent from Simple Machines LLC.
...
2c: Any Distribution of a Modified Package or derivative requires express written consent from Simple Machines LLC.

So you are NOT allowed to redistribute ANY SMF files, unless you obtain written permission from Simple Machines LLC.

And, even if this was allowed, you'd need to get permission from all the authors of the mods you're planning to use (or code your own mods).

[4LP3RUZ1]

guys,

don't litter your SMF installations with unneccesary code. Its not "cool". It just isn't. Just install what you need. That's why you have a packet manager. And in the long run your site will be faster, more secure, less complicated and therefore more user friendly.

[bloc]

Meh, I somewhat agree.  I've had ideas that the SMF team work with a seperate version of SMF, one aimed at more "public forums".  From what I've seen, the users I work with that use SMF, add at least 10 mods per a public forum, where as ones for private added less than 5.

The mods that SMF chooses over features sometimes surprises me.  Basic ones such as control over the subject length box, and minor matters like that are what seperate vB from SMF.  The major problem is, not all SMF customers know about PHP, or have the time to learn it, but it takes minor edits to some mods out there (IE: Editing language files for seperate themes), to run properly.

Eitherway it goes, even though this is what I want, I doubt the SMF Team may be using this idea.  If you take a look back, SMF is for simplicitiy, while we're talking about advancing it to become more than the base it's at right now.  SMF is simplisitic, if you don't agree with adding mods, then move over to vB.

There is something called "too much control" too. I don't want a admin section that change everything in smallest detail - but be hell to just find the setting to adjust the size of avatars for example.

SMF was designed to reflect its name "Simple Machines" - as in easy to understand and operate. That will always be SMF's way, and mods only provide extras for this. Some mods will prove to be really importnant, others not..thats something every software need to consider. VB has an agenda, SMF has a slightly different one.

...There was in fact something along these lines when YabbSE was around..anyone remember YabbSE Supermod? A big all-in-one distribution that while was interesting enough, always had some errors here and there + an impossible task to make everything perform good(and update the components). it existed on a small site long after SMF was born, but the developers never got a version that would equal or outperform neither YabbSE itself or then newly formed SMF.

Its like stacking cake upon cake on each other, in the end you get just a big pile of cream...

[Master of Eternity]

Alright Dude,
Me left the Work in Between
Just good as it is
Me only Will Modify it on my Site
Thanks for Opening my Eyes Friends

[Peter Duggan]

don't litter your SMF installations with unneccesary code. Its not "cool". It just isn't. Just install what you need. That's why you have a packet manager. And in the long run your site will be faster, more secure, less complicated and therefore more user friendly.

Very, very well put, alperuzi!

[Coldfx]

There is something called "too much control" too. I don't want a admin section that change everything in smallest detail - but be hell to just find the setting to adjust the size of avatars for example.

SMF was designed to reflect its name "Simple Machines" - as in easy to understand and operate. That will always be SMF's way, and mods only provide extras for this. Some mods will prove to be really importnant, others not..thats something every software need to consider. VB has an agenda, SMF has a slightly different one.

...There was in fact something along these lines when YabbSE was around..anyone remember YabbSE Supermod? A big all-in-one distribution that while was interesting enough, always had some errors here and there + an impossible task to make everything perform good(and update the components). it existed on a small site long after SMF was born, but the developers never got a version that would equal or outperform neither YabbSE itself or then newly formed SMF.

Its like stacking cake upon cake on each other, in the end you get just a big pile of cream...

True, that little fact I did leave out, which now I realize, was why I dropped my original ideas of SMF completing this :O

[ubermensch]

I don't actually like the standard SMF. I've always found it lacking in things I consider essential. Hence the huge amount of mods

But, I run two forums, and my main one is modded to hell, while the other only has a few (vReportBoard etc)

[Daniel15]

I don't actually like the standard SMF. I've always found it lacking in things I consider essential. Hence the huge amount of mods

But, I run two forums, and my main one is modded to hell, while the other only has a few (vReportBoard etc)

Which features do you consider essential?

Note that one of our goals is to keep SMF as simple as possible (hence the name "Simple Machines" ). We don't bloat the system with hundreds of features that a small portion of users will use, but instead add features that the majority of users will use .

[nitins60]

Dani, then i want to raise a question about quality (which is usually stated by SMF) of Karma system! From the birth of SMF, it never get developed, you never get atleast 20% supporting it as good (skip the SMF team). What's yr answer?  

[ubermensch]

Which features do you consider essential?

I think the vReportBoard is an absolute must, as well as the Member Colour Mod. Those are the two I *always* install. Depending on the board, I'll also install the by-user permissions, which is handy if the forum is very popular.

I'm in agreement with nitins60 too, I think the karma system is pointless. Maybe replace it with a thank system (The one similar to vBulletin's).

[bloc]

But here you go..you have a certain opinion on what you think is needed - but you don't get to hear the feedback as the team does, received through testers, visitors, pm, email etc. - and has been doing so over the years since SMF was born.

So while it might be pointless to you, its still( the karma) a thing many wishes to keep around. Thus its kept. But I will certainly agreed it needs some upgrade, other parts of SMF have been more developed than the karma function really.

[Kindred]

and to the point... I can say that I have never felt the need for, nor installed either of those mods on any system that I run.

[ubermensch]

But here you go..you have a certain opinion on what you think is needed - but you don't get to hear the feedback as the team does, received through testers, visitors, pm, email etc. - and has been doing so over the years since SMF was born.

So while it might be pointless to you, its still( the karma) a thing many wishes to keep around. Thus its kept. But I will certainly agreed it needs some upgrade, other parts of SMF have been more developed than the karma function really.

That's one reason I would like a proper thank mod. It's much easier to "thank" someone than to bump a very old thread (example).

But I do agree, the mods are there if people would like them. Personally, I find the standard SMF package bland and slightly annoying (I even changed the AdminCP language to fit on one line), but that's just me

SMF is still the free forum of choice for me, vBulletin being the paid one.

[nitins60]

and to the point... I can say that I have never felt the need for, nor installed either of those mods on any system that I run.

i already mentioned one line about SMF TEAM! it's because you don't use!

Ofcourse, i don't even support thanks system, because it never gives proper thankfulness towards the poster! Anyway, Now you entered in DEVELOPMENT EDITION! still if you maintain your old karma system! It's pointless to choose SMF! Ofcourse, SMF is doing great job in many ways (like introducing editors etc...)! But my strict question s, why are you neglecting Karma system, which s essential for many forums! Here many ppl =85% SMF users (skipping once again SMF TEAM )

[JayBachatero]

The karma system is something that was left in from YaBB SE.  That's why I think it has not been improved.  Some people consider the karma system border line bloat.  BTW I run a forum and I have a few mods installed.  But different people have different needs.  So just cause you and I like something, doesn't mean that it should be a default feature.

[Kindred]

Why does the fact that I am on the SMF support team make my own opinion any less valid?

I run my own forums. I admin several others... and I truly believe that fewer mods is better. I have never used either of the two mods that were mentioned as "critical".
I do have a few mods installed... Visual Warning, Improved CAPTCHA...   and I am working on the PhatCalPack (an update to the calendar system).   So, it's not that no one on the SMF uses mods... we do. However, each of us has very different ideas as to what is "important"

I will say, that is the glory of the mod-package system. You can modify your own forum any way you want, and if it's a useful mod, you can release it for others to do likewise.   So why doesn't one of the people who keep complaining step up and make an improved karma mod?

I don't even use (or care to use) ANY karma system, myself...

And those opinions have no bearing on or relation to the fact that I am a member of the SMF team.

[Isaac]

But different people have different needs. 

Exactly.  And in my opinion, SMF does a good job of catering to the majority, and the MOD authors fill in the gaps.   

[nitins60]

Oh... I was thinki of point @you! You appeared jay!

Really, i don't know the main project manager here! If he gives a perfect reason or consider it as one of the major thing, SMF HAVE TO LOOK INTO....

The one more problem s SMF is throwing all leading mod developers into SMF developers room, where they are getting bound by SMF rules! I remembered a post about Code Monkey

Once again, clone him, give him to us for creating new mods! I don't know how much part he s involved in SMF DE'FAULT' development! But throw him outside, where he did a good job by creating G.A., media center, attac permiss, many basic needs.... So it's the time to Code Monkey to join once again in Mod develop team to do these things! Really SMF s very lucky to get a MONKEY like this    

[nitins60]

Why does the fact that I am on the SMF support team make my own opinion any less valid?

I run my own forums. I admin several others... and I truly believe that fewer mods is better. I have never used either of the two mods that were mentioned as "critical".
I do have a few mods installed... Visual Warning, Improved CAPTCHA...   and I am working on the PhatCalPack (an update to the calendar system).   So, it's not that no one on the SMF uses mods... we do. However, each of us has very different ideas as to what is "important"

I will say, that is the glory of the mod-package system. You can modify your own forum any way you want, and if it's a useful mod, you can release it for others to do likewise.   So why doesn't one of the people who keep complaining step up and make an improved karma mod?

I don't even use (or care to use) ANY karma system, myself...

And those opinions have no bearing on or relation to the fact that I am a member of the SMF team.

sorry for it ya! Because the most of the SMF ppl simply skip them without a valid reason! I do observe many things!

Suppose, you are maintaini a forum @ charitable trust or some thing related to religions forums... You don't have to use Karma system. But what about forums where ppl shares ideas, projects, technology related issues, files sharing or any sort of them?.....   

[perplexed]

I don't like VBulletin, I don't like the look of it and I dont like the functionality, I find it to be not-user friendly.

When I was looking around for forum software I tried several and I prefer smf software.  I wouldnt have minded paying for VBulletin if I thought it was better but I dont think it is.

I post on many forums with different software, most of them on the whole are not smf, but they don't feel good to me.  Even from the beginning SMF has a better feel to it, a better look and is user friendly IMO.

I have over 30 mods installed, some are for fun, nice little extra features for the users to play with, not essential by any means.  These should not be default features.  Some of the admin mods should be default features perhaps.  The ability to ignore boards, users, visual warnings, reporting, logging mod activity, even the signature settings, smiley settings, that sort of thing should maybe be considered for the next version.  Mods that enhance what is already there, eg changing the font sizes to drop down boxes, karma descriptions etc might also be good to have, but my experience so far has been good in that I have been able to install all these extra features with the minimum of fuss. 

the karma system is something our users like, even though we have installed the shop and encourage them to try giving people something useful like shop credits, they still insist on karma lol  We give karma out for contests, and activity and various other things, and people like it.

As Kindred says above, not everyone would want to have all these extra features as default, so where do you draw the line?

[nitins60]

Ofcourse, even i don't need anything which s my personal! Really i love to play with many mods which are available here! Personally i have only G.A., admanagement! That's all! But i really prefer develo karma system which s not changed for years

[nitins60]

But i really wonder daniel is not doing a mod related to vb karma system! It's 90% similar to his shop mod, which fulfills the SM karma needs  

[snakeplissken]

I personally don't think that there is really much, if anything that needs to be added to SMF currently. I don't even think that the karma system should be standard. Could there be improvements to SMF....sure. But a need for adding more features really isn't that necessary.

By the way, I have tested all the main forums out there and by far SMF is the easiest and best. There are a few things I could pick out from different ones I would like to see in SMF, well mainly a better profile. but other than that SMF is still the best.

[KGIII]

I should try it one day and see how much queries it would take up heh. 

I don't have ALL of them installed but between my own and my favorites (something like 50 or 60 I think - I haven't looked in a while) it can seriously hinder servers. It does require a dedicated server if you have any traffic at all really. (Or at least a server with only a few clients who don't mind if they suddenly have ISSUES.)

[Dannii]

But i really wonder daniel is not doing a mod related to vb karma system! It's 90% similar to his shop mod, which fulfills the SM karma needs

Please stop double posting. As to the shop mod, I see little similarity between it and a 'karma' feature, but if it fulfils your needs, use it and stop complaining.

[Daniel15]

But i really wonder daniel is not doing a mod related to vb karma system! It's 90% similar to his shop mod, which fulfills the SM karma needs 

I'm just way too busy to work on any large mods at the moment

[Peter Duggan]

sorry for it ya! Because the most of the SMF ppl simply skip them without a valid reason! I do observe many things!

So that's your opinion and I suppose you're entitled to it, but IMHO it's a very unfair accusation and your observation is not objective!