Why the dissatisfaction?

[xenovanis]

Last week I noticed several people complaining about the lack of help on this forum. I saw them threatening to use other forums like phpBB and IPB, harass teammembers, even deleting their accounts. This is something I don't understand.

Since I registered to this forum (being a complete noob, knowing absolutely nothing about php) a couple of months ago I found my answers here, learned about php and mysql and got answers to all my questions, either by asking in a topic, reading topics, reading faqs and manuals or using the search buttons. This was so even before I became a chartermember, and still is.

Why is it that people expect the teammembers of SMF to do everything for them? This forum is filled with information, you should just take the time to find what you want. You can't expect to use open source software without the needs of modifying some aspects, which is also the beauty of it because you can adjust your forum to your satisfaction. Plenty of members are willing to share their findings, themes, mods for free, which they made in their own time and with their own skills. So, maybe they are not perfect at once, with the help of others they will be.

I'd just like to point out my appreciation to the ones who made this great project possible and for the help I received. Whereever and whenever I look I see teammembers running around helping others out and I'm proud to be part of this community. It makes me want to help others as well.

So, before you start complaining, consider this:

-> You're using free software
-> Everything possible will be done to make it perfect, no matter how many upgrades it might take
-> Most of your answers are stored somewhere in this forum, use the searchbutton
-> If they are not, the teammembers will do everything within their knowledge to help you out
-> Don't be lazy and start exploring yourself, you can't expect all to be done fore you

Enjoy SMF!

[[Unknown]]

Just so you know some of these people were... uhh, the same person .

Most of the dissatisfaction you speak of comes from the highly-modded camp.  While some people feel SMF is already over-featured (and in some ways I agree), and others feel it is evenly- or well-featured, there are some who feel it is not featured enough.  This, of course, is normal and to be expected.

If you use Microsoft Word, and you want to... say, make it so when you click File -> New it just opens a new standard word document, or so that Ctrl-} sets up your favorite font... you can't.  It's just not possible.  Will Microsoft do the change for you, if you ask them?  No freaking way.  What if you want to be able to go to Tools -> Play my writing music for those long essays?  Is there a plugin already written for that?  Can one even be written?

People expect more out of this software.  They want to be able to adjust everything.  Things they know they can't in other software.... but they know they can in this.  Yet, they complain - because they are having trouble doing it!  If they were using Word, it basically wouldn't be an option at all - but in this, because it's an option, but still takes a lot of work they are not willing to do... they complain!

Most of the modding camp are teenagers or lower.  Don't get me wrong, I love teenagers - I'm 19 myself, and most of the girls I like (that is to say all) are in that same range.  Thus I can safely say, I love teenagers.  Seriously though, teenagers sometimes just want things done, and haven't gotten the clue yet that their parents won't do it.  Not all, and I think we've all been there too.... or still are... but, it's true nonetheless.  And, so, these people who want mods... have no patience for it to be done, and no respect for the work involved.  In other words, they're spoiled.  That's okay - I'm plenty spoiled too.  We all have our faults, and I bet I could show anyone else up with mine.

The sad truth is, there's no pleasing everyone.  Especially the group of people who are not satisfied currently.  And, there aren't yet enough of their group who are motivated enough to create what they all want.  So, they're gonna complain.  It's going to happen.  They want their mods, even sometimes they want them as features...

You, on the other hand, and others.... aren't scared.  You know mommy doesn't know PHP, so you take initiative and learn PHP yourself.  You know what you want, and you take it.  Many teenagers are like this too.  Many, even, of the above teenagers simply flip-flop between the two states - in fact, that's probably the most common.  And, so, because you're willing to put out effort yourself - other people sense this, and feel more like helping you.

I have seen it time and time again.  It's human nature.  If someone sees someone who wants something done, however much they nag... if they're not willing to do it themself, however difficult, they don't really care.  If they are willing, they do care.  And, people will fall over themselves trying to help another person with something they CARE about.... but they will have trouble helping someone who doesn't care.  Just how it works with most people.  So, if you care... you'll get a LOT more help than if you don't care.  Or, in other words, if you're willing to work at it yourself, you'll get enough help that it may practically be done for you... but if you aren't, you'll get little.

I know, if someone posted and said, I'm working on X, I'd help them.  Anything they need.  But, if they said, I want you to make me X, I'd say: sorry, don't have time.  And it's true: I don't.

-[Unknown]

[Pause]

My sentiments exactly 

[Jeff Lewis]

Generally I think it's human nature. We're not perfect though and at times we may let things slip. I feel that if people are courteous to the team if they have slipped up, the team is more than happy to respond back in a likewise fashion.

It's when people "attack" the team that there becomes friction. We're here providing you with free software and free support. We like to do so and one way of saying thanks for your efforts is being constructive in your crticism

[Oldiesmann]

I guess people complain because they figure we don't want to lose them as a "customer", and we'll automatically do something about it to avoid sending someone off on a bad note. While we would love to be able to please everyone, it just isn't possible, and complaining isn't going to get you anywhere. Take the time to ask nicely and we'll try to help you in every way possible.

[jerm]

i for one am very satisfied with smf forums. I was running phpbb for my first month, then came into conflicts with phpbb.If you ever noticed their webhosting advertisig on the bottom that says  phpBB Hosting at $7.95. its an actual link, not a ad that changes every so often. So i figured it was a hosting company that phpbb thought was best to run their program. I soon found out it was by far one of the worse hosting companies i have ever seen. So i messaged them on the boards about that. post got locked with a response like "who cares". So i re-opened another thread on the same topic.. and of course it got closed with a rudder comment. So i thought of emailing the "owner" of phpbb, and never got a response. So since i totaly disagreed with what phpbb stood for. I looked for a change, and another hosting company. SMF was on that hosting company as one of the options.. i installed it, and its worked great ever since. So ya i guess im just saying thanks to all the people who put together this forum package, its really quite amazing, and i dont see why i'd ever really want to use another forum again. . i could go on listing all the features i enjoy, but its pretty much all of them, and its a lot of features to list lol

[Kretz]

Currently Im using IPB 2.0.3 and it truly is a great board, not many faults... exept for one... a big one... it costs so damn much! If it didnt cost so much it would be perfect (almost). And one more thing... its not open source so its not easily modified wich I think it should be.
Therefore, after all the good stuff I've heard about this software, I will probably switch to SMF instead.

I will get back with my opinion when I've got it running and got some experience.

Oh, and by the way, I advise everyone to take my opinion seriously since Ive probably got more experience with bb's then every single one of you, Ive been admin/moderator on about 100 boards during 2004 only.

Here is my opinion about some bb softwares:

phpBB: Great software, not many flaws. Looks kinda boring tho, could have a little more graphics. Some features missing but that can often be fixed with mods from their HUGE mod database.
Their community forum is HUGE, most of your questions are answered by searching through the forums. They have alot of skins and mods on their main site. ITS OPEN SOURCE!!!
Rate: 4/5

IPB: Great software aswell, almost no flaws. Costs way too much, but if you are looking after the best bb software and are willing to pay for it, this is the one. Support is great. It looks realy good from the start, you could actually run it with the default skin without puking (u cant do that wiht phpbb)... There is some free skins out there but I dont like them. The proffesional skins costs about $20 but they do look very nice though. There is mods out there but they are little harder to find and there isnt even close to the amount of mods for phpBB. ITS NOT OPEN SOURCE!!!
Rate: 4.7/5

SMF: Comming soon...

[redone]

I love SMF myself. I have learnt and taken several of the mod's off my board! People around here have always been helpful to me.

To be honest this forum just like any will have its fair share of people who don't just expect a reply in a posting but you to login and work on there site for them!

[Kindred]

Wow, Kretz...   full of yourself, aren't you?

Personally, I love SMF.   I've been BBSing since the modem-BBS days. I originally ran Wildcat from Mustang Software... but as has been mentioned about various systems... it was expensive and they did not provide Source...

tried a bunch of others and got into WWIV software.  With a relatively inexpensive registration, I got the source code in Pascal, which was upgraded to C and thence to C++. Mods were published mostly by the SysOps... and the board was extremely customizable, once you knew a little C...

What's the purpose of this flashback into days of yore?

Well, SMF is just like that... Except you don't even have to register/pay to get the source code!

Personally, with my long time of experience with BBSs, I rate SMF a 9 out of 10... why not a 10? Well, because there's always room for improvement. (LOL!)
I tried a bunch of the other systems, and quite honestly, I don't like phpBB... I don't like IPB... I can't stand simpleboard...

I have found the SMF team to be extremely helpful... I have found the other SMF users to be extremely helpful... and I, in turn, have attempted to be helpful to others.


Now, back to the original question of the thread...   WHy do all these people (or single person with multiple accounts) complain?
Well, as people have already said, these guys want something handed to them that does everythign, including wash the dishes. They want it all with no work... They can't be bothered to learn php...
No offense to the teenagers out there (I have not been a teenager for a long time), but I see it every day in school... kids are LAZY. They've been handed things by parents, they've been handed things by teachers... they've seen that there is no need to do any real work.
(now, mind you, this may be (and probably is) particular to the US)
It's the culture... Kids (and hence the adults they become) now expect to be rewarded to doing the things they are supposed to do anyway, and the only punishment for not doing them is a delay on the reward.

[Trekkie101]

Kretz exactly who do you think you are, your ego is bigger than the biggest forum on the net. Your opinion is valued and I notice quite a few valid points, but you are treating the rest of us like our opinions don't count and you don't care what anyone says.  Those 100 boards I feel sorry for.

Currently I'm using IPB 2.0.3 and it truly is a great board, not many faults

Give it time, there will be flaws found, every software has them.

Ive probably got more experience with bb's then every single one of you

I highly doubt it, you've maybe tried a few but doesn't make you an expert, you haven't made a board software thats a major player have you? Then I suggest many people here: Developers, Mod Developers, Skinners, Support Team, Some members, all probably know a great deal more than you. (Work for AOL tech support? Always say there the best but have to call other people)

phpBB: Great software, not many flaws.

Check your mail, or check phpBB.com another two flaws have just been fixed, thats three updates in just as many months, its not there fault but theres flaws all right. Also its in 438th place for size.

HUGE mod database

Theres 100+ here already and the first version is only just out

Looks kinda boring tho, could have a little more graphics

What is to stop your expertise from enhancing it

IPB: Great software as well, almost no flaws

Maybe it does have flaws, just harder to find.

but if you are looking after the best BB software and are willing to pay for it,

In your opinion not mine

default skin without puking (u cant do that with phpbb)...

But I thought we were to take you serious, i doubt you actually throw up.

Please don't come here and shout to regular people like myself about how your an expert, and why we should listen to you more than say:
xenovanis
[Unknown]
Mattitude
Jeff
Oldiesmann
electrohome88

I took particular offense to this topic, purely the way you phrased it. It seemed awful aggressive and disrespectful to me and probably others.

[ryanbsoftware]

i like SMF, it has the main features i expect and you can almost find a mod for whatever other functinality you want, i personally have a somewhat higely modded forum but i like to have specific features.  when i first found out about SMF and heard its based off of yabbse, i didn't want to bother to try it cause i figured not much would change and it would be just as, sorry to say but bad.  but its not their were any other free bbs for me to try and it turned out that SMF is 1.00000x10^1000 times better than yabbse.

[Kretz]

Trekkie101, my post didnt come out as it was supposed to, Im realy sorry if you found it offensive.

The thing I said about I having more experience then every single one of you was supposed to be more then most of you, just a typing mistake.

And I know IPB has flaws aswell, but I havent found that many, and Ive never had a problem with the board 'couse of flaws. The same thing goes with phpBB.

The thing about phpBB looking boring is the default skin, you can always custimize everything.

About IPB being the best, that my opinion and I havent realy tried SMF yet, I will do that soon, maybe today and I will come here with my opinion about it aswell...


And one more thing, I realy think you should listen to everyone, but lets say... someone who is only here to insult people and such things... should they be taken as seriously as an expert? I dont think so anyway. Everyone deserves to be listened to, but if they come here saying stuff thats realy not true and got no facts to back it up, then that opinion should not be taken seriously...

Again, sorry if you and others found my post offensive in any way, Im here to learn about SMF not to insult anyone or post offensive opinions...

Thank you.

[Kretz]

Ive now installed SMF and tried it out a little, done some tests... and all I have to say is WOW! This bb software is great, it has the ease of phpbb and the features of IPB and it looks great... The ACP is easy aswell...

Rate: 4.9/5 (there is always stuff that can be improved)

[Amacythe]

Oh I get it.  You came here to make a first post to get everyone's attention, then ease our minds with your opinion of how much better SMF is.  Sneaky, but at least you've seen the light

[Kretz]

I said at first that I was gonna try SMF and come here with my opinion about it...and so I did... Im realy happy I tried it though 

[Jeff Lewis]

Everyone deserves to be listened to, but if they come here saying stuff thats realy not true and got no facts to back it up, then that opinion should not be taken seriously...

Fully agreed that everyones opinion matters. While you can't please everyone all of the time, there are certainly things to learn from feedback given to the team.

[[Unknown]]

Personally, I like SMF too but I'm obviously biased.

I will say one thing... excluding SMF (since I am so biased) I would prefer vBulletin over Invision for one reason: I have seen evidence that the former is much more scalable to larger situations.  It's still to be seen how SMF performs here, in many ways, but I've seen Invision flounder more than vBulletin - which flounders at a point too.

(or single person with multiple accounts)

We've had that.  They think they're so slick too.

No offense to the teenagers out there (I have not been a teenager for a long time), but I see it every day in school... kids are LAZY.

Well, I'll say two things to this:

1. I'm a geek, and I've got geek friends.  I could show you a bunch of people who definitely are not lazy.
2. Being lazy can be a good thing; the reason I'm so keen to have SMF fast is completely out of laziness: I'm way too impatient to wait for anything!  I want it now, and if that means more work programming, fine, but I'll have it now .  Many people optimize out of laziness.

I would have worded that better, but my face feels like it's melting off because of my cold, so it's hard to make accurate sentences.  I think I made my point, hopefully.

Check your mail, or check phpBB.com another two flaws have just been fixed, thats three updates in just as many months, its not there fault but theres flaws all right. Also its in 438th place for size.

Well, I think you're being awfully harsh here.  The phpBB software, while not my personal cup o' tea, has had a lot of work go into it, and can't help getting flaws found.  There are flaws in everything, because there are flaws in us, and I wouldn't say anything so strong about such well-used software.

Anyway, I think you took Kretz' feedback a bit strongly too, to me it sounded as if it was made in some humour.  Regardless, all's well that ends well so I hope we can all shake each other's hands?

The ACP is easy aswell...

Actually, I find that many - coming from Invision - for some reason say the administration center is complicated and hard to navigate.  While I've always felt that the Invision one is just that, and SMF's is much better, I am again biased.  I'm glad to hear someone who likes Invision saying otherwise.

Thanks for your comments.

-[Unknown]

[ryanbsoftware]

i agree SMF is the best, i have tried many BBS, i would say this is even beter than vb, because its free, and it still has the main features, and tons of mods for just about anything else you can think of.

[Elijah Bliss]

One of the #1 rules on my board is Don't complain about free stuff.

Get a Charter Membership, then you can complain, lol j/k

Seriously though, I understand criticisms, but people who belly ache make me sick. I've seen quite a few questionable complaints and requests since I've been here.

I came from YaBB to SMF. I love SMF. Great stuff. I've gotten more than my money's worth of help here. I even learned some basic PHP and MySQL. Beyond that, I even picked up some lateral thinking skills while modding my forum. I'm a photographer/graphic designer, both of which gives you wide latitude, to get away with mistakes, if there is such a thing in that field creatively, programming on the other hand works a different area of the gray matter an excellent mental exercise, little to no room for mistakes.

Now that's what I've gotten out of SMF.

[Unknown] is 19? No way! He's going to be the Shawn Fanning of Message Boards.
SMF is one hell of a project to have on your resume at such a young age.

[Pause]

[Unknown] is 19? No way! He's going to be the Shawn Fanning of Message Boards.
SMF is one hell of a project to have on your resume at such a young age.

Who's Shawn Fanning? 

[[Unknown]]

That Napster guy, I think?  Something like that...

-[Unknown]

[ryanbsoftware]

well if they gripe about it then their loss, SMF is great and will, hopefully, only get beter with time.  I came for vbulletin, if I had the choice i would have stayed but it wasn't my license, it was a loadned license that was taken away so the owner could exchange it for hosting...jerk...so after trying many BBS someone told me about SMF and i saw the site, it looked basic but I know looks can be decieving but then they told me it was based off of yabbse, which i have used and i almost just moved along but they convinced me its beter than yabbse and i tried it and i would have to say, it is beter than vb cause its free and still has all the main features and more with tons of mods.

[rider]

All I can say is ,this is the best support forum I've ever seen with so many options and so much support from this site.Bloc's and the arcade.I'm new to this and I've learned alot in a month.So if people want to gripe ,they can take a hike.People just have to learn to be patience and realize there's not much better out there then SMF. .Thanks for the help cause without you my site would say page cannot be displayed lol.rider

[Kretz]

One thing I cant understand is why people expect more from free software then from paid software... shouldnt it be the opposite? The makers of paid software have more money to spend on development, the makers of free software often do everything on their spare time, wich mean they have less time and less money. To see that SMF is as good as IPB surprised me alot, since its free. I thought this would be more like phpBB. I cant compare it to vBulletin though 'couse Ive never realy used it... Im a member of one but not admin... so I cant judge it fully so I wont judge it at all...

I realy think I'll stay on this forum as a very active member for a long time... so... I'll see you all later, not I have to go kill some humans in Natural Selection (this game owns!).

Oh, btw if you want to know, so you will understand me better... I'm 16

~Kretz, Professional Forum Manager
Founder of these networks:
The 8th Dimension
KretzNet
KN Inc.
Shadowbane Warriors
Zyzzeph
Haunted by Screams
Haunted by Shadows

and many more...

BTW. Check out hxxp:forums.killagraphix.com [nonactive] it's a great forum, they make the best graphics out there (thats my opinion).

[Trekkie101]

Link seems dead   

[Kretz]

They've had some server problems these last few days, but they will be up and running soon again...

[[Unknown]]

[Unknown] is 19? No way! He's going to be the Shawn Fanning of Message Boards.
SMF is one hell of a project to have on your resume at such a young age.

Sigh... I just got a pm from someone who was previously interested in SMF, its development, and the promotion thereof.  This person basically said that he hadn't realized I was 19 before, and now that he knew that the lead developer was 19, he was saying "goodbye" and wouldn't be interested in SMF a second longer.

Forgive me, but I can't see any way that's anything but pathetic.  I know that's a bit harsh to say, but I've never met a great man (meaning, one who has done only good works and has never/rarely dissapointed me, and believe me I've met quite a few such) who cared one bit about my age.

To hear someone say such things to me because I am younger than them, well... I hope they learn otherwise shortly.  I can only guess this person must not have ever had children, because while I haven't... my younger brother, who is ten years younger than me, proves to me that children can do great things and know much more, in cases, than adults.

After all, this little brother of mine has been able to use a computer and play games on it himself, ever since he was like four or five.  I know adults who can't do that much with computers, and I'm not kidding.

Whatever... things like this just darken my outlook on the overall greatness of mankind a bit.  Sorry for the rant.

-[Unknown]

[Grudge]

Well, I'm 22 which makes me a whole three years older than [Unknown], but not a day here goes by when I don't learn something from him - just because I'm older doesn't make me better

Ageism is unfortunatly something we all have to suffer. Professionally (i.e as my real job), I work as a project manager, and it can be very difficult to try and get people to take you seriously when you're telling them what you want from them, and they are twice your age. To most you prove your worth through your actions - but to some they will never accept that someone so young (or old) can be in a position of responsiblity *sigh*

[Kindred]

Sheesh... I didn't know all the bigwigs at SMF were babies... agewise...

just kidding guys. You're right, age has nothing at all to do with talent or skill...   and I honestly don't see why it would matter what age you are. Of course, as Grudge points out, ageism exists.... in both respects. People on one of the other message boards I frequent got really upset whe they found out I wa sin my 30s and not a teenager like them.

[Amacythe]

Sigh... I just got a pm from someone who was previously interested in SMF, its development, and the promotion thereof.  This person basically said that he hadn't realized I was 19 before, and now that he knew that the lead developer was 19, he was saying "goodbye" and wouldn't be interested in SMF a second longer.

If this person has decided he's too old to learn, then he IS too old.  If he's saying it because he doubts your dedication, he needs to take a look around.  If he said it just because he has no faith in youth, he has a LOT to learn about the people here.

I have learned so much from [Unknown] and people that are even younger than he is.

[David]

Eh, adults these days.

[Elijah Bliss]

[Unknown] is 19? No way! He's going to be the Shawn Fanning of Message Boards.
SMF is one hell of a project to have on your resume at such a young age.

Sigh... I just got a pm from someone who was previously interested in SMF, its development, and the promotion thereof.  This person basically said that he hadn't realized I was 19 before, and now that he knew that the lead developer was 19, he was saying "goodbye" and wouldn't be interested in SMF a second longer.

Forgive me, but I can't see any way that's anything but pathetic.  I know that's a bit harsh to say, but I've never met a great man (meaning, one who has done only good works and has never/rarely dissapointed me, and believe me I've met quite a few such) who cared one bit about my age.

To hear someone say such things to me because I am younger than them, well... I hope they learn otherwise shortly.  I can only guess this person must not have ever had children, because while I haven't... my younger brother, who is ten years younger than me, proves to me that children can do great things and know much more, in cases, than adults.

After all, this little brother of mine has been able to use a computer and play games on it himself, ever since he was like four or five.  I know adults who can't do that much with computers, and I'm not kidding.

Whatever... things like this just darken my outlook on the overall greatness of mankind a bit.  Sorry for the rant.

-[Unknown]

Man, forget about the PM.
His major loss.

SMF is almost if not already at the top of the heap.
One of the main creators, 19.

Do you know what 99% of 19 year olds are doing?
Absolutely nothing!

I was no slouch at 19, but this is extremely impressive, maybe I'm making to big a deal of it, but most 19 year olds I know aren't doing jack squat but getting drunk and being placed on academic probation.

[Kretz]

Well, I do understand why he left, but I dont support it... he just dont know what youths can do. Just need to look around a little and he'd know what I'm talking about...

So, let us show everyone how great we are

[ElLizzardo]

Throwing in my 2 cents, here.
I've been a YaBB user for eons, then upgraded to YaBBSE, which I used fruitfully for several years.
When SMF first came out I gave it a shot (since there'd be no more YaBBSE support anymore).
SMF was so chock-full-o-bugs I was driving Unknown and Grudge nuts. Even simple stuff like logging in became a chore. Bottom line is, these guys were courteous and did everything they could to make MY "One of thousands" board work.
I gave up the ghost, went to phpBB (which seems to be the BB most celebrities use) but found that every thing YaBBSE/SMF had as standard was a hand-edited mod (e.g., a calendar board). Add a few mods and your board crashes and you have to start from scratch.
So I gave SMF another shot and have been extremely impressed with the progress made and think that the board, and the service given by its unpaid staff is top quality.

Most free software support teams are very antagonistic to people seeking help.
SMF, like its predecessors YaBB and YaBBSE, are great. The mods and updates are easy and the functionality is better than any other board, paid or not. Granted phpBB has more themes available, but some of the stuff coming out recently is beating phpBB themes.

This is coming from a 50-year-old old timer who does computers for the USAF and wishes he had the knowledge and capability at 19 that you guys have.

[bloc]

I can only agreed here...if you can't accept that young people know a lot more than you do , then its just pathetic and probably have some other issues than purely age.

Same thing in real life. People who don't know what they're doing , but give the impression they do, is the ones that gets to me - and they can be 15 or 50 years old, it really doesn't matter.

[[Unknown]]

SMF was so chock-full-o-bugs I was driving Unknown and Grudge nuts. Even simple stuff like logging in became a chore.

I don't remember it being *that* buggy... I mean you could always log in!

Though, Beta 1 was pretty sketchy.  It got stable-ish around Beta -3.1415, but it still wasn't meant for production until RC1....

-[Unknown]

[Trekkie101]

Beta 5 was when I joined the  party, it was kicking cool and not buggy from what I saw.

[ryanbsoftware]

RC2 was out when i joined.

[ElLizzardo]

It was when YaBBSE closed down and SMF was first made available for non-charter members...so about a year ago...don't know what version...
I didn't mean to sound like I was dissing [Unknown] or SMF, but I did have problems with that release...including "member does not exist," or something to that effect, when I tried to login as admin (I think it was a cookie problem...).
Again, the team has done, and keeps doing, an incredible job.

[_complex]

RC2 was out when i joined.

RC2 was when i came into play also

[loudog]

I'm still in total shock that UNKNOWN is 19. I can't even fathom a 19 year old being able to design a board as complex, and well put together as SMF.  UNKNOWN being 19 only means one thing.... how smart is this guy going to be at 30? He can only get better, which is very scary. All I can say is WOW. 

I work to many hours to be able to help out on this site, or learn PHP like I want to, but I'm very grateful, and so are all my members (probably well over a thousand over the years since Yabb 1 gold) that you guys are doing this great project.

I've always found everyone very helpful. Sure you don't always get answers right away, and problems come up with installs. Considering the volume of the questions, and the fact that in the mean time many of these people have to re-write, and write code for new versions and updates of SMF, I think they are doing an OUTSTANDING JOB!!!!

I was always a big Microsoft fool, but using the SMF software has made me realize how awesome open source can be. Not only is it better in many ways,  its also a great learning tool for everyone. So rather then learn nothing from the Microsofts, and other paid softwares, you are able to enjoy a free software, and at the same time learn from it. 

I've run a free Diecast hobby site in some form since 96. Software like SMF, and other free software types have made it possible for me to stay on line with my site, and enjoy the internet with people from all over the world. I've met and still corespond with the president of Mattel Toys division (Hotwheels diecast), and many other awesome people over years. With out these types of tools, things like that would never have happened to a small time factory worker like me.  Its software like this that makes the WWW such a wonderful tool. 

So hat off to UNKNOWN, and everyone else involved, thanks for helping to make my life and many others just a little more interesting!!!!

[araouf]

I am 25 (nearing 26) and I honestly have more respect for UNKNOWN now, that I know he is 19. He managed to pull all of this off, which is an incredible accomplishment irrelevant of age. It must have taken a huge amount of dedication, drive and effort to bring SMF where it is now. I actually found out about SMF by fluke. I was looking through the list of scripts available from Fantastico. One of them was a bulletion board system called SMF, that I had never heard of before.  I came to this site, tried it out and was amazed. It was like I had found a hidden treasure. In my opinion this board blows PHPBB out of the water, and when the word spreads out further about SMF, it could eventually be a threat to VBulletin.

I think the support here in these forms is outstanding and rivals the support for many products out there, even for commercial products let alone free ones!

The least I can do to help these guys at SMF out is spread the word about SMF as much as I can. And I try to do that, each time I am on a forum and someone asks which forum script they should use? Or I tell my friends to use SMF when they want to start their own site.

So keep up the good work fellas!

[Fizzy]

Oh I got [Unknown]'s age wrong -

I had you pegged for 18 matey. But then I keep forgetting that SMF has been in the mix for nearly 2 years, so I hope I can be excused for that.

Age ! Is it relevent to a persons ability? Is it relevent to a persons natural talent?
History has shown time and time again that genius is not restricted by age - eg - Alexander the Great ( ageneral at 16) , Chopin 1st concert at age 7, Mozart composer at age 5 etc etc - Average age of soldiers in the Vietnam conflict anybody ? ? ? N-N-N-N---- you can guess the rest

In my honest opinion if a member bailed out because of the excuse of your age then that person was just looking for an excuse in the first place.
The last time I checked age had no bearing on quality of code, but some people may get upset at the thought that 'A mere 19 year old' can actually code better than they can

Well for the record the fact that is 19 should be recognised as a credit to his dedication, learning ability and coding skills - how many 19 year olds do I know that are dedicated enough to do what this man has acheived? None.

Well done that man. You should be proud of what you have accomplished and have earned my respect for it.



As for the issue of guys trashing SMF for not getting what they want, when they want it etc ........ That's a great shame - they are the ones that lose out, not the Dev and Support teams.
Using the word "please" and showing a little patience costs nothing - especially when the software they are using cost them the same .... nothing.

Foot stomping and dummy spitting doesn't get you anywhere in life - I fail to see why they should be treated any differently here at SMF.
If they want to go to phpbb then good luck to them - i'm sure they'll get similar responses there too ... maybe then they might rethink their ways and ask themselves who is at fault.

Good job SMF team - keep up the good work - The majority of us appreciate all your hard work

[Lefteris_D]

Sigh... I just got a pm from someone who was previously interested in SMF, its development, and the promotion thereof.  This person basically said that he hadn't realized I was 19 before, and now that he knew that the lead developer was 19, he was saying "goodbye" and wouldn't be interested in SMF a second longer.

I'm turning 23 next month(April) and some people say that I am too young.

I pay no attention to them

[Kretz]

[Unknown], you have inspired me alot, even though I've just been here for 2 weeks or so... I've decided that I will work hard with my forum and I will join some project (havent decided wich one yet) and work with that... hard.  This maybe doesnt seem like much, but if you knew me, you'd know it is alot...

Thank you [Unknown]!

[TXSherry]

Eh, adults these days.

  and may I say again: 

LOL.

Hey, I wish I still had the energy and time for hobbies (non paid exercises) that I did in my 20s!  I remember pulling all-nighters in a row.  I remember existing on Dr Pepper and donuts and writing term papers at the last minute and still being able to go party on Friday night.  heh.

Anyway, to all of the SMF programming team, Jeff Lewis, [unknown], Grudge (and all those I don't know about) and Modders and Themers and Doc writers (can I hear a loud HALLELUJIA! for documentation?!)
thanks for putting in YOUR time and pouring in YOUR energy and maintaining a professional standard.

A very grateful user
The old, but not decrepit,
Sherry


ps: You're only as old as you act!    So, I pick 16.  Ha!

[[Unknown]]

[Unknown], you have inspired me alot, even though I've just been here for 2 weeks or so... I've decided that I will work hard with my forum and I will join some project (havent decided wich one yet) and work with that... hard.  This maybe doesnt seem like much, but if you knew me, you'd know it is alot...

Thank you [Unknown]!

I'm glad I was able, in some small way, to do some good for someone .

ps: You're only as old as you act!    So, I pick 16.  Ha!

Heh... I have a friend who is a bit older... legally blind, and doesn't have everything going her way.  Still, she insists that she's only nineteen, and I remember I told her (after my nineteenth birthday) that I was now older than her .

-[Unknown]