PHPBB3 comparisons inaccurate?

[Highway of Life]

Code Select Expand

Group-based Memberlist Display
Admin > Membergroups > [MEMBERGROUP]

Erm, little different, probably could use some additional clarity as well... sometimes its hard to compact a complete feature description into a small line of text.
In phpBB3, you can click on a group and it will show you all the users in that group in the memberlist on the user-facing side. i.e. not only in the Admin panel.

The same is in under ADMIN > Member Groups > It'll show you a hyperlinked number, you click on that, there's your grouped members. 

On the user facing side? I know you can do that in the admin panel in both pieces of software, but how do you get there if you're not an admin?

Code Select Expand

Post Details
What sort of details?

Shows IP for the Poster, will also show Other users posting from this IP, IP addresses this user has posted from, and a Whois Lookup on each IP. You can also change the Post Author or edit the post (if permissions allow) through the post details.

We actually have that information, though it's expanded considerably.  You can click on an IP address at the lower right of each post and it'll show the majority of that information, as well as any error messages (actual errors or ban logs), plus other users possibly in the same range.  The "Change Post Author" thing isn't on SMF.

There's also editing a post via AJAX (no page reloads needed) or actual edits.

Okay, sounds about the same, I'll add it. Thanks for the clarification.
For reference, there is a lot of information that is displayed there depending on your options, but it's hard to sum it all up into one description.

Gazmanafc, thanks so much for the additional info, I'll have to look through the rest later, I need a few days of sleep and have a lot of actual work work (not volunteer work) that I need to catch up on.

..

It means that a security professional who gets paid to test for exploits...

I figured that already but who exactly is that professional? - shy of naming?

I named them in my post above.
And no, we're not shy of naming them, as they have quite a reputation in the Security Industry.

A paid professional audit can vary quite widely which can mean the cost/detail/effectiveness/quality of the audit can vary.

It can be done by a human and/or computer
Analyzing exploits just on the source (with option to combine with known bugs issues that may occur with certain versions of PHP and/or mysql). eg php4.4.1 may have a specific issue with php function 'x' that could be exploited.
The company employed
The level/experience of the security professional
The time alotted

It was done on multiple levels, including computer analysis, but the final high-level code audit came through a line-by-line code audit by a human. Stefan Esser himself.

It is also usually customary to stamp the auditors information when referring to a paid audit with a date / version
eg
Performed by PaidSecurityAudit Corp. 28-10-2007 3.0RC2

OH? and you would know?
However, this was done in both the RC6 and RC7 release announcements, you can view them in the Announcements forum on hxxp:phpbb.com [nonactive] if you wish. It's also in the press releases.

Re: BlackMage comments and directed towards NeoThermic
Indeed, the last thing I would ever seek to do (for lack of a better word) cause a flame war about the competition.

My comments so far in this topic are entirely based on personal experience over many years and many installations. (and as such I would feel justified in airing them). [I would also make clear, the inaccuracy of the comparison list did NOT bore out my comments].

On this side, it did feel like you were trying to start a flame war. No harm done though, I realise I'm posting on YOUR board.

If final PHPBB3 resolves all the fundamental issues with previous RC releases then fair do.
But trust is easy to lose, almost impossible to win back.

Unfortunately, this does seem to be the case. But sometimes people look at half the side of an issue, all they see is a Security Exploit, and they never go beyond that to see what the entity did to address the issue and concern. And in many cases, some users see something someone posted on a board or blog post (i.e. "I has the script that will hack into the software") and believe it, without verifying if the report is true or false, and yet even this can destroy a reputation.
The funny thing, is that phpBB actually fixed the vulnerability before it came widespread, but it became widespread because people didn't upgrade.
This is fixed now in newer versions and is why software must "Call home", because if there is an urgent security fix, people need to download it right away, whether it be your Operating System: Windows XP, a browser, such as IE6, or a forum software, such as phpBB2. All three of these, ironically, are highly targeted. Why? because they own the market in their realm. I run on Mac OS X, and we don't have anywhere near the security exploits that Windows Software does. The main reason being that Windows is used by the majority of the market. Hackers don't target something that is not as widely used.
( Besides the fact that OS X really is more secure. hehe)

Highway of life, thanks for posting. Its good to read all this stuff to be able to see a good comparison in some features. As always, competition is good. And from the looks of it, you guys have something good going on with this release. Congrats, and good luck in the future. Look out for SMF 2.0.

We look forward to it. Thanks for the kind words.

Okay, I've typed up a storm tonight and need to get something done.
Thanks for the feedback and wonderful discussions.

[metallica48423]

Thanks for the kind words.
Our goal is certainly not to make the list an exclusionary list, which is why I'm here, so I'm certainly open to any corrections you guys have about it.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if we (the team) felt that way, but rather portraying what i've seen of this thread. Maybe there has been a mix up but it speaks volumes about phpbb that you're willing to look at it seriously

I've not personally seen the chart and don't have any personal comments as well.  And i will also admit that i've had problems with phpbb in the past, including security but, so what?  It happened a long time ago and it was corrected... personally i dislike that phpbb gets negativity over something that they handled like any other software developer -- fixed it.

I do appreciate the friendly discussion as well.  It is nice to know that both teams can coexist in a friendly manner.  I'd like to see corporations try it.  Actually, i'd like to see something on this level happen with our common competitors as well. Unfortunately I don't actually think either are going to ever happen

* BlackMage heats up the popcorn . 

Anyways, definitely congrats on the phpbb3 release.  I hope its the start of a lot of good things to come

[Highway of Life]

What the heck, one last?

Highway of life,

You have acquitted yourself well. I stand by my earlier statement that competition is good and all will benefit as a result of it. Still, I think a comparison is really only valid between SMF2 and phpbb 3 since SMF 2 is due out, most likely, in the next couple/few months. Then, a team effort to develop a feature comparison listing would be very cool. And, both can implement/copy the best of each other's work. And the cycle of development continues. Even preferable to that, would be a merging of both projects as I am sure both communities have things to offer.

Still, I am loyal to SMF as I feel it has been extremely supportive to my efforts and the software is more intuitive than the phpbb 2 series I used to run. But, I am not closed minded and will do some testing of phpbb 3.

Thanks for posting. It might be time to retire.

Cool, I like that idea.

For now, we'll have to compare with 1.1 since it is the released version, but as soon as 2.0 comes out, I would be more than happy to collaborate with an SMF representative to get a list back and fourth, and update our comparison with the latest. We trying to keep with stable releases in our comparison, and will try and keep it updated as best as we can.
We'll see how that goes. ::laughs::

[Gary]

Gazmanafc, thanks so much for the additional info, I’ll have to look through the rest later, I need a few days of sleep and have a lot of actual work work (not volunteer work) that I need to catch up on.

Heheh. I seriously cant blame you. What with all the mod approving and support you'll be doing for phpBB 3 now. I'm kinda the same right now as it's 4am where I am right now, and I also have to approve themes and support for SMF. 

Anyways congrats on the release of phpBB 3 and I wish you good luck with it and future versions.

[weightman]

For now, we'll have to compare with 1.1 since it is the released version, but as soon as 2.0 comes out, I would be more than happy to collaborate with an SMF representative to get a list back and fourth, and update our comparison with the latest.

Very cool, a friendly, cooperative, if still competitive effort, between the two communtiies, would be impressive indeed- from both sides. Still, I think at the very least you should compare to SMF 1.14, the latest public release rather than 1.1. Or do you mean 1.1x? Or maybe I am wrong. I am not a developer and thats why I posted in the thread, to give another, maybe more objective, peaceful viewpoint.

Cheers

[Gary]

^ It does say 1.1.4 on the page

[Fiery]

Highway of life,

Thank you for your comments.  Good luck to all of you over at phpbb

[shaunah]

Oh?  Do you know something?  Please share.  If there are exploits for phpBB3, I would like to know.  I chose forums based on facts - not on fear mongering.

SMF: Security is a top priority, thats why we are taking our time to ensure SMF 2.0 is stable.

And just how much time do you think it took for phpBB3 to get released?

Why, then, are you running the latest version of SMF?  Why isn't 1.1.0 good enough for you?  If the only problems people ever experience with SMF are due to compromised shared hosts (which SMF can't do anything about, anyway), isn't upgrading just a waste of your time?

[TestMonkey]

Alot of feedback sinse earlier..
For clairity: I never intended to start this thread for the purpose to flame phpbb itself just the inacuracies and what appeared to be someone posting very inacurate information which seemed no body bothered to attempt to verify any of the information from whatever sources they came from..
That is what I took exception to not phpbb3 itself just someone providing -mis-information- due to being lazy or lack of time or not knowing any better(take your pick).

I actually do have alot of respect for phpbb in general that is where I started learning php.. but then I found SMF and it just suites my needs better for the most part. But I track and watch the progress of many forums, one of which is punbb if they actually get their next releases in order it should be very nice as well.

But I will call a spade a spade no matter what my current forum is that I may have installed that's not where I was coming from  , it is not my fault if others take it out of context there is very little I can do about that  .

Thank you to everyone who responded with good information and attitudes to provide accurate information on everything.

[Daniel15]

To the phpBB team: Nice work! phpBB 3 is definitely a significant improvement over phpBB 2. To be honest, I like phpBB3 more than vBulletin

If the phpBB Teams did not consider PHP a top priority, they would not have paid to have the External Security Audit performed by SektionEins. and Stefan Esser, who happens to be one of the foremost experts on PHP Security.

Indeed, Stefan Esser started the Hardened-PHP project and writes the Suhosin PHP extension and patch

[JayBachatero]

To the phpBB team: Nice work! phpBB 3 is definitely a significant improvement over phpBB 2. To be honest, I like phpBB3 more than vBulletin

I agree with you there.  I actually started with phpBB and came to SMF for the calendar feature .

[metallica48423]

I chose forums based on facts - not on fear mongering.

Very wise choice, though i don't feel that was the intention in Karl's post. 

Thats one thing that gets me about things these days... fanboyism -- not that i am accusing anyone of this i certainly am not... Fanboyism tends to run very rampant sometimes and causes huge rifts between generally complacent groups of people.  With that comes the opinions shoved down people's throats... not a place to want to be... which is why i made my comment above, that nothing has been done to warrant such, and that i wouldn't see it here

I have ZERO doubt that security is a priority all around.  If phpbb did not care of security they would not have hired the security firm to audit the software.  A move which i am sure will undoubtedly drastically improve the security of the software.

Security itself is not the sole reason for upgrades.  There are also bugfixes to take into account.  Though generally these should be minimized by the time a stable software is released thats not always the case as some developers rush things out the door, its been that way in the industry from the beginning and will continue to be.  This is a trend i'm sure both SMF and PHPBB look to reduce from the get go.

That said, i'd like for this thread to remain respectful for all sides as i am aware of a number of phpbb community members here tonight (and we welcome you ).  I'd appreciate not nitpicking and taking shots from either side as this has been a generally very postitive topic and one of the few times when communities collide and things get discussed.  Lets keep it a friendly contact, no?

[shaunah]

That said, i'd like for this thread to remain respectful for all sides as i am aware of a number of phpbb community members here tonight (and we welcome you ).  I'd appreciate not nitpicking and taking shots from either side as this has been a generally very postitive topic and one of the few times when communities collide and things get discussed.  Lets keep it a friendly contact, no?

Fair enough.  I apologize for my part in taking shots.

Also, thanks for the welcome

[metallica48423]

So what's your take on phpbb3/SMF?

As to which I favor, that should be obvious   I think phpbb has come a long way.  Sure its been a long time coming and theres been bumps in the road but in my view its about what you do about getting knocked down, and how hard you work at getting back up, that defines you in the long run.  thats how i feel anyways.

[motumbo]

Was just browsing thru the phpbb3 site as it just went gold and just by chance hit their comparison of features link: http://www.phpbb.com/about/features/compare.php

And they seem to suggest many things that SMF doesn't do which seems to be very incorrect in area's, and some things are done thru plugins in SMF.

Just found it odd that they would do something as seemingly inacurate as that.

If a feature isn't in the default installation of SMF it doesn't exist in it and the comparison is not inaccurate.  Mods suck, anyway.  Nothing but problems.

It looks like phpBB3 final just came out.  It's feature rich and is a CSS-based layout.  SMF has a lot of catching up to do.

[Grudge]

motumbo,

I don't disagree with your statement entirely. I think feature wise SMF 1.1.4 is actually more than adequate for the average forum and of course 2.0 will, feature wise, be a dramatic change for SMF. I don't really see the difference in most of the features in SMF and phpBB3 as a problem for 95% of forum admins as, in general, as features become less and less implemented in the competition it also means they are less and less used (i.e. everyone has banning, not everyone has a warning system).

I think SMF's currently single biggest problem is that our HTML/CSS is now extremely out of date and needs to be addressed - much more than the current feature set. Fortunately this is being worked on for SMF 2.0 but I will admit not as quickly as one might like. Fortunately we've also been rationalising the templates in 2.0 to make that job easier.

All in all I'm impressed with the phpBB3 release and it's not fair to tarnish the security reputation of phpBB3 with that of phpBB2 as it's an entirely different product and team. Let's wish them all the best in the future and hope that the constant "nudging" ahead of our two products result in the constant improvement of both products and hence is good for the forum community as a whole.

[Sarge]

Feature	phpBB3	SMF
Database (DBMS) Backups:	Yes	-

Hmmm? SMF does have a database backup feature: Admin > Forum Maintenance > Backup Database section.

[Ben_S]

Congratulations to the phpBB boys (and girls?) on the release.

[codenaught]

Congratulations on the release, the phpBB Group! I was a phpBB user back around the early 2.0 releases. I think there is not much denying 2.0 has been quite outdated in terms of features compared with what is available today, but it looks like 3.0 clearly puts your right back in the spot. It is very nice to see good relationships building between competing software teams. My take is we both want to provide something for the community that is free of charge. We both have our own ideas and loyalties, but heck if someone is in love with phpBB 3, who am I to complain? We all have different tastes and I think the competition only serves for the best as it provides a demand to continue to improve on your own software to keep users and get new ones.

It would be nice if I could build a friendship with some of the people behind phpBB and other internet scripts. I can help them, they can help me. We likely have similar interests in any case.

I generally do not like first party comparison lists. It is very hard to not be partially biased. You didn't do an awful job by any means with this one, but I do see certain features that do seem like it would fit in adding that phpBB 3 does not have that other forum scripts do in fact have (One that comes to mind is Quick Reply). Maybe you will work on that as you collect more and more information of the other scripts.

Once again, congratulations, and I wish you luck. Certainly I personally hope we don't see too many SMF users converting over to phpBB 3 (with SMF 2.0 coming around, hopefully for us this will be enough to have some people excited enough for us to not jump the gun )

On a more humorous note:

SMF 2.0 > phpBB 3

[Pause]

Congratulations to phpBB Group on phpBB3