Bullet list

[Chris Cromer]

I think that when you have text selected in the post textarea that it should put a [ li][ /li] around each line that is selected. This would make it alot quicker to make bullet lists for users.

So if I had this text highlighted:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

Data 1
Data 2
Data 3
Data 4

It would turn it into this:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

[list]
[li]Data 1[/li]
[li]Data 2[/li]
[li]Data 3[/li]
[li]Data 4[/li]
[/list]

[khoking]

I support this "feature", in fact I think the current LIST command in the post box is a BUG and not complete.

As this is the output from the current post box:

• Data 1
  Data 2
  Data 3
  Data 4

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

[list]
[li]Data 1
Data 2
Data 3
Data 4[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

manually editing each line is time consuming and troublesome... 

[bloc]

But how would the script know when its actually a list item - and not just a linebreak in your text? If you had full sentences in each list item it would seem more like paragraphs than listings.

[Peter Duggan]

I think that when you have text selected in the post textarea that it should put a [ li][ /li] around each line that is selected. This would make it alot quicker to make bullet lists for users.

I support this "feature", in fact I think the current LIST command in the post box is a BUG and not complete.

Well, I saw khoking's topic on this earlier today and was intending to reply along similar lines to Bloc, but I'll go further and give an example which simply wouldn't work like this:

Here is my list, and this is its first item.
This is the start of its second item, but I need to add some more info to that.
Here is my extra info, which requires a separate line for clarity.
Here is my third item, which requires a nesting list of its own to complete.
Nesting sub-item 1.
Nesting sub-item 2.
Nesting sub-item 3.
And here is my fourth item, which would be my eighth if this had all been automated!

So which do I want?

This:

• Here is my list, and this is its first item.
• This is the start of its second item, but I need to add some more info to that.
• Here is my extra info, which requires a separate line for clarity.
• Here is my third item, which requires a nesting list of its own to complete.
• Nesting sub-item 1.
• Nesting sub-item 2.
• Nesting sub-item 3.
• And here is my fourth item, which would be my eighth if this had all been automated!

Or this:

• Here is my list, and this is its first item.
• This is the start of its second item, but I need to add some more info to that.
  Here is my extra info, which requires a separate line for clarity.
• Here is my third item, which requires a nesting list of its own to complete.
  
  
  
  • Nesting sub-item 1.
  • Nesting sub-item 2.
  • Nesting sub-item 3.
• And here is my fourth item, which would be my eighth if this had all been automated!

?

manually editing each line is time consuming and troublesome... 

Perhaps so, but I do it on a regular basis, it's the only failsafe way to format a list and definitely not a 'bug'!

[khoking]

Hi Peter, I understand what you mean, but MOST of the time people just want a simple bullet feature for the many lines that they select as follow:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

Style 1
[list]
[li]Here is my list, and this is its first item.[/li]
[li]This is the start of its second item, but I need to add some more info to that.[/li]
[li][size=smaller]Here is my extra info, which requires a separate line for clarity.[/size][/li]
[li]Here is my third item, which requires a nesting list of its own to complete.[/li]
[li]Nesting sub-item 1.[/li]
[li]Nesting sub-item 2.[/li]
[li]Nesting sub-item 3.[/li]
[li]And here is my fourth item, which would be my eighth if this had all been automated![/li]
[/list]

If someone want to use more advance nesting like yours, they can always edit it manually like what you are doing.

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

Style 2
[list]
[li]Here is my list, and this is its first item.[/li]
[li]This is the start of its second item, but I need to add some more info to that.
[size=smaller]Here is my extra info, which requires a separate line for clarity.[/size][/li]
[li]Here is my third item, which requires a nesting list of its own to complete.
[list]
[li]Nesting sub-item 1.[/li]
[li]Nesting sub-item 2.[/li]
[li]Nesting sub-item 3.[/li]
[/list]
[/li]
[li]And here is my fourth item, which would be my eighth if this had all been automated![/li]
[/list]

However, if following the current system now, one will get by default the following:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

Style 3
[list]
[li]Here is my list, and this is its first item.
This is the start of its second item, but I need to add some more info to that.
Here is my extra info, which requires a separate line for clarity.
Here is my third item, which requires a nesting list of its own to complete.
Nesting sub-item 1.
Nesting sub-item 2.
Nesting sub-item 3.
And here is my fourth item, which would be my eighth if this had all been automated![/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

I do not understand why SMF want the Style 3 above as default (who want to have Style 3 type of bullet???) as it makes EDITING a MUST for every bullet command that we are going to use. If SMF can just bullet based on sentense (paragraph) or lines, then it would at least save the trouble for those who want to have bullets on every sentence they select. If people want to have more advance nesting style, they can always manually editing it based on your style above later by removing some of the <li> codes.

I don't see the reason to having Style 3 above as default, as it is definitely a WRONG STYLE in bulleting.

[khoking]

But how would the script know when its actually a list item - and not just a linebreak in your text? If you had full sentences in each list item it would seem more like paragraphs than listings.

Hi Bloc,

What we need is just a basic simple bullet command that add <li> to every new paragraph (paragraph has ENTER code at the end), and NOT the current EDITING MUST bullet style. Read my post above to Peter.

[KGIII]

I can see what you are saying and the reason behind it. Making the list inserts two of them to start with. I personally cut/paste to make more if I need them. I think the reason it isn't included is because there are already a bunch of BBC buttons already and more would just make for more confusion - more so when people seldom use the feature and many don't understand the principles of BBC in the first place. However, if you wanted, you could take a look at some of the mods that are out there (specifically like the IMDb mod or the URL Popup mod) and see how those are added and, with that, you could simply add it to your own forum or create a mod and submit it for review so that other people could also make use of your idea if they wanted.

[khoking]

hi KGIII,

With all due respect, I really dont understand why this feature needs to be made into a mod.

For people who are not good with BBC, they would have find even more problem having to edit the <li> codes one by one for each bullet. Most will still understand by selecting a list of sentences they want to bullet, then click the bullet button (as in microsoft word, vb and IPB boards). The current Bullet style in SMF is JUST WRONG (require manual editing). I do not see a reason why SMF team wants to keep the current style of bullet...

[KGIII]

Maybe it will make it into the DE line but 1.1 is feature locked so if you wanted it any time soon you would want to make it into a mod.

[khoking]

KGIII,

I understand that SMF team is busy with lots of feature requests, but I still find the bullet command in SMF is "INCOMPLETE" or "MISTAKE". That's not a feature request, but rather a request to "CORRECT" the "mistake" in the posting box.

At least if SMF team can agree with me and approve this request, then I can wait for SMF team to correct it in the future. I don't know how to make mod, and I am very poor with codings... I would prefer SMF team to correct this and put it back to the right way of bulleting instead of having a mod to correct it.

I hope SMF team can take this into consideration, though it is not a problem to me (I know how to manually copy paste the codes) or anybody out there, but it would definitely make SMF software better without that "mistake".

Thanks...

[bloc]

It actually does makes more sense to have each line get its own li tag. If it gets wrong you simply remove those that should not be there.

Its not a "mistake" though lol , as it has been like that for a very long time and not considered anything else than just one particular way to deal with lists - but maybe it can be changed for future versions.

[khoking]

Thanks Bloc for agreeing with me. First I thought it was me who don't know how to use the bullet feature...now I am surprised that it has been like that for a very long time. I do hope this can be corrected or changed in future though...please.

[Matthew Schenker]

I absolutely agree with khoking!

My members have written to me asking how to use the bullet feature, and I have to admit until I read this discussion I had no idea how to help them, because I didn't know why SMF produced wacky bullet lists!

Keep in mind that most people in online forums don't want to toy around with code.  If they try something and it produces unexpected results, they stop using the feature.  Then you just have wasted space in the BBC code area.

How difficult is it to update the bullet feature to work line by line?  I'm not a programmer, so I always ask these questions carefully!

By the way, I am also puzzled by the "table" features.  But that's another discussion!

[Peter Duggan]

If they try something and it produces unexpected results, they stop using the feature.

While I can see where you're coming from, what SMF currently produces is exactly what anyone who's used to any kind of markup language would expect. Now, whether that's a blessing or a curse is possibly a matter of opinion (and I'd be the first to acknowledge that lists and tables are more cumbersome — yes, even difficult! — to handle than other BBC), but you could level the same criticism at any BBC for users with solely or primarily WYSIWYG editing experience.

How difficult is it to update the bullet feature to work line by line?

It shouldn't be difficult at all to implement a basic line-by-line list feature for basic lists. But it might be better presented as an option (call it 'quick list' or something) so those of us who also like to post more complex lists can choose the most appropriate 'template' at the time of posting.

By the way, I am also puzzled by the "table" features.  But that's another discussion!

It is indeed, because you can't reduce tables to the single (line-by-line) dimension of a simple list. But help is available for both lists and tables at:

• The BBC reference in every forums' Help files.
• 'Advanced BB Codes: H-Q' from the Online Manual.
• 'Advanced BB Codes: R-W' from the Online Manual.

And perhaps that's at least some help?

[khoking]

It shouldn't be difficult at all to implement a basic line-by-line list feature for basic lists. But it might be better presented as an option (call it 'quick list' or something) so those of us who also like to post more complex lists can choose the most appropriate 'template' at the time of posting.

Peter,

How can the CURRENT WRONG STYLE of bullet list helps those who want more complicated bullet style? You still have to edit every line, no?

How can the list LINE BY LINE  bullet list prevent you from making a more complicated bullet style? You can just REMOVE the li codes from the lines you dont want it to get bulleted and add list to those you want to get indented bullet, NO?

Making bullet list line by line will at least help those who are not good in codes to work faster and understand easier, while those who are more capable in coding can always move and edit the codes to make it more complicated bullet style.

[nitins60]

Even i didn't understand BBC inside list! Some time i can use

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna


[list]
[li][color=red][b]hi[/b][/color][/li]
[*][color=red][b]hi[/b][/color]
[*][color=green]bye[/color]
[/list]

in some posts, color will be passed well, some times it gives [/color], althoug the rest works fine. Without closing color code, it prints color, and gives [/color] in posts. Never figured out why it happens, where two similar posts print differently   

[Peter Duggan]

How can the CURRENT WRONG STYLE of bullet list helps those who want more complicated bullet style?

It's not 'wrong'! (It just doesn't work the way you expect, which isn't the same thing.)

How can the list LINE BY LINE  bullet list prevent you from making a more complicated bullet style? You can just REMOVE the li codes from the lines you dont want it to get bulleted and add list to those you want to get indented bullet, NO?

Well, it needs to count up a number of pre-typed lines for a start instead of inserting a convenient empty framework for me to reshape for my expected content:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

[list]
[li][/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

Now, you presumably type your lines, highlight the lot, hit 'Insert List' and want what's highlighted turned into a list. But I usually set up my list tag structure before filling it line by line. So that's two quite different ways of working and, whereas I *might* try yours for a simple list if it was available, I'd actually find it a hindrance for a more complex list.

[khoking]

How can the CURRENT WRONG STYLE of bullet list helps those who want more complicated bullet style?

It's not 'wrong'! (It just doesn't work the way you expect, which isn't the same thing.)

How can the list LINE BY LINE  bullet list prevent you from making a more complicated bullet style? You can just REMOVE the li codes from the lines you dont want it to get bulleted and add list to those you want to get indented bullet, NO?

Well, it needs to count up a number of pre-typed lines for a start instead of inserting a convenient empty framework for me to reshape for my expected content:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

[list]
[li][/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

Now, you presumably type your lines, highlight the lot, hit 'Insert List' and want what's highlighted turned into a list. But I usually set up my list tag structure before filling it line by line. So that's two quite different ways of working and, whereas I *might* try yours for a simple list if it was available, I'd actually find it a hindrance for a more complex list.

Ok, I understand what you mean now, but it is only suitable for those who know about codings.

But by using your current method, for those who are NOT familiar with codes, they wont know what to do with the li li codes.

On vB board, IPB board, Microsoft Words...etc. softwares, all are typing lines by lines first then only change those lines into bullets (by selecting the lines and click bullets command. This is what MOST people would think how it works, why does SMF wants to make it difficult and making codes editing a MUST?

How many people are actually using a complex bullet structures out there? Most of us just want a simple line by line bullets MOST of the time, first / one level index bullet type. Why not just give us a simple single level line by line bullets, and let those who want complex bullets to edit it themselves?

[khoking]

Can SMF team reconsider this feature request? I get really tired of manually editing each and every list item everytime I want to insert a long list...  &gt;

I copy a press release from a product page, with a list of product specs inside. I have to manually copy and page every:

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

[li][/li] on the start and end of every sentence.

I wish to select those sentences at once, then when click on the "list" button, every sentence should automatically have

Koodi [Valitse] Laajenna

[li][/li] in between.

This is a simple request, very very useful or easy to use than the current setting.

Please do consider.