Re: PornHub BBCode

[K3TK3TK3T]

why in the world is simplemachines allowing something like this?

[lucas-ruroken]

why in the world is simplemachines allowing something like this?

Why?, only is a little bbcode mod

[K3TK3TK3T]

"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."

from the member agreement. this classifies as 'adult' material.

[Reflection]

How so? It contains nothing but a script that embeds videos.

It contains nothing of that nature until it's actually on-site.

[[A-US]James246]

Well then what is the point of wasting your time making it, when as soon as someone uses it, they'll be banned straight away?

This is baiting/trolling in a way.

[Reflection]

Because the agreement could have been changed to allow adult material on his website.

Individual websites can make their own registration agreements, you know.

[lucas-ruroken]

"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."

from the member agreement. this classifies as 'adult' material.

I don't use this bbcode in my web
but if you want use this mod, I am not responsible for what happens

[Akyhne]

Aeva, SMG, well basically any other function, including the attachment system of SMF that can attach porn videos or images, would be violating the rules of SM.org.

But as stated earlier, this is a code to post porn on peoples own site, but it can't be used here. Therefore no issues. Whether people use it on their own sites, is completely up to them.

Besides, any forum software can be used to post false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, as well as adult material.

Should we stop offering SMF because of that

[kat]

You can put pr0n pix in IMG tags. Maybe we ought to stop those, too...

I do wish people would stop inflicting others with their own prejudices, here...

[MrPhil]

from the member agreement. this classifies as 'adult' material.

No it isn't. This topic is notice of a tool which could be installed on a forum to facilitate linking, ah, "adult" material. Don't install it on your forum if you don't want it used. There was no need to report this topic. There was no sexually explicit material in the post. I would ask the topic owner to keep an eye out for idiots posting sexually explicit material in this topic, but other than that, there is no problem.

If I sold steak knives and someone used one to commit a murder, should I be charged with the crime?

[lucas-ruroken]

from the member agreement. this classifies as 'adult' material.

No it isn't. This topic is notice of a tool which could be installed on a forum to facilitate linking, ah, "adult" material. Don't install it on your forum if you don't want it used. There was no need to report this topic. There was no sexually explicit material in the post. I would ask the topic owner to keep an eye out for idiots posting sexually explicit material in this topic, but other than that, there is no problem.

If I sold steak knives and someone used one to commit a murder, should I be charged with the crime?

Exactly.
This is a BBCode for people to assist it in use.

[K3TK3TK3T]

If I sold steak knives and someone used one to commit a murder, should I be charged with the crime?

that is a terrible example to defend this.

lucas here is 'selling' steak knives for murders - if you match everything up.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

If I sold steak knives and someone used one to commit a murder, should I be charged with the crime?

that is a terrible example to defend this.

lucas here is 'selling' steak knives for murders - if you match everything up.

Still - this mod has no adult content, this mod holds nothing inappropriate as is. And no user of your forum will ever see anything related to this mod, unless you install this mod to your forum.

[kat]

If it was a hardcore pr0n theme, it would be different.

* Kat goes-off to design a pr0n theme...

[Yahmez]

This is pretty funny! If you have an issue with porn, just plug your ears, cover your eyes and ignore it. Hey, it works for creationists in science class!

[gbsothere]

This is pretty funny! If you have an issue with porn, just plug your ears, cover your eyes and ignore it. Hey, it works for creationists in science class!

*shrug*

[JBlaze]

Split this off from original topic.

Moved to SMF Feedback and Discussion

[aldo]

There are no screen shots posted, nothing bad in reality.

Don't like it, don't use it =P. It's called tolerance.

[IchBin™]

I think the point here is that SMF has been and will most likely continue to be a family forum. When you allow a mod that states in its very title that it is used for Porn, it comes off as a double standard. You used the Steak knife as an anology, but totally misrepresented the situation. If you wanted to compare it properly, you should have said "If I sold steak knives and advertised the knifes as weapons for murder, and someone used one to commit a murder, should I be charged with the crime?" You bet you should! SMF doesn't advertise its product as a tool for Porn, how can you put it in the same context? lol The point is, SMF advertises a family forum and community, yet allows porn mods on their site. Seems very hypocritical to me as well. AND, not to mention there's a link to a porn site in this mods topic...

[lucas-ruroken]

Where?

I do not post any link to a porn site

[1MileCrash]

"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."

from the member agreement. this classifies as 'adult' material.

This is only the default member agreement for your registering members. It's not an agreement for using SMF as a webmaster/administrator.

You have absolutely no case here.

[kat]

Live and let live people.

Trying to push your views onto others, will only make them dig their heels in all the more.

We're all different. Let's celebrate that, instead of getting all this grief, ay?

Same with religion. You're welcome to yours, but don't try and push your beliefs down my throat.

What's immoral to you, might be "Normal" for others.

Deal with it, instead of trying to make everyone the same.

If some people had their way, we'd all be bloody robotic clones of each-other.

I'd rather stiff, myself.

[MrPhil]

IchBin, you're totally off base here. First of all, this SMF forum (simplemachines.org) is not promoted as a "family forum". A "family forum" would be one where children are encouraged to come and hang out, with age-appropriate materials, in a place that their parents know will be safe for them. This forum is meant as a tool for assisting people who want to set up and operate SMF. It does have rules to try to keep its content reasonably tasteful, and offensive to the fewest number of members, which means not posting "adult" material. There is nothing in the mod itself, or the notice of its creation (which started this argument), which could be construed as being pornographic itself. If the mod (or the notice) included salty language or sexually explicit pictures, you would have a point. There will always be members like yourself who are offended by any little thing. It would be difficult to sanitize the place to your standards, without crippling its operation (vetting every single post before it goes in). Can't you settle for a PG rating rather than G? After all, most of the people here are adults (or at least, teens). We certainly don't want an X or NC-17 rating, and even an R rating might be a bit much for many members.

As for the steak knife example, a steak knife is not normally sold for purposes of committing a crime. Indeed, if I sold steak knives "guaranteed to slash your victim's throat in one stroke, or your money back", I would be promoting a crime. Using SMF for an adult site, where PornHub might come in useful, is forbidden neither by law nor by SMF's license. Indeed, SMF is used to run many adult sites. Is that a problem?

I suggest that you and K3T^3 get a life.

[IchBin™]

Thank you for making it personal, it says a lot about your character. You should perhaps review the Core Values where it says you agree to treat others with respect. While you may think I'm forcing my views upon you, it is quite the contrary. Sure I have views that I think pornography is wrong. But I wouldn't sit here defending them if this wasn't a place that has been previously advertised as such. Your assumptions are totally wrong that this isn't a family friendly forum. You should perhaps search a few of the Team members posts where it has been said this place is supposed to be family friendly. I may have left out the word "friendly" but it means the same to me no matter how you say it. If this site was a place that allowed porn to be posted in the first place, I would never have stuck around here.

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=235967.msg1520473#msg1520473
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=328771.msg2194710#msg2194710
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=318843.msg2118668#msg2118668
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=317007.msg2107818#msg2107818
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=311238.msg2159776#msg2159776
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=303707.msg2009090#msg2009090
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=270251.msg1771394#msg1771394

On the mod suport topic page there is a text link to a porn site. I have no problem with what people do on their own sites. I've never said anyone can't have porn on their own site either. What I have said is that SMF is known as a family site, and has been advertised as such. And now it is holding a double standard by allowing these things to exist, as they previously weren't.

[青山 素子]

First, cut the bickering. If you have issues with each other, please take them up privately.

Second, I have no issue with an adult modification, but linking to an adult site here is certainly not condoned. Please report the post so we have it noted in our system. We probably won't remove the modification, but the link can go.

[Eliana Tamerin]

Thank you, IchBin, you've said what I wanted to say (the impersonal remarks, anyhow).

I just wanted to make one other point. Our registration agreement also denies access to persons under age 13. Yet pornography is not legally viewable in many countries (including the US, where Simple Machines, LLC resides and SM.org is hosted) until age 18.

This I find as a particularly bad double standard. Yes, I'm aware the underage minors view porn on their own. That's not something we can stop here. But when we allow 13-17 year olds access here, give them resources to build their own websites with, should we really be providing mods to allow porn on their sites?

I don't doubt there are many ways for this same age group to reach and view porn on their own. But we're providing resources here at this site, and so long as we allow membership to those under the age of majority, we should not provide resources for those minors to access illegal content. Just as we don't promote warez sites and mods that would directly help warez sites, we should likewise deny these porn mods from SMF's official mod site.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

This I find as a particularly bad double standard. Yes, I'm aware the underage minors view porn on their own. That's not something we can stop here. But when we allow 13-17 year olds access here, give them resources to build their own websites with, should we really be providing mods to allow porn on their sites?

The mods are not needed to show porn on any site. The mod is simply a tool that can be used on a site that allows adult material.

Just a side note, has anyone realised that the most downloaded mod of SMF also has a similar side to it. No one's said anything about that - since it is up to the forum admin to allow / disallow the use of the "adult functions".

[Eliana Tamerin]

The mods are not needed to show porn on any site. The mod is simply a tool that can be used on a site that allows adult material.

It's like the argument for safe sex education. You don't provide the condom, or the knowledge to use it, and kids won't use it. Probably not exactly the same here, but if no tools are provided, there's less incentive to use them and show porn on their own forums.

Just a side note, has anyone realised that the most downloaded mod of SMF also has a similar side to it. No one's said anything about that - since it is up to the forum admin to allow / disallow the use of the "adult functions".

I've mentioned it many times in the AEVA topic and I've tried hard to get Nao to reverse course on that. He's stubborn about it. And I don't condone it either. I always manually edit my version of AEVA to remove that part.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

We seem to be on a completely different wavelength here - and that's ok, since this is all about opinions one way or the other.

I personally see nothing bad about allowing this sort of mods,
as there should be tools like these for those who wish to use them,
and it should be allowed to code tools like these for those who want to do so -
since SMF does not in any way limit the usage of the SMF software, and any admin
of any SMF installation is allowed to alter and / or completely change the registration agreement
to suit their own purpose.

So, the basic question is should we really be limiting our support and modifications etc. to be provided to only family friendly sites? I don't think so.

So while this forum is basically kept family friendly, it does not mean that everything even slightly related with adult material should be banned. If kids want porn, they will most likely not do it the hard way and make a site of their own - but simply use a search engine to get what they want.

[1MileCrash]

linking to an adult site here is certainly not condoned. Please report the post so we have it noted in our system. We probably won't remove the modification, but the link can go.

Pretty sure they were simply talking about the title of this thread.

But when we allow 13-17 year olds access here, give them resources to build their own websites with, should we really be providing mods to allow porn on their sites?

What happened to personal responsibility? We aren't their parents. You're already giving them the resources to allow porn on their sites.

If this site was a place that allowed porn to be posted in the first place, I would never have stuck around here.

this forum doesn't allow porn to be posted.

What you guys are missing is that, this is a BBC mod. It is literally about 10 characters different from any of the other BBC mods. There is nothing immoral, indecent, or questionable about the mod itself. It's possible uses? Certainly, but last time I checked there is some questionable content on youtube too, and anything can be posted within image tags.

Personal responsibility. SMF is not a babysitting service. I also disagree with Ichbin on just about everything, it seems outright assinine to limit SMF to being used only purposes that we/he agrees with. You can't control what people THINK, you just can't.

[IchBin™]

Ok, go to these pages.

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1966
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1990

I'm not saying people can't have porn on their own sites. What I'm saying is that SMF has ALWAYS advertised itself as a family friendly forum. Both of the links above HAVE PORN LINKS on the page of the mod and the support topic. How is this not questionable?  Since when has SMF started allowing porn links to be posted on this site? Personal responsibility has nothing to do with this. The only responsibility that is in question here is to keep SMF a family friendly site, and for SMF to show that it is a professional community. You can definitely control what people think about your site by what kind of content you allow to be posted. I'm not trying to control what people think or do with Porn, I'm trying to keep people from associating SMF with a less than professional opinion because they have porn mods and links posted on their site. Not even phpBB or IPB allows these types of mods on their own site to my knowledge.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

Well, you are right - both of those have the sitenames as domainnames. Perhaps it would be better to list the sites without actual addresses, as then still who uses those - will know the addresses....

[Reflection]

Why don't you just get rid of the mods and be done with it?

[Arantor]

The ultimate question is: does SMF have the right to decide what its software is used for?

If it cannot, should not, and does not police what users use it for, are they free to decide what mods get written? It is clear there are users who will use those mods, as evidenced by the fact they have been downloaded more than once.

Perhaps have a separate section for restricted/adult-only mods?

[Eliana Tamerin]

SMF has done it before. There was a question a while back about a mod that allowed admins to read their user's PMs. SMF refused to allow it on the mod site, because it violated a user's privacy. Ultimately, the mod was hosted on the author's website and was available via donation, but SMF stayed its distance and refused to promote this method to violate their user's privacy.

Why, then, is this any different? It's even more legitimate, not even simply an ethical issue but a legal one as well. As Ichbin points out, SMF is sacrificing their public image in this respect. If people want these mods so much, I'm sure somebody would be willing to host them outside of SM.org and people will go there. But so long as they're not on SM.org, SMF and Simple Machines, LLC, cannot be found responsible for them, and are not seen as promoting them. It's not a question of making them available, it's a question of who's doing that. And for all the work that SMF has done to preserve it's image, this move is quite silly.

[Arantor]

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about such mods to allow admins to review PMs, which does indeed raise the question.

Either there should be a restricted area - registered members only? - or they should go.

[1MileCrash]

SMF has done it before. There was a question a while back about a mod that allowed admins to read their user's PMs. SMF refused to allow it on the mod site, because it violated a user's privacy. Ultimately, the mod was hosted on the author's website and was available via donation, but SMF stayed its distance and refused to promote this method to violate their user's privacy.

Why, then, is this any different? It's even more legitimate, not even simply an ethical issue but a legal one as well. As Ichbin points out, SMF is sacrificing their public image in this respect. If people want these mods so much, I'm sure somebody would be willing to host them outside of SM.org and people will go there. But so long as they're not on SM.org, SMF and Simple Machines, LLC, cannot be found responsible for them, and are not seen as promoting them. It's not a question of making them available, it's a question of who's doing that. And for all the work that SMF has done to preserve it's image, this move is quite silly.

Apples and oranges.

Violation of privacy is a problem for others; you're harming others.
Voluntary viewing of pornography is not harming anyone.

You bring up the age/legal issue, you must be 18 (or 21) to view porn. So what? That's the responsibility of the site owner and/or viewers, not SMF. Last I checked, you also had to be 13 to join a forum (though I may be incorrect on this) so why don't we just stop offering a forum package? The answer is, because we are not responsible for underage users using SMF.

Still not seeing any reasons for disallowing this other than the "I don't like porn" or "it makes us look bad" - I say, picking and choosing which mods we deem "acceptable" based on irrelevant "values" makes us look bad. Though I do agree that text links to "PornHub" are completely out of the question on the Simple Machines website. What other people do with the software is absolutely none of your business, however.

[ademarre]

Why not take it a step further and have MS stop developing Internet Explorer. It can be used to view pornography after all!

We should also ban any tool that can execute SQL statements, after all, any admin also has access to the database where user PMs are stored, and thus has access to the PMs.

All sarcasm aside, I don't think any community driven project can force the morals of the few onto its community without losing the respect of said community.

My forums are 18+ and as such users are allowed to post adult content, I will fight tooth and nail to ensure my users are not only allowed, but enabled to express themselves however they see fit, within the limits of the law.

[TheDisturbedOne]

Why get rid of it? I won't use it, and if you don't want to use it, don't.  AEVA does the same thing along with IMG tags (as one said before).  If people want it on their website, an everything about it is legal, it should be fine.

[aldo]

Well said my friend, well said.

[K3TK3TK3T]

Apples and oranges.

Violation of privacy is a problem for others; you're harming others.
Voluntary viewing of pornography is not harming anyone.

You bring up the age/legal issue, you must be 18 (or 21) to view porn. So what? That's the responsibility of the site owner and/or viewers, not SMF. Last I checked, you also had to be 13 to join a forum (though I may be incorrect on this) so why don't we just stop offering a forum package? The answer is, because we are not responsible for underage users using SMF.

Still not seeing any reasons for disallowing this other than the "I don't like porn" or "it makes us look bad" - I say, picking and choosing which mods we deem "acceptable" based on irrelevant "values" makes us look bad. Though I do agree that text links to "PornHub" are completely out of the question on the Simple Machines website. What other people do with the software is absolutely none of your business, however.

voluntary viewing of pornography is not harming anyone?  then why is it illegal for people under 18 to do that?  would you say the same thing about smoking?

whoever approved the mod was not thinking right anyway, because they allowed that link.  the age/legal issue is something that no one should be saying "it isn't my responsibility" or "it isn't SMF's responsibility," because that is obvious, it is the viewer's responsibility to obey the law.  however, i'm pretty sure that the porn places/sites have to, by law, require that the user say that they are 18 years+ when going onto the site/whatever.  but when the mod was approved, SMF provided an easy link to a porn site, no mention of 18+.  SMF is not responsible for underage users, no of course not, and neither are porn sites - the user is responsible.  however, if SMF, like a porn site, has adult material/links to adult material/THIS PACKAGE on it, then it had better require some sort of "I am 18+" button.  otherwise, they are being irresponsible(which is what i'd call SMF right now, and i'm a charter member - shouldn't you care SMF?).

IE can be used to do a lot of things, and no where does it tell you that it is for viewing/accessing/downloading adult material.  however, this package has one purpose, and one function.  get rid of it because it was created for using adult material.  aeva can do adult material, but it isn't for that.  aeva's function to do adult material should be removed though, because it's basically basically this package within aeva.

a lot of people will fight without logic for porn, possibly because the truth may be that they are just trying to defend their own lifestyles.  one time i heard someone(not on this site) had said that porn was perfectly ok because in the bible(yes i said the bible, now flare up on me or be respectable, your choice), adam and eve were naked.  that's strikingly similar to the remark about IE.  bringing up stupid arguments like aeva's ability to show adult material making THIS mod ok, and the whole IE thing is something thought up for quick defense.  no one who has thought up these things has thought them through, because they are not after what is right.

We should also ban any tool that can execute SQL statements, after all, any admin also has access to the database where user PMs are stored, and thus has access to the PMs.

no, but it should be in the user agreement that their PM's are in fact not private, like that.

All sarcasm aside, I don't think any community driven project can force the morals of the few onto its community without losing the respect of said community.

force morals?  you act like that's a bad thing.  what about rules?  is it ok to enforce rules?  most rules exist are based off of the rule-makers morals, you know.  this site has rules, i think, actually not too sure because of this stuff, and i don't see a rules button anywhere, or any sort of rule reminder.  and by the way, i've lost some respect for SMF because of this mod, i regret paying to be a charter member.

My forums are 18+ and as such users are allowed to post adult content, I will fight tooth and nail to ensure my users are not only allowed, but enabled to express themselves however they see fit, within the limits of the law.

i hope you're requiring that they say they are 18+, otherwise you yourself are not within the limits of the law.

the most i have to offer to SMF - my attention - i am willing to take away if this mod and the other one which i am about to link to are not removed, because if SMF doesn't think respecting me - which it has failed to do by allowing this package, the links, and more links(in the package link below) - is important, then i'm out of here.

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=327661.0

there are 3(maybe 4 if the first one is porn, i don't know and i don't want to find out) porn links RIGHT THERE, and i don't think SMF cares.  maybe i should have left by now!

whoever is approving these mods probably should not be in the position to do that.

[Aleksi "Lex" Kilpinen]

I say it again - In my opinion, the mods are at the most a little questionable, but nothing bad or unsuitable to be hosted and distributed, since the mod in itself does not offer, or help you to get the adult material in any way. You still need to go the site in question, to get the links needed.
And that is the step where the site in question is responsible for making sure the users are of age.
The mod in itself is perfectly legal for anyone to have and install, and holds no adult material.

The links in the mod description should be removed though, even if they are not live links.

[JBlaze]

Enough is enough. This topic has gotten heated enough already.

We have made a decision about approving this mod and we are sticking to it.

If you have a complaint, please send an email to [email protected]

Thank you.

Topic locked.