Post Moderation -- what am I missing?

[thirdofthree]

I've searched the forums and found a few relevant threads that helped me set up Post Moderation.  Thanks to all the contributors!  With their help, I'm pretty sure I have the board configured such that members of the New User post-count group should require approval before posting.  But it's still not working, and none of the threads I've found via search have provided any insight as to why not.  I think I have it configured properly to require post / reply / avatar approval for the New Users group, with all other groups not needing approval.  I must be missing something; what is it?  Details of the configuration below...

Note:  I have a vague recollection that a week or two ago I deleted the Regular Members membergroup, as it doesn't show up in the Regular Groups list.  But I see many posts in this forum indicating the Regular Members membergroup isn't visible in the Regular Groups list.  So maybe I didn't delete it after all?   

Site:  hxxp:taperssection.com/index.php [nonactive]

SMF Package: SMF 2.0 RC3

Core Features | Post Moderation:  Enabled

Groups

   Guests. 
   Regular Members.  Regular Group.  Visible in Permissions only; not visible in Membergroups.
   New Users.  Post-count Group for all users having < 3 posts.
   All Other Users.  Post-count Group (actually, several groups, but for simplicity's sake reduced to one) for all users having >= 3 posts.

   
Permissions | Settings:  Post-count group permissions ENABLED.


Permissions | Guests | Modify

   The following permissions are CHECKED:

   Search for posts and topics
   Enable ads
   View polls
   
   All other permissions are UNchecked.

Permissions | Regular Members | Modify

   Inherited Group: New Users.

   Among others, the following permissions are CHECKED:

   Post new topics, but hide until approved
   Post replies to their own topic - but require approval
   Post replies to any topic - but require approval
   Post attachments, but hide until approved

   Among others, the following permissions are UNchecked:

   Post new topics
   Post replies to a topic they started
   Post replies to any topic


Permissions | All Other Users | Modify

   Among others, the following permissions are CHECKED:

   Post new topics
   Post replies to a topic they started
   Post replies to any topic
   
   Among others, the following permissions are UNchecked:

   Post new topics, but hide until approved
   Post replies to their own topic - but require approval
   Post replies to any topic - but require approval
   Post attachments, but hide until approved


Permissions | Post Moderation

Guests

   Cannot create new topics
   Cannot create own replies
   Cannot create any replies
   Cannot create attachments
   
Regular Members (and inherited group New Users)

   Can create new topics but requires approval
   Can create own replies but requires approval
   Can create any replies but requires approval
   Can create attachments but requires approval

All Other Users

   Can create new topics
   Can create own replies
   Can create any replies
   Can create attachments


As noted previously, members of New Users group are still able to post without approval.  Any ideas for what I'm missing?

[Spoogs]

set the permission for the 'newbie' post count group to 'Can create new topics but requires approval' as well

[Xarcell]

Make sure that your post-based groups do not have permission to post. Doing so will override the permission profile for that board.

[thirdofthree]

Thanks for the quick replies so far.  I've updated the original post to add a note and version info.

set the permission for the 'newbie' post count group to 'Can create new topics but requires approval' as well

I don't have a "Newbie" post count group.  I have a New Users post-count group (< 3 posts) with topics / replies / avatars all set to requiring approval (inherited from Regular Members).  And I have several other groups for users with >= 3 posts (one for up to 50 posts, another for up to 250 posts, etc.), all of which are set to allow posts / replies / avatars without approval.

Make sure that your post-based groups do not have permission to post. Doing so will override the permission profile for that board.

My New Users post-count group inherits permissions from the Regular Members group, which is set to require approval for posts / replies / avatars.  All other post-count groups have their own permissions and are set to allow posts / replies / avatars without approval.

I've also tried removing the New Users permissions inheritance from Regular Members and setting up unique permissions for the New Users post-count group, specifically requiring approval for posts / replies / avatars.  Same result:  members of the New Users post-count group can still post without approval.

[Xarcell]

That's alot of information to go through from your first post. If your trying to make it so that "new users" need approval for posts, be sure they are not inheriting any posting without approval from some other group. Whether that group be primary, secondary, or even post-based.

[thirdofthree]

That's alot of information to go through from your first post.

Heh...yes, it's a lot.  I tried to provide as much information as possible, since I figure it's easier to provide support if everyone has details about my configuration.  It's basically just at summary of the permission / post-moderation specific configuration.  It looks right to me, but I must be missing something.

If your trying to make it so that "new users" need approval for posts, be sure they are not inheriting any posting without approval from some other group. Whether that group be primary, secondary, or even post-based.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do.  The only permissions I see for the New Users post-count group are inherited from the Regular Members group, which is set to require approval for posts / replies / avatars.

[Xarcell]

Have you changed the board profile appropriately?

[thirdofthree]

Have you changed the board profile appropriately?

:smacks forehead:  That's it!  Many thanks, Xarcell.

[meemzo]

I thought that last answer was the eureka, but it did not work for me.  I have my test member in one group with only nine permissions none of which are topic starting or replying and it lets me just post away.  Any other feedback?

[Arantor]

Your test member is in at least two groups, because it's not physically possible for them to be in only one group.

Take a look at their profile, in there is a 'show permissions' option. See which group is giving them permissions.

[meemzo]

Ok, kinda got it.  My test account is in the post count group, but I can't remove them from there.  Post count group has permissions I don't want to remove obviously, what would be the next step?

And I don't understand that very last reply.

[Kindred]

Do you actually USE the permissions for list count groups?

[meemzo]

In the membergroup settings post count groups "inherit" from regular members, so those permissions show up in the members' permissions

[Kindred]

Well, that's the problem then...  Just turn OFF the post count based permissions.

[meemzo]

Sorry where is this setting?  I want to be clear that if it's IN the post group setup, how so I make sure post group members do inherit the right permissions or is that a given?

Edited:  Found it. Enable permissions for post count based groups is unchecked

[Kindred]

Then it must be some other overlapping group.

Remember, SMF permissions for allow and disallow are inclusive. If ANY group grants a permission, then that user has the permissions

[Ninja ZX-10RR]

The "about membergroups" of this page will make it easier to understand --> http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/SMF2.0:Permissions it's basically what Kindred said but it gives you all the possible combinations so that you can't get it wrong

[meemzo]

I looked over the document to see where my settings are wrong.  I don't have that many groups so it isn't hard to navigate.  I included some screen shots.  But a few things to note.  The new member account is where my test member is and the only other group it is in the post group, that inherits most permissions, but that option is turned off.  The only other group my test account is in is the registered member group, that it has to be in.  As you can see "new member" posting is checked as needing approval.  I feel like regular member could be the sticking point.  I also posted a shot of the test accounts permissions.  As you can see the profile is the post group and the assigned group, no others.

[Ninja ZX-10RR]

Ok let me explain since I did the same thing on my forum.
Remove ALL permissions for regular members and then use permissions for post-based membergroups ONLY. It will be way easier to put a membergroup at 0 posts which will require approval and then make another one at 3 posts without requiring approval and free to post. And yes, it WILL work if you remove posting permissions from the regular members membergroup.
This could be done by denying permissions too, but I personally don't like that way since to me it is pretty much complicated, I couldn't even explain properly how to do it that way.
Also... Seeing permissions like that really sucks, I can't understand a damn thing I am too used to the other layout... :/

[meemzo]

Ok, so that I understand.  In the edit member groups, for each posting group I choose "No unique permission" from the  Inherit Permissions, removing inherit from regular members.  Do I know create the a new member group permissions for posting groups, copying the permissions from registered members?  Sorry if I'm not grasping as quickly as I should.

[Ninja ZX-10RR]

It's not really clear since your English is not entirely correct :/

Let me show a screenshot, here you can see how many permissions there are for each groups, you can easily understand what I mean

[meemzo]

Thank you very much, that did help.  But unfortunately the steps to get to your example eludes me.  I created the posting group, but was unsure of the setting when creating.  Can you check my attachments and tell me what settings should be made when creating that member group?  Please see images where I have questions about the settings.  All of my posting groups have the same permissions so I assume I would only need to create one posting member group.    I know you are probably ready to throttle me for "not getting it".   

FYI: My regular membership still has all the permissions, because the site is live and I don't want to throw my members off, until I know how to do this for sure.

[Ninja ZX-10RR]

You're welcome I'll keep going even if the following will be pretty technical and you will might need to read it a few times.
Those are all post-based membergroups and must have "use unique profile permissions" if you want to the same way I did it.
Note that I added a few permissions for high post-count membergroups but if you don't want to do that you can create X membergroups for post-count and use only 2 profiles, the 1 one like my "newbie" and the other one just create all the membergroups and make the high post-count ones inherit permissions from the "new user" so that they will all have the ability to post and the same "new user" permissions.
To create more membergroups you can create them "based off" (basically this will copy the permissions but it will give you the ability to customize them if you need it) your "new user" membergroup or either inherit the permissions from it (this way you won't be able to customize EACH post-count membergroup, so not the exactly the way I did).
Also note that if you create a lot of membergroups and board profile permissions it might be tricky to set all permissions properly. That's why it took me at least a week to tweak all of them, I was still very noob when I did that so it took me longer than it would take me now.

[meemzo]

So this is the tricky situation.  I set up the layout just as described.  It did take me awhile to realize I had to check "give permission to member groups in settings" for them to show up in general permissions, duh.  I set all the permissions for the posting levels to the same.  My problem is that "new member" is part of a posting group, as is every member on the site, so the permissions didn't really change.  Even though I put "new member" in a member group that requires posting approval it still doesn't work because they are in a posting group that does.  It's a vicious cycle that I don't know how to get out of. 

How does one set up a member to require post approvals?  There must be a way.

[Kindred]

You either must remove them from all membergroups that have post without approval granted....
Or you turn on the ability to use deny... And the , in the restrictive membergroup, you activate, post with approval and deny post without approval.

[meemzo]

It won't allow me to remove them from post membergroups.  Wouldn't they just be a member of the post group again, once they start making more posts?  I did turn on post with approval.  The only way it worked if I also changed that setting in the posting level group the "new member" is part of and I can't remove, but it changed it for everyone in the posting level group, which I don't want.  Nutshell

"New member" in restrictive group = set to needs post approval
"New member" in posting group = set to does not need post approval. every member is in posting levels as default.  can't remove member from this group.

Edited: seems to me posting levels will always win, and since EVERY member is assigned to one of those groups, could this ever work?

[Kindred]

That is why I told you to turn OFF the post count based group permissions.

As long as you leave those permissions on, you are got g to have issues, because you don't seem to understand the interaction between allow, disallow and deny

[meemzo]

Now I'm really confused because I followed, the instructions beforehand that allowed them in the permission group to change the settings as demonstrated above.  Did I misunderstand that part.  I think if I back track it will make sense.  Thanks

[Ninja ZX-10RR]

I think that this will go a LOT faster if you PM me a test account with the rights to edit permissions, I set it up in more or less 5 mins and then you can study how I did that

[meemzo]

You are my savior!  PM'ing you the info.

[Ninja ZX-10RR]

The user just wanted to manually set each user in a post-approval membergroup but using the warning system is *WAY* easier so I just set the permissions properly but since I mistyped the password once I went to the error log to get rid of the error and found this.
Ok, the undefined are all that time crap but the database ones are collations and there are many more. This situation is extremely bad and can lead to crashes and further problems, I *HIGHLY* recommend to work (and ask if necessary) to fix those errors.

[meemzo]

Thanks so much to Ninja.  Everything seems to be working properly.  I do have another thread regarding the error messages http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=527811.0.  Got a little lost with what was being said there so I need to revisit the thread.  But consider the original issue resolve.