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Package Manager needs more intelligence

Started by Jade Elizabeth, March 25, 2010, 06:21:52 PM

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Liam.

Quote from: Jade Elizabeth on April 26, 2010, 02:42:01 AM
I fully agree Norv :).


But I don't think the Devs really hang out in feature requests.

Quote from: Arantor on April 26, 2010, 06:43:46 AM
Jade... look at Norv's badge :P

Purely owned ;) But I do still agree with Jade's point at the beginning, the Package Manager is currently lacking a bit...

Arantor

The package manager isn't lacking, it's been incomplete since... forever, if you listen to the former devs...
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

Kill Em All

Quote from: Arantor on April 27, 2010, 03:04:46 PM
The package manager isn't lacking, it's been incomplete since... forever, if you listen to the former devs...
I completely agree!


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Liam.

Quote from: Kill Em All on April 27, 2010, 03:17:45 PM
Quote from: Arantor on April 27, 2010, 03:04:46 PM
The package manager isn't lacking, it's been incomplete since... forever, if you listen to the former devs...
I completely agree!

So do I. If it is incomplete, then it's obviously lacking things... Basic Engrish there ;)

Arantor

No, there's a difference between lacking and incomplete. Something can be finished but lacking things - e.g. SimpleDesk 1.0 final was 'finished' but lacking features that are going into 1.1.
No good deed goes unpunished / All helpful urges should be circumvented

I have something to say: it's better to burn out than to fade away. There can be only one.

Jade Elizabeth

Quote from: Arantor on April 26, 2010, 06:43:46 AM
Jade... look at Norv's badge :P

He doesnt count. He owes me my project LOL.
Once proud Documentation Writer and Help Squad Leader | Check out my new adult coloring career: Color With Jade/Patreon.

Norv

Coming back on this... This was not solved so far. And it still seems wrong to me, to ship two themes by default, and yet accommodate only one of them... Even if it's "the" default theme, and the other should be considered "custom"...

I'd rather see Core distributed separately as custom theme, or SMF accommodate both... To do for 2.1.
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done... until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.

File a security report | Developers' Blog | Bug Tracker


Also known as Norv on D* | Norv N. on G+ | Norv on Github

Jade Elizabeth

Once proud Documentation Writer and Help Squad Leader | Check out my new adult coloring career: Color With Jade/Patreon.

Herman's Mixen

I just want to say as for the package manager - Mods must only provided with an english string into it - if there are more languages are needed - just make addon language packs for that mod, in this case we keep mods simple as it was ment to be , and how the package manager originally was designed ;)
Met vriendelijke groet, The Burglar!

 House Mixes | Mixcloud | Any Intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Former Godfather of our dutch community ;)

Norv

That would be a good idea, too. Unfortunately yeah, we currently have mods bundling all languages they're translated in, and that is by design.

The Burglar,
Would you see package manager helping in some way with additional language files for a mod, or simply letting it all at the modders' choice to package up?
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done... until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.

File a security report | Developers' Blog | Bug Tracker


Also known as Norv on D* | Norv N. on G+ | Norv on Github

Herman's Mixen

I am here to help if there are needed additional language packs, i did this a while back for some mods and had permissions of the original author to make those packs... after a while i decided to make additional packs for the dutch community that's where i am the most active here on SM.org not all dutch members seems to understand the English language very well to translate for them... so that was part of the job i did then... now i want this as a standard feature for all languages other than English so it can be a group of people who make those packs for their language/community

second that a lot of mods can be much smaller in size cause their is just a need for just one extra additional language pack as desired for the language used ;)

so standard we have a mod with just the English strings build into it, the additional packs can be provided for every language which is needed.

Met vriendelijke groet, The Burglar!

 House Mixes | Mixcloud | Any Intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Former Godfather of our dutch community ;)

Norv

On the current customize site, additional files/packs could be added to the downloads... although, there will always be practically a limited number of them for practical reasons I guess.

Instructions in readme file, like "take this and that file or pack, and unzip it in your languages folder" don't seem to support your wish very well, if I understand you correctly? It's very... well, "manual".

How exactly should package manager behave, though? Or the customize site.
To-do lists are for deferral. The more things you write down the later they're done... until you have 100s of lists of things you don't do.

File a security report | Developers' Blog | Bug Tracker


Also known as Norv on D* | Norv N. on G+ | Norv on Github

青山 素子

Perhaps you could add a "smart" option to the packages so that theme and language file edits can be applied independent of the main installation if someone wishes. This may require extending the XML to have a special section for those items.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


Herman's Mixen

The package manger is good as it is right now, only mod authors don't need to build a bunch of language files into their mod just keep it simple one global language English.

Then languages packs can be added as add-ons i will show you how i will do it. I'll come back to you Norv..


Met vriendelijke groet, The Burglar!

 House Mixes | Mixcloud | Any Intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Albert Einstein

Former Godfather of our dutch community ;)

Fustrate

#34
Just adding this on the pile, I'd like to move away from XML towards something more like YAML or JSON. XML is just way too verbose for most things, in my opinion... source code edits, sure, but package-info.xml is ugly as hell.

Hopefully source code edits will be greatly reduced in the future, eliminated for most things in favor of events (hooks).
Steven Hoffman
Former Team Member, 2009-2012

青山 素子

Quote from: Fustrate on November 10, 2011, 01:45:12 PM
Just adding this on the pile, I'd like to move away from XML towards something more like YAML or JSON. XML is just way too verbose for most things, in my opinion... source code edits, sure, but package-info.xml is ugly as hell.

Both JSON and YAML seem bad fits IMO for replacing the package format. Properly done, XML is actually really useful. Sadly, XML is rarely done right and usually turns into garbage.

YAML seems particularly bad as it relies on indentation to express hierarchy. If used for marking code edits, it could make for some messy code. For an info file alone, it might make more sense, but I just don't see it being as friendly to those starting.

JSON just doesn't seem to make sense as a replacement for the code edit stuff.

Either way, if you keep XML for the operations stuff, why would you force a different thing for the package info files?


Quote from: Fustrate on November 10, 2011, 01:45:12 PM
Hopefully source code edits will be greatly reduced in the future, eliminated for most things in favor of events (hooks).

It'll be interesting to see how well the "hooks" hold up in the future as more and more stuff uses them. I forsee a ton of hooks being added to cover every possible scenario resulting in either huge code flow tracing issues and a lot of mess when developing.
Motoko-chan
Director, Simple Machines

Note: Unless otherwise stated, my posts are not representative of any official position or opinion of Simple Machines.


Fustrate

Honestly, if we did source code edits, I would prefer to do them with diffs... but that's going way too far for most SMF programmers.

I think YAML would be more friendly - it's a much more human-friendly format, the only thing you *really* need to remember is to use spaces instead of tabs, although we can easily alter a YAML parser to support tabs.
Steven Hoffman
Former Team Member, 2009-2012

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