Recent Travails of SMF Team and Friends

[Kill Em All]

I was sort of shocked when I read this to be honest, I know with my former clan, I always told them to never bring the public into our problems.

[ardd]

Secrecy is not a good selling point in a community based project.

Public in-fighting is not a good selling point in a community based project.

Imagine going to a store or a restaurant with the intention of getting something....and watching one employee announcing a problem...followed by a debate among the rest of the employees, followed by a referee appointed to sort it out, followed by other announcements regarding problems...from the OTHER employees....etc etc....all in front of the customers. Now, honestly, would you feel comfortable in that environment?  Would you believe in their product? Would you believe in their ability to grind out upgrades and cooperatively work together to provide the public with a pleasant support atmosphere? If the cooks are fighting with the boss...publicly....I sure don't wanna sit down at their table and eat their food.  The atmosphere is part of the package. It truly matters how you present yourself. You are your product. You're the face of the whole operation. Doesn't matter if it's Microsoft, McDonalds, or Joe Nobody's Nifty Soup Factory. There's no place for public hostility or grumbling within any organization.

That's exactly my point.   

Your analogy seems rather private sector centric, none of the examples involved a community based project only commercial ventures. McDonald's as do most large corporations consists of a rigid hierarchy which has no room nor any desire for any type of worker based "democracy" let alone community involvement. I'm not sure Microsoft is the best of examples either as I just can't see SMF as being the Microsoft of forum software or any stepping up to the plate to do volunteer work for Bill Gates.

Let's try a closer analogy, suppose you where doing fund raising for the local food bank and asked how the funds where to be used and you were told that it must remain a secret to avoid public embarrassment. Another scenario might be that you were baking cookies for the PTA and asking if your Gramndmothers recipie  for brownies would remain yours or be copyrighted by the PTA then told that the possibility of the PTA becoming a private concern was a secret and the recipes status would be made known to you as events transpired. 

Would you even donate to a concern who's books and policy's where kept from public view?

[Kenny01]

Another good one from  ardd.

[Antechinus]

Short version, from my perspective.

Management question: How can we get more people involved in the SMF team?

Management answer: By telling them to eff off if they don't like the way we do things.

Now I don't know about you, but personally I find this attitude rather counterproductive.

[C4G-TK]

Short version, from my perspective.

Management question: How can we get more people involved in the SMF team?

Management answer: By telling them to eff off if they don't like the way we do things.

Now I don't know about you, but personally I find this attitude rather counterproductive.

Are you implying that the management is trying to get new people involved with SMF by creating this turmoil and cutting or alienating the talented people who were already assisting them?

[krick]

Works fine in Firefox 3.6 :S

Yes, it's a bug with webkit renders

The same thing happens with the Bolt browser on my Blackberry Curve.

[Antechinus]

No, I am trying to imply that despite their best intentions perhaps their human resources management skills could do with a little refining.

[Tapsa2]

to eff off

As my mother tongue is not english, i would like to know what "eff off" means. Because i would really like to know what this topic is about.
And also a kind request, if possible, all you people with important things to say, please don´t write it with too much difficult words.
Cause i believe that the majority of people using SMF don't speak english as their mother tongue.

[Antechinus]

The term "eff off" is a euphenism. It basically means "go away".

[aishaweb]

to eff off

As my mother tongue is not english, i would like to know what "eff off" means. Because i would really like to know what this topic is about.
And also a kind request, if possible, all you people with important things to say, please don´t write it with too much difficult words.
Cause i believe that the majority of people using SMF don't speak english as their mother tongue.

F**** OFF

[IdanC]

i really hope things will turn out for the best, and this amazing project will go on.

further more, putting your dirty laundry out like that is absolutely brilliant! becoming aware to the issues behind the scenes makes me as a user feel like a part of the project, and my loyalty and my will to contribute increase accordingly.

thank you, and good luck!

p.s.
as someone who's (hopefully) on the verge of managing a very large community, it's very educational to be exposed to such a debate...

[ApplianceJunk]

Don't let SMF die.

[LiroyvH]

Don't let SMF die.

That is most certainly not the intention

[Gary]

It wont die, SMF still has a team behind it.

But I think, that for many, it may not be the same as it used to be.

[Kill Em All]

I think someone should lock this topic. I really don't think there should be a discussion about it here for a few reasons that I won't share publicly.

[krick]

Has anyone on either side of the argument looked at the way the MAME project is run?...
http://mamedev.org/

MAME is a piece of software that emulates arcade machines.  The mame team consists of developers all over the globe contributing new code and bug fixes which are collected and released by a core team of developers.  Nobody is paid, it's strictly volunteer only.  At any given time, there's one "coordinator" who oversees the project and acts as a lead developer and architect.  This coordinator changes from time to time as the team sees fit.

Like SMF, they don't have a traditional open source license, but they seem to keep moving forward with an intermediate update once a week or so, and a full update every month (roughly).

Here's their license...
http://mamedev.org/legal.html

Obviously, the end product is very different, but I think there's still some good ideas about he way that the project is run that could be applied to the SMF.

[forsakenlad]

I think someone should lock this topic. I really don't think there should be a discussion about it here for a few reasons that I won't share publicly.

Well lets keep it open, locking topics (or the mentality behind it) is what has brought everything to this stage at the beginning. Let's trust our community and friends to be mature and prudent

[KensonPlays]

Even if SMF stops existing, will the software stop working? If not, I will use 2.0RC{whatever} if SMF goes down, and never will use vBull unless my dad forces me, for example, which he won't because our family can't afford it, so that is one reason I use SMF...

[Garou]

In the hypothetical event that SMF were to disappear eventually the old versions would develop security holes. I'm of the opinion that SMF has such a huge fan base that there would be some sort of SMF underground that would find a way to keep it going. Probably will never be a need though.

[Orstio]

I think someone should lock this topic. I really don't think there should be a discussion about it here for a few reasons that I won't share publicly.

Do you remember Enron?  Would you rather know when things aren't going so good, or just be surprised by it later when it all falls apart and you're left without support? 

I would think it would be better to be informed, and make decisions based on that information, than have everything secret and not even know whether or not you should be concerned.

Public ignorance is a bad thing.  It is NEVER a good thing.

Keep the public informed.  The only time anything should ever be secret in a project like this is in regards to people's security.  if it's not a security concern, then it shouldn't be a hidden concern.