About Customization Team.

[TosTos]

       I just want to discuss if customization team behave fair for theme authors because I feel someone in the team doesn't like me.

      I tried to find answer why they try to find mistakes in my themes that I submitted. There might be some answers.
      A few months ago, I submitted a theme. I had created that theme by modifying a theme that I saw somewhere. I thought the creator of the theme was the owner of that webpage. After modifying the theme (adding flash files,adding features, chaging images, and adding multicolor feature), I felt I did a good job, and I could submit it after getting permission from him. Then, I contacted him, and asked his permission. Later, I submitted the theme. Then, someone complained that the theme was ripped. Then, my theme was removed. I accepted that was a legal issue, and I should have contacted with the original author. However, I believed that SMF shouldn't be angry about me becuase I tried to reach him after learning that I worked on a ripped theme, but I wasn't able to reach him. I thought I modified an SMF theme, changed a lot. Later, I got a chance to get original author's contact information, and , explained, and said sorry. In fact, I got a permission him to write another theme which had some images from the previous theme. Then, I submitted the theme, and after I fixed all errors, I waited its being approved.

        By the way, at that time, I saw that one of my themes was removed by the team. I believed there was something wrong, and they removed, and I didn't ask them what was the problem. I was still waiting for my theme being aproved.Two weeks later, I saw some themes were approved, and they were submitted after mine. Then, I asked team members if there is some problem about my theme. They were angry with me because I PMed them. I said Ok, and sorry. Then, I waited for about one month, and it was finally approved. However, very few people could see my new theme. Maybe, most of you don't know, or hear there was a theme called NightHawk.
       
         Anyway, I was just dissappointed. Later, I removed my other themes because I found errors, and didn't have time to fix those erros. Instead of that,

        I wrote very nice theme which didn't have any error. I called it EsRaReNGiZ-EnIgMaTiC. It was based on NightHawk. Then, I submitted it, waited 2 weeks, and got a PM. It was saying my theme was not XHTML compatible. Then, I said what? What does it mean XHTML compatiblity? I met with PHP codes here. I learned a lot of things here,. I learned coding, but didn't know XHTML. Then, I said Ok. I am going to correct it. I googled. I saw there was a validator, it was cehcking if it is valid XHTML transtional and even it was giving what codes were giving errors. Then, I corrected all 300 errors. I changed the theme a lot. And, even I combained the theme with Dilber. Then, finally, in 10 hours, I got valid XHTML. Then, I submitted the theme again, because it was new theme whihc was much different from the previous theme.

        Then, a few days later, I got a PM saying that my theme was rejected. Then, I was shocked. What was the problem now? They were saying that they found some small copyrigthed images in it. Then, I said I was very sorry for that happened, but I wasn't sure if I used those images really. I checked the theme package, and I found images. They were from NightHawk theme. I forgot them inside, and Enigmatic theme wasn't using those actually. Then, I erased them, and resubmitted. But, this time I wasn't patient.

        Then, I saw there were new themes released. I was sorry because my new theme will not be seen again. Then, I just wonderd if the recent themes were XHTML compatible. Then, I downloaded them, and checked. You know the answer. None of them is XHTML compatible although they have the codes saying they are. Then, I got mad. I started to think about why they were searching my themes so deeply to find errors in it? I couldn't find an answer. Do you know the answer? I just expect SMF to be fair. I was believing it is fair. I didn't do any bad thing to users. I just submitted my themes, and expected them to be on the place they deserved.

         Sometimes, they were based on some themes such as lightining-DK, OrnageLT and Dilber. Then, I wrote that my themes were based on them, and gave my special thanks to their authors by writing on the descriptio of the themes. I am sorry for my long topic here, but I just want to discuss if there are authors feeling same things as me.

          Here is my new theme if you wonder what I submitted. Use www.etkiweb.com/deneme/index.php ( user: deneme pass: 999999 ).You can validate that if they are valid XHTML.

[karlbenson]

1) Please use paragraphs. Its aids reading.  The lack of which is often described as "forum diahorrea".

2) If there is a legal issue with a theme, smf should and MUST pull it from the list whilst the legal issues are resolved. Thats nothing against the creator, but to protect smf itself.

3) Basing a theme on another theme is a 'derivitive' of that theme, and so copyrights of the original may still be in effect.  And so as per 2) its best that these are fully investigated.

4) I'm not a team member and not on the "inside", but I'm sure that they strive to be fair, as well as following the guidelines and requirements set. In my experience for all my mods which I have submitted, they have been nothing but fair.

Although FIFO (First In First Out) principle is used, when a theme hits a roadblock or issue, that theme may get left to the side whilst it is discussed/resolved and preventing the theme/mod queue being held up.

5) Just as you and I create themes/mods in our spare time, the smf team go through each theme much the same.  They try to validate/approve/check theme/mods as best as possible. But at the end of the day they are only human.

So solutions to this topic?
- Make your OWN themes xhtml compliant and fully compliant with the guidelines
- Rather than 'moan' about other themes being non-xhtml valid, help put back to the community and post in the topic for each theme which is xhtml invalid and tell the theme author of the issue.

With the development of 2.0, most themes will have to be re-done from scratch anyway.

[TosTos]

Thank you for the comment. I corrected the message.

[karlbenson]

No worries
p.s that site link you posted.

My anti-virus/anti-spyware is giving a warning over some toolbar junk.

[TosTos]

Ok. I think the toolbar was giving that. I am going to erase it. You can check other link, I am erasing the first link, will check that toolbar.

[nitins60]

Regarding XHTML compliment, it's bit ridicules!! There are hardly few themes which are XHTML vali.

Before rejecting, they must send pm to you and explain the problem. If this is not happened, then Something Wrong

[shadow82x]

Regarding XHTML compliment, it's bit ridicules!! There are hardly few themes which are XHTML vali.

Before rejecting, they must send pm to you and explain the problem. If this is not happened, then Something Wrong

Not exactly it has a very valid point. If you are a theme creator themes should be XHTML if you know what you are doing.

[Dannii]

If you can't at least write (xhtml) that's validates against a traditional doctype then that's a big problem on your part. Mind you, a strict doctype is much better.

[TosTos]

Regarding XHTML compliment, it's bit ridicules!! There are hardly few themes which are XHTML vali.

Before rejecting, they must send pm to you and explain the problem. If this is not happened, then Something Wrong

I am suspicious too. If they want every author to submit XHTML complimented themes, that is fine. However, check recent themes. None of them passes from validator.
However, I corrected that problem too as I explained above. Mine passes from validator now.

Regarding XHTML compliment, it's bit ridicules!! There are hardly few themes which are XHTML vali.

Before rejecting, they must send pm to you and explain the problem. If this is not happened, then Something Wrong

Not exactly it has a very valid point. If you are a theme creator themes should be XHTML if you know what you are doing.

        So, why are they approving themes if they are not XHTML although they told me it has to be XHTML?
        Anyway. Now,  I know that they won't approve my themes from now on I think I talked about them a lot.
        However, to be honest, I accept the point not to approve using copyrighted images. They rejected second time because there were images in buttons folder although my theme wasn't using them. I agree that, I should have checked, and erased them all.
        I am just dissappointed because they told me they won't approve a theme if it is not XHTML. They said that there is a code saying that themes docutype is XHTML. Then so, It has to pass validator. So,I am repeading. What about new themes? Why are they approving them if that is a rule?

[Gary]

DISCLAIMER: This post is my own personal opinion and does not represent that of the Customize Team members, it's leaders, the project managers or the team as a whole.

1. I'd assume that the first theme you're referring to would be the one that was ripped from vbskins. We can not accept any theme that is a rip of another from another software without permission. If you can provide that you do have permission, so we can investigate it.

The same as the PM's indicated that we cant accept single copyrighted images either. When looking through your themes we found copyrighted images and pulled them for the time being, the PM notified you of this, and said that you were allowed to fix it, which you did, and we will look at it again, and let you know of any further developments, if any are required.

2. The time takes to look at each theme varies, the customise team is actually very limited to how many people actually look at the themes, far outnumbered by those who handle mods. The number is actually just two on the customise team, and one on the doc team, helping out. So the time it takes for a theme, can be quite a while. But bear in mind that they are not looked at in order of when they were submitted. The order which (I personally) look at themes is entirely random. (I usually download all those awaiting approval and then install them alphabetically by file name once downloaded, make notes on paper then prepare any PM's that I need to do)

We know a lot of work goes into making themes, but that also means, that there is a lot of work that has to be done to make sure that they're alright. We have to check for language strings, images, copyrights and all that sort of stuff. It's all very time consuming. Just like mods, larger themes may take longer to analyse, while simpler themes can be checked rather quickly.

Getting the theme onto the theme sites first page should never be considered as an accomplishment, as long as you've released a theme and it's approved, the fact that it'll be available is a better reward. As long as it's available for download, people will see it.

3. About the XHTML, it's a new thing we're looking for now as we've added it into (the currently being written) theme guidelines, so we may not be as vigilant on it as we are with the rest of the issues we regularly come across. It's not like we're singling you out on the issue. Others have actually been consulted on it. Consult the theme author if you happen to come across a theme that doesn't come XHTML valid, and help them to fix it. It's better to help than to sit around moaning about something you can help them with.

4. nitins60, even once a theme has been rejected, we usually allow them to fix a theme up so that they can PM us again and take another look.

Again, just my own personal feelings.

-ALM

[Dannii]

Is XHTML required, or would a valid HTML4 or 5 theme be okay too?

[TosTos]

3. About the XHTML, it's a new thing we're looking for now as we've added it into (the currently being written) theme guidelines, so we may not be as vigilant on it as we are with the rest of the issues we regularly come across. It's not like we're singling you out on the issue. Others have actually been consulted on it. Consult the theme author if you happen to come across a theme that doesn't come XHTML valid, and help them to fix it. It's better to help than to sit around moaning about something you can help them with.

I will help them if they ask my help. You should prove yourself about my themes too. You always wanted me to write faultless themes. You wanted empty errorlog. Finally, you looked for XHTML compatıblıty. Hence, It is my right to complain about approved themes not being faultless. If you don't single out me, prove it by warning authors, and saying that you cannot approve if there are errors (as you did to me). Then I prove myself to help theme authors to fix their themes and to get XHTML as well.

[Gary]

Is XHTML required, or would a valid HTML4 or 5 theme be okay too?

We'll allow it if that's what the Doctype says it is.

-ALM

[Abangyarudo]

3. About the XHTML, it's a new thing we're looking for now as we've added it into (the currently being written) theme guidelines, so we may not be as vigilant on it as we are with the rest of the issues we regularly come across. It's not like we're singling you out on the issue. Others have actually been consulted on it. Consult the theme author if you happen to come across a theme that doesn't come XHTML valid, and help them to fix it. It's better to help than to sit around moaning about something you can help them with.

I will help them if they ask my help. You should prove yourself about my themes too. You always wanted me to write faultless themes. You wanted empty errorlog. Finally, you looked for XHTML compatıblıty. Hence, It is my right to complain about approved themes not being faultless. If you don't single out me, prove it by warning authors, and saying that you cannot approve if there are errors (as you did to me). Then I prove myself to help theme authors to fix their themes and to get XHTML as well.

if your having errrors in the errorlog then I'm sorry they should all be fixed. Alot of the people who use this site (me included) are not that great with any programmling or web development language. I'm sorry but I see everything they are saying and yet your coming across as very argumentive and brash. Even your attempts at saying how patient ya were come across as you were defensive to the idea that your theme could be rejected.

Considering that the team does this for free you should have more respect for them in my honest opinion. I don't know much about the differences between html languages as far as XHTML, PHP,  and valid html 4 or 5 but it seems to me if there are errors, copyrighted images that you do NOT own the copyright to, and in a format which is unsuitable then they are perfectly in their right to refuse your theme.

Myself as a beginning user and my first exposure to this software and the programming that goes into it would have problems if I saw constant errors in the error logs that were due to the theme. If your theme is not up to par its not an insult it just means you have to work harder on it. I can't see why the team would have singled you out for any reason besides the nature your showing to me through that post and even then I don't believe that they have. They just seem to want you to conform to their guidelines for quality purposes. They check so much for errors and for quality because not all users are proficent with these languages but really enjoy the sandbox software that is smf.

These are again just my opinions as again I don't know the particulars about the situation besides what was posted on here.

[TosTos]

3. About the XHTML, it's a new thing we're looking for now as we've added it into (the currently being written) theme guidelines, so we may not be as vigilant on it as we are with the rest of the issues we regularly come across. It's not like we're singling you out on the issue. Others have actually been consulted on it. Consult the theme author if you happen to come across a theme that doesn't come XHTML valid, and help them to fix it. It's better to help than to sit around moaning about something you can help them with.

I will help them if they ask my help. You should prove yourself about my themes too. You always wanted me to write faultless themes. You wanted empty errorlog. Finally, you looked for XHTML compatıblıty. Hence, It is my right to complain about approved themes not being faultless. If you don't single out me, prove it by warning authors, and saying that you cannot approve if there are errors (as you did to me). Then I prove myself to help theme authors to fix their themes and to get XHTML as well.

if your having errrors in the errorlog then I'm sorry they should all be fixed. Alot of the people who use this site (me included) are not that great with any programmling or web development language. I'm sorry but I see everything they are saying and yet your coming across as very argumentive and brash. Even your attempts at saying how patient ya were come across as you were defensive to the idea that your theme could be rejected.

Considering that the team does this for free you should have more respect for them in my honest opinion. I don't know much about the differences between html languages as far as XHTML, PHP,  and valid html 4 or 5 but it seems to me if there are errors, copyrighted images that you do NOT own the copyright to, and in a format which is unsuitable then they are perfectly in their right to refuse your theme.

Myself as a beginning user and my first exposure to this software and the programming that goes into it would have problems if I saw constant errors in the error logs that were due to the theme. If your theme is not up to par its not an insult it just means you have to work harder on it. I can't see why the team would have singled you out for any reason besides the nature your showing to me through that post and even then I don't believe that they have. They just seem to want you to conform to their guidelines for quality purposes. They check so much for errors and for quality because not all users are proficent with these languages but really enjoy the sandbox software that is smf.

These are again just my opinions as again I don't know the particulars about the situation besides what was posted on here.

        I just meant that whenever I submited my themes, they were checking errolog, and saying that I had to fix it, then they will approve. Then, I fixed the errors. However, there are recent themes which have errors. Hence, I asked them why they approved those themes.
        Anyway, I guess I complained about these issues very much. I believe they will be more fair from now on. I was a little angry because they were very suspicious,prejudicial or carefull about my themes after the copyrighted images issue. I had tried to explain that I didn't know that I changed, and modyfied a ripped theme when I learned that was it.
        After that, I wrote new themes, but they were very suspicious, and I felt they were trying to punish me because of that ripped theme. Hence, they asked me to submit faultless themes, although they approved themes which have errors. Hence, to be fair, I told them apply the same process for every theme. I was punished quitely enough. They are human. I am too. I made a mistake, and always tried to fix it.
        I am not going to write themes any more because I felt I am insulted. I agree them themes have to be faultless, or XHTML if there is a code saying it is because a lot of people are going to use them, and we will be responsible for those themes that we wrote.
        However, I disagree that they applied the same process for everybody. I wrote three themes after that ripped theme, and they approved two of them after investigating very carefully, and asking me to fix all errors. The last thing about XHTML stuff made me angry. I fixed that too, but they approved other themes saying their docutype is XHTML, and having errors in it.
        I hope I could explain why I complained about them here. I didn't know that there are only 2 people checking themes. I thought there are more than 6 or 7 customizer, and they were sharing this approving process. I know, and trust some customizers such as IchBinn. I can accept that by the means of their pushing me to write errorless themes, I learned a lot of things. However, I was suspicious about if they were pushing other theme authors too. Then, recent themes were telling me NOT.
        I am sorry if I am seem to insult, or tell bad things to them. This is going to be my last complain because I think I tried to explain everything.