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PHPBB3 comparisons inaccurate?

Started by TestMonkey, December 13, 2007, 01:49:06 PM

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1MileCrash

Quote from: motumbo on December 14, 2007, 02:31:24 AM
If a feature isn't in the default installation of SMF it doesn't exist in it and the comparison is not inaccurate.  Mods suck, anyway.  Nothing but problems.

Ridiculus. Take into consideration that anyone with half a brain can do just about anything to SMF..It's way more expandable and changeable (mostly due to the template system) and that's why i use it.
The only thing php can't do is tell you how much milk is left in the fridge.



weightman

QuoteTake into consideration that anyone with half a brain can do just about anything to SMF..It's way more expandable and changeable (mostly due to the template system) and that's why i use it.

Agreed. I love the easily ability to customize SMF, and combined with backups and regular checks of the error logs, the problems are minimal compared to the reward. Plus, the SMF community has been extremely helpful in supporting the effort.

sk8agrrl

I used phpbb for years and decided to jump ship to SMF in the past week

I must admit I'm loving the ease of use with SMF in most things (tho i will also admit im being a little dim with adding groups of smileys effectively)

I never had any hackers screw things up for me with phpbb either so i cant fault their security - its just that things started to get too complex when you needed to go in and change code for certain mods and things - which for a non coder / technology illiterate like me was more than i could face.

Good luck to the phpbb3 - im sure i'll load it up and try it out but for now im sticking with SMF because it seems ive fallen in love with it <3
Is thick as pigs**t when it comes to this.

NeoThermic

Quote from: Tippmaster on December 15, 2007, 11:13:18 AM
Quote from: motumbo on December 14, 2007, 02:31:24 AM
If a feature isn't in the default installation of SMF it doesn't exist in it and the comparison is not inaccurate.  Mods suck, anyway.  Nothing but problems.

Ridiculus. Take into consideration that anyone with half a brain can do just about anything to SMF..It's way more expandable and changeable (mostly due to the template system) and that's why i use it.


It's not ridiculous. If we took modifications into account, then we could say 'yes' to everything on that list for phpBB as well. The line was drawn, and was a logical choice; default features only.

We're not trying to discredit SMF here, and has been noted by the SMF devs themselves, SMF 2 will be a better comparison in the future. We will also work with the SMF team to update the comparison page to be accurate for SMF 2 when it is released.

Even then, it'll be default features only. :)

NeoThermic

Gary

NeoThermic, I don't think that Tippmaster's comment was a comment on the list about not including any mentioning of Mods on your list. But rather, a comment about motumbo mods being nothing but problems for Themes.
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1MileCrash

Quote from: Gazmanafc on December 15, 2007, 04:19:19 PM
NeoThermic, I don't think that Tippmaster's comment was a comment on the list about not including any mentioning of Mods on your list. But rather, a comment about motumbo mods being nothing but problems for Themes.

Yes...and take this into account:

What's the difference between a mod in phpbb and a mod in smf? alot...in phpbb you're basically going to have to be php fluent and have a few hours to spare..

Installing a mod in phpBB takes longer than creating a mod in SMF.
The only thing php can't do is tell you how much milk is left in the fridge.



babjusi

I don''t think that you need to be php fluent to install a mod in a phpbb forum.  You need to add/edit manually some codes, that is all. More or less what you do with smf as well, when you apply a mod to a custom theme.

Anyway, I think that the best solution to apply a mod is through the plug in system, upload, activate and that is all she wrote.

Back to topic, I installed phpbb3 at my test site and I gotta say, it looked nice. It had some default features that I found very handy.


metallica48423

in some ways the manual approach is easier.  Its easier to manage files and keep tabs on things and update things for newer versions sometimes that way.

The package manager itself isn't always a one off solution to that.

Conversely, it does make things easier to a point, especially in time requirement

I guess its a matter of personal taste.

NeoThermic: thanks for the clarification -- i was wondering what the list was based on.  Thanks :)
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codenaught

Even from someone who is constantly hacking away at files and loves to code I still find the package manager to be an absolute blessing to have. I'm sure phpBB has that mod that does this being developed by someone or is already available and I won't criticize them for not including such a feature as they probably have their own reasons.

I do look forward to trying out phpBB 3. Back even when I was quite loyal to SMF I still loved to install all the scripts available to compare them, it was a fun little hobby. Sadly I haven't done that much lately, probably mainly due to lack of time at the moment. I hope to spend some time at some point to take a careful look at the gold product and the code behind it. I installed a later RC of it once, but didn't look at it very closely or for long.

It sure will be interesting to compare phpBB 3 to SMF 2. I still don't necessarily think phpBB 3 is better than SMF 1.1 in general terms because of the nature of how the two scripts are different. Different directions are approached in many ways and people have different tastes. Someone could say they like phpBB 2 more than SMF 2 for instance, it depends on the person. :)
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1MileCrash

The only thing php can't do is tell you how much milk is left in the fridge.



metallica48423

why so harsh?

We should be respectful of others... Making a choice to use phpbb does not make anyone any more or less smart..
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1MileCrash

Sorry but i just can't relate to that crazy form of decision making skills (or lack there of) i mean really, i'm all for friendly competition, but making a chart trying to push people into something is just asking for a harsh truth to be unveiled. 
The only thing php can't do is tell you how much milk is left in the fridge.



metallica48423

Yet when at least TWO of the phpBB staff are here and willing to correct any of the inaccuracies that have been aforementioned, that says absolutely nothing? 

I'm sorry Tippmaster i don't think this is the time or the place for the the SMF/phpBB argument to be had.  The comparison chart is a good marketing strategy overall if it is accurate.  See above statement again.

If its accurate, then theres no reason to have any problem with it IMO.  Is it something we'd do? most likely not, but even still, its none of our concern.

Please keep this topic friendly, Thanks.
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weightman

I took a look at the phpbb site, which I am assuming runs 3, and it just isn't as attractive as SMF. I really just don't like the look of it, but perhaps another theme would be nicer...

shadow82x

Many like it a few do not. As for me I think it looks great.
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JayBachatero

Quote from: Tippmaster on December 15, 2007, 08:44:57 PM
Sorry but i just can't relate to that crazy form of decision making skills (or lack there of) i mean really, i'm all for friendly competition, but making a chart trying to push people into something is just asking for a harsh truth to be unveiled. 
Tipp like BlackMage said this is not the place to come with the phpBB vs SMF stuff.  I suggest that you read carefully before making such comments.  The guys from phpBB came over here to get the list more accurate.  You can't blame them for missing some features.  Us here at SMF use it everyday and know then ins and outs of SMF.  It's the same as if we were doing a comparison of SMF, phpBB and the others.  We would be missing things since we don't know everything about other softwares.

We don't need such harsh comments when we are having a civilized conversation here like adults.
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weightman

#76
QuoteMany like it a few do not. As for me I think it looks great.

Sure, to each his own. I guess its not too bad, but its not using the width available on my monitor. I don't like that.  I hate their banner, of course that would be changed, but still- its really ugly IMHO. I also don't like the pink forum rules bar at all. I don't like the member info in posts on the right compared to the left in SMF. Etc

Just my personal taste, I don't like the look and feel of phpbb, so I guess I just wanted to point out that while features are important to me and I love SMF's features and easier mod capability in most cases, there are other strengths as well to SMF.

Cheers

motumbo

Quote from: Daniel15 on December 14, 2007, 12:46:44 AM
To the phpBB team: Nice work! phpBB 3 is definitely a significant improvement over phpBB 2. To be honest, I like phpBB3 more than vBulletin :)

I think the phpBB3 team does deserve congratulations for what they've accomplished.  Especially when compared to phpBB2 which had deficiencies in every possible area.

Quote from: BlackMage on December 14, 2007, 12:57:34 AM
Thats one thing that gets me about things these days... fanboyism -- not that i am accusing anyone of this i certainly am not... Fanboyism tends to run very rampant sometimes and causes huge rifts between generally complacent groups of people.  With that comes the opinions shoved down people's throats...

Somebody called me a phpBB fanboy in another thread.  I don't recall who...

Anyway, there is no shortage of "fanboyism" here on Simplemachines.  There is nothing wrong with taking pride in something you've worked on or a forum system you really like.  There is nothing wrong with admitting the competition has done something good or, at the very least, better than they've done in the past.

Quote from: Grudge on December 14, 2007, 03:35:58 AM
motumbo,

I don't disagree with your statement entirely. I think feature wise SMF 1.1.4 is actually more than adequate for the average forum and of course 2.0 will, feature wise, be a dramatic change for SMF.

I agree.  However, if your goal is to appeal to a broad audience, more features will help you do that.  Since SMF is mostly a voluntary project, I can only assume that the developers want to put out a good product and have it widely used.  If I was a songwriter, I would be happier if I sold 5 million albums than if I sold 50,000.

I tried using a mod once and it was not a pleasant experience.  The people with the most knowledge of SMF are probably the developers and not the mod writers.  Plus, mod writers don't know necessarily what is coming in the future and how it will affect their mods.  That's why I don't like mods.

Quote from: Grudge on December 14, 2007, 03:35:58 AM
I think SMF's currently single biggest problem is that our HTML/CSS is now extremely out of date and needs to be addressed - much more than the current feature set. Fortunately this is being worked on for SMF 2.0 but I will admit not as quickly as one might like. Fortunately we've also been rationalising the templates in 2.0 to make that job easier.

I agree with this most of all.  Personally, features like Karma, Youtube video embedding, and other features are meaningless to me.  I wouldn't be upset if they are there because you never know when you will use something.  My biggest issue with SMF is the tabled layout. 

Quote from: Grudge on December 14, 2007, 03:35:58 AM
All in all I'm impressed with the phpBB3 release and it's not fair to tarnish the security reputation of phpBB3 with that of phpBB2 as it's an entirely different product and team. Let's wish them all the best in the future and hope that the constant "nudging" ahead of our two products result in the constant improvement of both products and hence is good for the forum community as a whole.

Absolutely.  Competition drives innovation (just ask Microsoft and Firefox).  Good competition can end up making all competitors better than they would otherwise be.

Quote from: akabugeyes on December 14, 2007, 09:44:26 PM

Once again, congratulations, and I wish you luck. Certainly I personally hope we don't see too many SMF users converting over to phpBB 3 (with SMF 2.0 coming around, hopefully for us this will be enough to have some people excited enough for us to not jump the gun ;))

Before stopping at the simplemachines site I did a search for SMF over on the phpBB site and did notice there were a few people converting.  I expect that this trend will continue for a while.  But, maybe if there was less secrecy about what is coming in SMF2 people might be willing to wait before jumping ship. 

Quote from: Tippmaster on December 15, 2007, 11:13:18 AM
Quote from: motumbo on December 14, 2007, 02:31:24 AM
If a feature isn't in the default installation of SMF it doesn't exist in it and the comparison is not inaccurate.  Mods suck, anyway.  Nothing but problems.

Ridiculus. Take into consideration that anyone with half a brain can do just about anything to SMF..It's way more expandable and changeable (mostly due to the template system) and that's why i use it.

Sure.  Being able to do something and being able to do it easily are two different things.  I made my SMF theme look pretty much the way I wanted it to look and made several other changes.  But due to the tabled layout and duplicate code in multiple places, it was a lot of work--a lot more than it should have been. 

No joke:  I've found essentially duplicate code in two different places in SMF.  That's just not good coding practice.

motumbo

Quote from: weightman on December 16, 2007, 01:30:45 AM
I don't like the member info in posts on the right compared to the left in SMF. Etc

My understanding is that a simple change to the CSS to float it left will change it to be on the left.  (I don't like it on the right, either.)  That's the advantage of a CSS-based layout versus a tabled layout.


metallica48423

motumbo, like has been said, we don't disagree with what you are pointing out, just like in the other thread, how you worded the post -- it came out very rough i guess would be the way to put it. Sometimes putting your point across works better if its worded in a way thats not going to rub people wrong -- i admit that i was rubbed wrong by your post in the now locked why or why not topic.  Just be respectful and you'll find that the team DOES listen to people.  Otherwise, we wouldn't be here.

I think what we're seeing is a difference in what people see as the direction the software is going.  I still personally feel that a small, efficient, secure, and functional base is what SMF is meant to be.  I personally want to see the features that will used most that fit the idealism of what a forum software does without being considered too over the top.  To be perfectly honest the karma and calendar systems that are default do not fit that in my view.  But at this point it is sort of useless to remove code that is already in place :P

I don't doubt fanboyism runs rampant here,  i still don't like it :P I use SMF becuase its the best solution for my needs AND i have the edge of having a generally greater knowledge of things to do with it.  Does that make phpbb useless? no.  Does it make it useless to my needs? yes. Does that make phpbb suck? not a bit.

I had something else to say but it is too late for me to remember *yawns*
Justin O'Leary
Ex-Project Manager
Ex-Lead Support Specialist

QuoteMicrosoft wants us to "Imagine life without walls"...
I say, "If there are no walls, who needs Windows?"


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