SMF should buy Dilber MC to make it the smf default theme

[Sincere]

Please everyone check this final request here
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=237655.0



hello SMF development team: 

Joe123 has convinced me here that he is as much a fervent enthusiast of Dilber MC as I am.


I believe we are not the only two guys around who believe Dilber MC is a very decent theme, or let me say, the best smf theme ever.

I thus would strongly suggest that SMF buy Dilber MC from Harzem to make it the default smf theme.

Why?  Simply because tens of millions of the young generation we are part of, lived all of their lives with almost everything imposed upon us. We thus still react negatively when we see anything being imposed on us, even if it is the color of a website we use...

Any little choice we are given makes us feel more freedom, and we enjoy it, even if this was something as small as the color of a board we use.

Look here please:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/

Ask yourself:
why is Dilber MC the most popular theme ?
Does not this mean to you that the majority of webmasters would prefer a multi-color theme to the strict dark blue of smf default theme ?
You do respect your public's desires, right? What does it mean to you to see Dilber MC as the most popular theme ever? Does not it mean that the smf public prefers that theme to any other theme ?


To be very honest with you, I do admit that deep inside me I would regret to see any default installation of SMF looks like my site with the great Dilber MC theme.

I thus would have an interest in SMF not accepting my suggestion, as this would allow my site to stand out of the crowd.

However, I say to myself: if SMF becomes more attractive, more minds would be on board, there will be more people converting from the $160 vbulletin to the free smf, and the final success would benefit everyone including me and my board.

I am confident there will be tens of users buying charter membership when smf default theme gives so many beautiful color choices. Why impose the dark blue on everyone?



Fellow webmasters,

Now that you have read my post here, please do not just close this window!

Please react. You have the right to call my suggestion rubbish and should be ignored. But do react. Express yourself. Say what you think.

[Gary]

I thus would strongly suggest that SMF buy Dilber MC from Harzem to make it the default smf theme.

Hmm..... Thats probably never gonna happen.

I thus would have an interest in SMF not accepting my suggestion, as this would allow my site to stand out of the crowd.

Okay.

[joe123]

A little background on why I picked SMF.

I was and still am new to Forums.   When I looked around for a forum software to use, the first thing I considered before any features was how good it looked.

If a forum software looked terrible, I didn't care how many features it had.

SMF is rich full of features but has a pretty ugly default interface in my opinion.    The only reason I ended up with SMF was because of Dilber Theme.   The popularity of Dilber's Theme is evident by it's popularity.

The SMF team can choose to go along with what theme they prefer, or what theme users prefer.   The SMF team can easily take a poll from the SMF user base if they also wanted to gauge the popularity of the theme.

Obviously the choice is what the SMF team thinks is the best theme, but more obvious will be the effort or the lack of effort I should say, why SMF believes it is right and thousands are wrong.

Time will tell...

[Sincere]

I thus would strongly suggest that SMF buy Dilber MC from Harzem to make it the default smf theme.

Hmm..... Thats probably never gonna happen.

I thus would have an interest in SMF not accepting my suggestion, as this would allow my site to stand out of the crowd.

Okay.

Gazmanafc

winrules has kindly taken the time to explain how the choice of a default theme is made.

I am thus reformulating now my request:

Can the default theme of smf in smf2.0 be a multi-color ? one where anyone (even guests) can simply click once a little colored bar of a set of preset colors to use a colored theme that corresponds to his desires?

[Orstio]

Is it really that difficult to install a third party theme?

In reality, I would think that having the ability to install third party themes that surpass the capabilities of the default, stock themes that come with the software is a bonus, not a deterrant.

What kind of image would we be giving to the general public if we were to buy out every theme or mod that made SMF better than the stock installation? 

Frankly, I want to see more themes that out-perform our defaults.  I want to see third party communities thriving on building onto the foundation of SMF that we create.

I'd hate to see us acquire everything that gets built on that foundation.  Third parties need to grow on this foundation.  That's how communities grow.

[Eliana Tamerin]

There is a whole topic about colored variations of the default theme. It's sticked in the Themes forum, but a direct link is here. You could certainly encourage that to be made more public, but I doubt SMF is going to agree with your request to get Dilber MC made the default theme.

Why?

1. Dilber MC isn't designed by SMF. Even if they buy the rights and make it the default theme, it's still not their creation. Everything from the classic YABB SE port theme, to Babylon and the new Core theme have been made entirely by the SMF developer and customization teams. Why should they have to adhere to some other designers vision of what the theme should evolve to be? If the theme is their own, they do not have to be restrained as such.

2. Dilber MC may be the most downloaded theme, but that certainly doesn't mean it's the best. Take Aa New Damage for example. The most egregious error I see with that theme is the clear lack of an easy notification for new Personal Messages. The Babylon theme had a notification in the header. The Core theme has notification in the menu bar. Aa New Damage has neither, and yet it's the second most downloaded theme. I, personally, don't feel that a theme which doesn't provide the basic features of SMF (like displaying the news or the number of new PMs someone has) should be a theme used at all, much less be a popular theme.

3. I've never personally used Dilber MC because I dislike its design. It's clunky and awkward, IMO, and doesn't fit with SMF's flow and style. While the default theme, to us, seems overused and too simplistic, it's very professional yet flexible for sites that don't often see anything outside of phpBB's Sub_______ themes. Same goes for the Babylon theme.

4. Freedom? SMF gives you a range of freedoms to easily import your own themes. There are literally hundreds of themes to choose from on the Theme site, and SMF links easily to the 3 newest themes, plus the featured theme, and a random theme, all from the Themes and Layout area on the Admin CP. I've never seen any software, whether it be forum, CMS, blog or otherwise, allow its users to access customized content directly from within its control panel. Why should you be complaining about freedom when SMF virtually allows you to (on an ideal server) add and modify how your forum runs without even touching an FTP program after its installed. You can add themes, add mods, modify files, all from within the control panel. There aren't many softwares that allow you to do all that, and are free.

5. You asked for it. I think this request is childish and quite improper. Think about it, why would any company or organization allow itself to be forced, by its customers, to adopt a new style or appearance, even if those customers had been using it privately as the default appearance? Even if millions of users started to use a different icon for Firefox, do you think Mozilla would change the default icon? Why should they? They probably spent thousands of dollars getting that logo designed. And while the SMF teams haven't spent any money, they've spent thousands of hours in effort trying to design their own themes. Are you to say that Bloc should abandon his weeks of work on the new semantic theme simply because you think Dilber MC is better?

I think this would be more suitable if you made suggestions for the new SMF 2.0 default theme, such as what you did in your latest post. Instead of forcing a pre-made theme onto the SMF community, tell the designers why you like Dilber MC and what elements of it should find their way into the next default theme. That way, even though you'll never get Dilber MC as the default theme, you might get the kind of effect you are looking for instead.

[Sincere]

Is it really that difficult to install a third party theme?

none at all.

the problem is reworking on every future mod to work with your additional themes......

[Deaks]

There is a whole topic about colored variations of the default theme. It's sticked in the Themes forum, but a direct link is here. You could certainly encourage that to be made more public, but I doubt SMF is going to agree with your request to get Dilber MC made the default theme.

Why?

1. Dilber MC isn't designed by SMF. Even if they buy the rights and make it the default theme, it's still not their creation. Everything from the classic YABB SE port theme, to Babylon and the new Core theme have been made entirely by the SMF developer and customization teams. Why should they have to adhere to some other designers vision of what the theme should evolve to be? If the theme is their own, they do not have to be restrained as such.

2. Dilber MC may be the most downloaded theme, but that certainly doesn't mean it's the best. Take Aa New Damage for example. The most egregious error I see with that theme is the clear lack of an easy notification for new Personal Messages. The Babylon theme had a notification in the header. The Core theme has notification in the menu bar. Aa New Damage has neither, and yet it's the second most downloaded theme. I, personally, don't feel that a theme which doesn't provide the basic features of SMF (like displaying the news or the number of new PMs someone has) should be a theme used at all, much less be a popular theme.

3. I've never personally used Dilber MC because I dislike its design. It's clunky and awkward, IMO, and doesn't fit with SMF's flow and style. While the default theme, to us, seems overused and too simplistic, it's very professional yet flexible for sites that don't often see anything outside of phpBB's Sub_______ themes. Same goes for the Babylon theme.

4. Freedom? SMF gives you a range of freedoms to easily import your own themes. There are literally hundreds of themes to choose from on the Theme site, and SMF links easily to the 3 newest themes, plus the featured theme, and a random theme, all from the Themes and Layout area on the Admin CP. I've never seen any software, whether it be forum, CMS, blog or otherwise, allow its users to access customized content directly from within its control panel. Why should you be complaining about freedom when SMF virtually allows you to (on an ideal server) add and modify how your forum runs without even touching an FTP program after its installed. You can add themes, add mods, modify files, all from within the control panel. There aren't many softwares that allow you to do all that, and are free.

5. You asked for it. I think this request is childish and quite improper. Think about it, why would any company or organization allow itself to be forced, by its customers, to adopt a new style or appearance, even if those customers had been using it privately as the default appearance? Even if millions of users started to use a different icon for Firefox, do you think Mozilla would change the default icon? Why should they? They probably spent thousands of dollars getting that logo designed. And while the SMF teams haven't spent any money, they've spent thousands of hours in effort trying to design their own themes. Are you to say that Bloc should abandon his weeks of work on the new semantic theme simply because you think Dilber MC is better?

I think this would be more suitable if you made suggestions for the new SMF 2.0 default theme, such as what you did in your latest post. Instead of forcing a pre-made theme onto the SMF community, tell the designers why you like Dilber MC and what elements of it should find their way into the next default theme. That way, even though you'll never get Dilber MC as the default theme, you might get the kind of effect you are looking for instead.

OMG my thoughts exactly wanna marry me and elope

Seriously though well said i wish i could put it so well   I honestly would stop using smf if dilber came as default

[Eliana Tamerin]

Is it really that difficult to install a third party theme?

none at all.

the problem is reworking on every future mod to work with your additional themes......

Have you not seen the efforts put forth by the dev team on SMF 2.0? Try installing a mod on 2.0, and you'll be presented with options to install it onto your other themes. If it fails, you can open up a dialogue to manually edit the codes in question right then and there. You may have to manually tweak some themes, but for the most part, mods should integrate pretty nicely into the themes.

OMG my thoughts exactly wanna marry me and elope

Seriously though well said i wish i could put it so well   I honestly would stop using smf if dilber came as default

LOL, maybe not. But thanks.

Yes, Dilber MC would definitely deter me from visiting this site too often if it was default here, especially.

[Deaks]

LOL, maybe not. But thanks.

Yes, Dilber MC would definitely deter me from visiting this site too often if it was default here, especially.

glad it was a joke then ... now im off to cry

I am with most people who dont like dilber, yes its original however there are many more original themes out there that frankly are better looking.

[Sincere]

There is a whole topic about colored variations of the default theme. It's sticked in the Themes forum, but a direct link is here.

none of those themes seem to be compatible with smf2.0

[Eliana Tamerin]

And the title of the thread is what? Default Theme Color Variations 1.1

The default theme for 2.0 hasn't been finished yet. Which is why I suggested you make suggestions for that theme, and not for SMF buying up Dilber MC and making that the default. When it's finished, there may be some color variations made for it.

In any case, all of those are just image and CSS changes, none of them actually change any files around. A little reworking, and you'd be able to easily integrate those into 2.0.

[christicehurst]

Whil;e IO understand this thread and we all know the problems of SMF's looks. This won't get done because talking to the team like talking to a brick wall. They want to do their own thing. If people don't like it, then that's bad luck.

[Sincere]

Whil;e IO understand this thread and we all know the problems of SMF's looks. This won't get done because talking to the team like talking to a brick wall. They want to do their own thing. If people don't like it, then that's bad luck.

and now Eliana would call your post "childish" too

[Eliana Tamerin]

Go right ahead. Care to give me some reasons, though? Common courtesy, I gave you reasons, you give me some.

[bloc]

Its a valid request, but it just doesn't add up properly. Its been downloaded 79k on the themesite, in comparison the next 5-6 themes on the "most downloaded list", including such diverse themes as AA New Damage and PnPn also been dl 20-30k each (a bit misleading since some have been around a long time, others not - even DilbertMC is "old") and in sum more than Dilbert alone....That just shows that people seek different things,  and they pick the seemingly best ones, therefore you got the cluster of just these themes in top 10.

But why is Dilbert so much dl? I will say its because its adding a few key items to a normal SMF theme, its nothing new in terms of template changes, its all in the colors and use of gradients. It seems very polished and prob have a look more akin to todays websites than the default theme. But default isn't built to be the most extravagant theme ever,  rather to be unique enough, versatile and suit any kind of community SMF will be used for.This is a delicate balance, and all default themes have been through many reviews on the development stage, just to follow that "everyone can use it" goal.

So essentially Dilbert is already old news, the next default theme will need to be 2008 stuff - not 2004-5. AND it still will need to be versatile enough. VB haven't even changed its colors(SMF has changed shades of blue at least lol ) and IPB has also stuck to its trusted look. PhpBB has done something new and THAT is something to strive for, making something fresh ...another reason why just sticking in a well-known theme is wrong.

And yes, the team do reserve the right to create the default look, its only fair imho, but consider this: Core or current default theme was cheered on when it came out, so was babylon before that. But people tire of it, they see new custom themes and get the urge for a change, any change lol. and thats of course understandable. But it doesn't change the goals a default theme should have. We now have a rather well-known "look" to SMF and the next one will of course need to top that, using old ideas is then not a solution. Its a easy way out and SMF deserve better, which is also why we took the route to convert the templates. In itself a big task lol.

Whil;e IO understand this thread and we all know the problems of SMF's looks. This won't get done because talking to the team like talking to a brick wall. They want to do their own thing. If people don't like it, then that's bad luck.

You say a lot with this statement that really you need to come up with better explanations for. What SMF looks "problems" ? you don't like the looks or real errors? are you talking about default theme or this site's theme for example? Why is the team "stubborn"? Could it be, gee, that your request(s) have been turned down at some point, or do you imply *every* request is ignored? "bad luck"..tsk, you prob. missed the part where all the team is volunteers and only have one drive: to make SMF the best it can be. What do you think team member are then? I save you the thinking: they are former(and still btw ) community members, we all started as that and we all feel the community and how its responding to SMF development.

[Sincere]

Its a valid request, but it just doesn't add up properly.

thank you Bloc for having kindly explained what determines a good theme in a developer's eyes.

And thank you that you managed to do so, without calling our posts "childish" (Eliana, watch and learn)

[Sincere]

But default isn't built to be the most extravagant theme ever,  rather to be unique enough, versatile and suit any kind of community SMF will be used for.

hmmm. Bloc, to be fair to everyone, and make smf as democratic as possible, why don't you announce a poll where every member can give a note showing how important the basic features in the default theme are?

something like:

on a scale of 10, 10 being most important,

how important for you is it to have the ability to easily remove smflogo from the top right corner of your board?

how important for you is it to be able to give your members the ability to easily choose his or her preferred color for the board?

how important is it for you that the theme display some additional information such as the number of personal unread messages?

and let us see what the public votes for........

But such a vote would only have a meaning if the smf developpers pledge to follow the results of the vote..

[christicehurst]

I think the voting idea is good. I believe in the saying of "Listening to the people".

The main point I was making is that this request has no chance of gaining a leg to stand on.

[LiroyvH]

Hell no please.
Even though Dilber MC is nicely made, I totally hate it.

I dont think the default theme is pretty,
but I think it's better than Dilber MC theme.

I dont see the problem though,
just install the theme you want and make it your default theme...
If you have mods, you only have to add them once anyway... just a tiny bit of effort.

I think you are just too lazy to make mods and that's why you want Dilber MC as default


- Liroy