Topic: What can we do to help grow our 3PDs?

[Dannii]

I think a forge would greatly help 3PDs. Ideally, if SMF were to take a more simple FOSS licence, and the mods on the mod site were required to have one too, and if we had a forge, then having community support would be much easier. No longer would we be required to wait for mod authors to fix stuff, submit a patch, and have either the customise team rebuild the packages, or even let trusted community members do it too. At the moment there is little advantage for using sm.org's customisation site other than publicity.

[Night09]

So just duplicating what's already there?

Its not in the same sense as a normal mod.The thread for a single mod is sufficient but if a 3PD was present then a single thread would become extremely cluttered with old fixes for versions gone by like some of the mod threads now.Any mod thread I look at I read the last page first as I know the first 30 -40 are all old out of date fixes normally for older versions of SMF.

Also with a large 3PD the problems may span various different aspects of its design and code and a single thread would end up confusing.You have to look at it from a laymans terms and things you know and expect they may not.This site as it is can be murder if you have no idea of SMF and confusing if trying to find a thread buried 40 pages down because the author cannot or doesnt answer problems with his mod.

The idea is to make a sub heading say for a portal that incorperates 100 features. Then there can be a couple of threads inside for Install, Troubleshooting , Upgrading ect. Obviously the maker must agree but I doubt most would turn down the option to integrate some discussion here on SMF since the feedback could be valuable if they wanted to make a commercial version eventually.

[Orstio]

So, I'm going to summarize what's here so far:

• Better methods of supporting third party software on-site
• A 3PD forge
• OSI approved license
• Child boards for qualifying mods (determine definition for "qualifying")

Great stuff.

What else?

[Night09]

(determine definition for "qualifying")

To me something similar to this line.

A modification or major addition that doesnt simply manipulate the existing forum code but adds significant 3PD code and php files/scrips/sources  of its own to operate effectively.

The definition would need carefull consideration but something along that line as a starting point maybe.

[Dannii]

• Child boards for qualifying mods (determine definition for "qualifying")

This wouldn't necessarily be needed. There are other options. For example with a tagging system the topics could be anywhere (though hopefully just in a general mod support area) and then tracked by the forge. Then any mod can have more than one topic, not just the qualifying ones. The forge could even have something like the support topics page, and show a mod author any tagged topics they haven't replied to yet.

[karlbenson]

- Mod Contest
- Mods of the month (most other forum software seem to do it, why not smf).  Awards = recognition.
- Easier Transference of mods (some great new mods start, then fizzle out as the author loses interest of is a one man band)
- Sharing mods - multiple people allowed to edit/update/contribute to a mods. Mod teams (Competition is a wonderful thing)

[Orstio]

- Easier Transference of mods (some great new mods start, then fizzle out as the author loses interest of is a one man band)

I think that can be accomplished with licensing and the forge as previously mentioned.

- Sharing mods - multiple people allowed to edit/update/contribute to a mods. Mod teams (Competition is a wonderful thing)

That can definitely be accomplished with a forge.

Excellent stuff.  Keep them coming!

[Eliana Tamerin]

I just had a thought on this. A 3PD forge would make this easy to grab the most up-to-date packages of the mods, and do what many linux distributions are doing with their software: a make-your-own package. This could make installation of these large 3PDs much easier, to have them pre-packaged with SMF in a build-your-own style.

Think of selecting the latest build of SMF and being able to download it preinstalled with TP 0.9.8 or SMF Arcade? Would make mods even more consumer friendly.

[Orstio]

I just had a thought on this. A 3PD forge would make this easy to grab the most up-to-date packages of the mods, and do what many linux distributions are doing with their software: a make-your-own package. This could make installation of these large 3PDs much easier, to have them pre-packaged with SMF in a build-your-own style.

Think of selecting the latest build of SMF and being able to download it preinstalled with TP 0.9.8 or SMF Arcade? Would make mods even more consumer friendly.

The SMF license forbids that.  Do a search for SuperMod if you wish to find out why that will never happen.

[Eliana Tamerin]

No problem, then. I'll just sit back and keep watching here.

[Dannii]

Here's a bid idea, you have svn set up, so how about offering it to mod and theme authors? Or you could set it up on another server seeing as you've got the skills to do that.

[Orstio]

No problem, then. I'll just sit back and keep watching here.

Sorry, Eliana, I didn't mean to diminish your contributions to the topic.  That particular suggestion, though, strikes at one of the main reasons why the SMF license was created in the first place.

Here's a bid idea, you have svn set up, so how about offering it to mod and theme authors? Or you could set it up on another server seeing as you've got the skills to do that.

If we go the forge route, I believe that most forge software suites come with both cvs and svn utilities.

[bloc]

SVN is totally out imho, its should be used as an active development tool, not a showcase one. I reckon most mod auhtors do not want to risk being at the mercy of a central site going down, at least i am very opposed to that idea. At times when SMF site has been down, the Tinyortal site and others, has served as small news beacons during that, not hindering the slighest the development cycles and support there.

But getting big as some 3PD sites for Joomla for example is quite possible I guess, all it takes is people willing to take the plunge. How to make that easier I cannot say really, using the "supermod" way is def. out, as it presents as many problems as solutions, if not more  

I guess its also down to popularity and getting more serious third-party developers on board - there I think SMF still appeals more to the beginner/home crowd than the business crowd. Of course SMF is well beyond mature enough lol, its just that we  have a target audience that we serve very well - but its not the same as for example Joomla serves. PhpBB has the edge of being more known and longer in existance, same for the paid ones - which in themselves lend quite a bit of credibility just in the fact they cost money

We have the advantage of being free, have a powerful template system and a plug-it-in system for mods. Thats our main assets but again advancing 3PD needs something more I guess...Recent talks elsewhere about themes for example, being possibly in violation of SMF copyright, DOES not encourage others to bet on SMF. There we need to clarify and not speculate, NOT feeding the rumour that *everything* is in violation of copyright. Just the fact that mods/themes on 3p sites thrive already should be enough.

[Orstio]

SVN is totally out imho, its should be used as an active development tool, not a showcase one.

I could possibly be wrong, Bloc, but I think that was the point -- an active development environment rather than just a showcase.

All points well taken.  Your TinyPortal is actually the best example of a project that has flourished, and is a great example of SMF 3PD success.

[Eliana Tamerin]

No problem, then. I'll just sit back and keep watching here.

Sorry, Eliana, I didn't mean to diminish your contributions to the topic.  That particular suggestion, though, strikes at one of the main reasons why the SMF license was created in the first place.

No issue on my end, you're not diminishing my contributions. I'll keep posting ideas if I get them.

Besides, this was a good way for me to learn my history about SMF/YABB SE (and, YABB SM, I guess). You are certainly in the right to restrict that direction of development. I'd hate to see SMF form a version similar to PHPBB's Fully Modded package with loads upon loads of unneeded bloat and security issues galore. The reasonings are completely understandable.

[青山 素子]

If we wanted to start a forge (or perhaps a really rich community member wanted to?), we might be able to check with CollabNet about CollabNet EE for running it. It's a nice system and used by a lot of other sites (Sun's Java.net site uses it, tigris.org - home of Subversion - uses it, etc).

[Dannii]

As long as you don't use SourceForge's forge...
Drupal has a nice one, I don't know if it's available though.

[青山 素子]

As long as you don't use SourceForge's forge...

Funny enough, CollabNet bought SFEE from VA Software (Now Sourceforge, Inc). They are selling it alongside their solution, CollabNet Enterprise Edition. Having seen the code of the SF platform (via gForge), I would stay away. It requires unsafe PHP practices and the like.

Only downfall to CollabNet EE is that you need to configure JSP and the like. It operates wonderfully, however. If my personal dev server was a bit more powerful (it's a dual 500mHz P3), I'd probably run the free 5-user edition.

Drupal has a nice one, I don't know if it's available though.

I think it might be in the Drupal-Forge project at Savannah? It looks like it needs Drupal as a platform, not surprisingly.



However, we should go back on topic.

[Dragooon]

At the risk of being called idiot -
Does 3PD's also include site selling Paid Mods/Themes?

[青山 素子]

Does 3PD's also include site selling Paid Mods/Themes?

Yes.