Licensing Questions (Was: Re: SMF to attend O' Reilly's OSCON)

Started by therebel, July 10, 2008, 02:20:21 AM

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青山 素子

#21
Quote from: HecKel on July 10, 2008, 10:56:03 AM
Thus I had noticed, SMF license is incompatible with GPL license, so if I want to create some thing that will integrate SMF and other software I have to guarantee that I wont have any leak on license's compatibility.

Yep, but that's the situation in software licensing in general. Luckily, with most of the popular Open Source and open source licenses, the terms apply on distribution, so mingle the code all you want as long as you don't distribute it to others. (The SMF license is this way except for the copyright display requirement.

Note that GPLv3 has new terms that can prevent even that. Basically, in some cases, using a component licensed under the GPLv3 to create your page could be considered distribution, and you may need to make your full source available because of that. I suggest reading the actual license (or at least the FAQ for it) for a bit better and more accurate description.


Quote from: HecKel on July 10, 2008, 10:56:03 AM
But where is the problem? In SMF license? In other software license? In my opinion is not any problem BUT could create issues whom want to create something under some license.

The problem is in the intersection of the two licenses. If they have incompatible terms, then there will be a conflict. Unfortunately, despite being billed as a very open license, the GPL is very very restrictive (to developers).


Quote from: HecKel on July 10, 2008, 10:56:03 AM
And just to clarify and finish my message (in my AWFUL English :P), the critic was to the licenses itself and not to SMF. When I had the problem with GeSHi my other forum's moderators said that the problem was GPL license and not SMF license, SMF license don't restrict the other connected softwares but GPL does.

I know I'll be flamed, but that is basically it. The GPL is, in some ways, viral. Although there are "compatible" licenses, when code is licensed under these and then distributed in a GPL product, all the code together is under the GPL.

The problem then is that GPL code won't go into a license that has different restrictions (no redistribution or modified redistribution in the case of SMF) it doesn't want. In terms of GeSHi itself, the actual documentation specifically says you can't use it outside of GPL licensed code. That means that you'll need to ask permission to see if you can use it in an SMF mod if you want to distribute your mod. (If you just use it on your own and distribute without the GeSHi component, it shouldn't be a problem.) In fact, it might be worthwhile to find a highlighter that is under a less restrictive license and then you can distribute without a problem.


I personally discourage using the GPL for web-based software. Although it can apply, it does so in ways that you might not think that can cause issues (the SMF/Joomla bridge situation being one) since it is written with a view on traditional compiled software. There are many other licenses out there that are very good, many of them even OSI-approved if you care about that.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


Grudge

it should be noted that just because the license of SMF is not OSI approved it does not mean it is not open source. We have not submitted our licence to osi for approval so of course it is not approved - it does not however mean it is incompatible with the open source mantra.
I'm only a half geek really...

青山 素子

Quote from: Grudge on July 10, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
it should be noted that just because the license of SMF is not OSI approved it does not mean it is not open source. We have not submitted our licence to osi for approval so of course it is not approved - it does not however mean it is incompatible with the open source mantra.

Actually, we do fall on the "redistribution of some kind must be allowed" part currently. Of course, the OSI definition is a bit controversial in some areas and it isn't the sole definition of "open source".
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


karlbenson

Just a slight correction regarding Geshismf.

The main reason why the GeshiSMF mod was removed is due to the addendum at the bottom of its GPL license:
QuoteThis General Public License does not permit incorporating your program into proprietary programs.

So the issue isn't with the GPL, but the addendum.

therebel

Hi

@rickC:
It was indicated that smf could not be open source because of the problems of distribution, ubuntu and joomla are a very good example of open source with a distribution which puts nobody concerns, knowing that joomla as smf is a Web application.

QuoteLook as SMF's security history compared other forum software, I'd love to think we have the best Dev team on the net (& I feel we do) but a big part of keeping your forums safe is keeping them current.
Vbulletin/IPB/Mybb/FSB/Icebb and the security stops in smf because if we look at the themes or at mods, that becomes catastrophic in security.....

@Motoko-chan:
To stop a bridge because of a problem of license demonstrates well that the license smf is a true problem and that she cannot be likened to the open source. Moreover it is what what blocks the developpement of quite a lot of bridge with the current cms.....

@all:
When I answered the announcement of rickC, it was a reaction based on it made present smf to an open  source convention while we are still far from seeing smf as a Web open application source, of or my question of origin:

SMF plans it to cross under open license source? If not, its presence to OSCON is ambiguous, far from me the idea to question the license, but smf and open source do not make good housework for me.

it's my opinion  ;)

Greetings

青山 素子

#26
Quote from: therebel on July 10, 2008, 03:42:10 PM
@Motoko-chan:
To stop a bridge because of a problem of license demonstrates well that the license smf is a true problem and that she cannot be likened to the open source. Moreover it is what what blocks the developpement of quite a lot of bridge with the current cms.....

No, it means there is a problem with the intersection of the licenses. It does not indicate SMF is a problem. For instance, the BSD license offers no trouble with integration. The GPL with a permissive clause is no problem either. The problem lay in the way Joomla! saw the license terms.


Now, stop your trolling, MkC or you will be banned from here again. You are evading a ban and that is enough to justify it, so don't push your luck. Also, you aren't one to speak since you don't respect SMF's license anyway based on the altered copyright on your site. I suggest fixing that before we contact your hosting provider over it (we'd much prefer a nice fix over involving other parties).
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


therebel

Hi,
QuoteNo, it means there is a problem with the intersection of the licenses. It does not indicate SMF is a problem. For instance, the BSD license offers no trouble with integration. The GPL with a permissive clause is no problem either. The problem lay in the way Joomla! saw the license terms.

Oki, But smf being present in an open source convention, is that is planned a change of license towards the open source?

QuoteNow, stop your trolling, MkC or you will be banned from here again. You are evading a ban and that is enough to justify it, so don't push your luck. Also, you aren't one to speak since you don't respect SMF's license anyway based on the altered copyright on your site. I suggest fixing that before we contact your hosting provider over it (we'd much prefer a nice fix over involving other parties).

Forgiveness?
In what made references you?
There is no change, regrettably your information is erroneous, to notice by you even.
For any additional information, I remain at your disposal if need be.

Greetings

青山 素子

(In a rare public notice...)

therebel has been banned from this site for ban evasion and trolling.

Now, the people actually concerned can move this topic along.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


doumdoum

Quote from: Motoko-chan on July 11, 2008, 03:47:55 AM
(In a rare public notice...)

therebel has been banned from this site for ban evasion and trolling.

Now, the people actually concerned can move this topic along.
Quelle perte de temps la pose du ban, faut grandir un peu.
Pas très professionnel cette attitude, quel dommage.....

MkC



Which waste of time the installation of the banns, needs to increase little.
Not very professional this attitude, which damage.....

MkC

Ben_S

Liverpool FC Forum with 14 million+ posts.

Fustrate

Come, Ronald, I smell a troll in the girls' lavatory!

We can close this now...
Steven Hoffman
Former Team Member, 2009-2012

青山 素子

Quote from: YodaOfDarkness on July 11, 2008, 10:46:29 AM
Come, Ronald, I smell a troll in the girls' lavatory!

LOL. Guess what comes up #1 on a search in Google for that phrase?

I'll leave this open for those genuinely interested and close later if there trolls keep smashing in.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


Fustrate

Quote from: Motoko-chan on July 11, 2008, 11:17:46 AM
Quote from: YodaOfDarkness on July 11, 2008, 10:46:29 AM
Come, Ronald, I smell a troll in the girls' lavatory!

LOL. Guess what comes up #1 on a search in Google for that phrase?

I'll leave this open for those genuinely interested and close later if there trolls keep smashing in.
SMF once again shows that it's #1!
Steven Hoffman
Former Team Member, 2009-2012

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