How to prevent post count groups over riding permissions of non-post count group

[gareth78]

Hi

I have a rather unique problem (as we all no doubt like to think!). On my forum, smf 1.1.10, we have 1 member group based off post count and that group only removes ads at 250 posts.

We have another member group, which we use like a ban, as it makes permissions the same as guest, and we move people to it manually. We don't ban often, simply because of the Nazi uproar, so we move them to this group as we know it's more frustrating for the end user so they can't post, reply etc. 

However, if we move people to this group and their post count is above 250 it doesn't work, presumably because the post count group supersedes all non-post count groups. (We have tested this, 249 it works 251 it doesn't.)

Without manually editing the idiot's post count, is their another way we can achieve this?

Thanks very much!

[Illori]

do you have the ability to deny permissions enabled? if so then deny all you need in the banned group and there should be no issues.

[gareth78]

I don't.

I do have several other groups though, such as groups that members are also moved to manually, once they become established, that grant users access to other boards.

If I check the deny permissions box, I assumed that it would keep permissions at the level of regular members, as opposed to those now moved to a special group granted access to further boards?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've always been slightly confused by that area. Looking at it now, I'm thinking if I check the name of the group that takes members to guest level, and also check the deny permissions box, everything else all other groups and permissions will be OK yes?

Thanks! 

[Illori]

unless you use the deny permissions in the group nothing will change with existing permissions. play around with it, make a test account and see what works for you.

[gareth78]

I will, it's what I'm trying now, only the whole A, X and D thing is really confusing!

I've always been concerned that it would allow everyday members to start changing groups. What i've done is set all groups as disallow, but set the "quiet ban" group as deny. I don't really understand the "disallow" thing to be honest. Or allow for that matter. 

What I've done does appear to work for disabling the gained benefits of the post count group, however, for some reason users can still post polls, even though in the group permissions polls are set to view = allow and everything else within polls is set to disallow. Do I need to set all to deny rather than disallow? And all to allow for other member groups?

Any help on the difference between disallow and deny would be helpful because the forum docs don't appear to clarify it much and I'm now concerned I have disallowed a raft of benefits to proper users!

Thanks very much for your smokingly quick reply! 

[gareth78]

I think I have it. I go through the various permission for said group and set to deny. (Rather than disallow/allow.)

I then have the member group set as allow, presumably to allow it to deny permissions. This seems to work. All other groups are left as disallow, presumably to disallow the group from changing permissions.

Thanks very much and if this sounds wrong, please let me know!

[Oldiesmann]

To clear up the confusion:
Allow = they can do it unless it's denied by another group they're in
Disallow = they can't do it unless it's allowed by another group they're in
Deny = they can't do it period, regardless of permissions of other groups

[gareth78]

Aha! That makes sense. Thanks! What about when it comes to the actual groups though please? (Member groups > settings > Select permissions for each group. And you can then select A,X,D for each group.)

[Illori]

that is what the A X D stands for so you apply the permission you want either A X or D for each group/permission. this has no effect on if the group can access the permissions area to change it for themselves.

[gareth78]

Wonderful, thanks very much for all your help!

[gareth78]

Well, the problem I thought was solved is not. Posters with more than 250 posts, who are moved to a restrictive group (specials), can still post, despite the group they've been moved to having nearly everything denied.

I'm clearly still confused by the set-up whole A, X, D for privileges within the groups and for the group itself. I feel like an idiot.

Here's some screen-shots. If anyone can help it would be most appreciated! The 2 groups with no names are the post count based groups. 0-250 and 250+

Thanks




With regards to the group A, X, D at group level, whatever it's set to for "specials" (the group with no privilages) they still retain all privileges.

[Illori]

edit the permissions for the group not on that page but the first picture you linked.

[gareth78]

That's what I've done. I have 67 denied permissions (as you can see in the first image), but nothing changes when those also in the post count group get moved into the specials group - they remain unaffected.

I thought it might be to do with the A D X settings in the second image, because it did appear to work when specials was set to allow, but I am utterly confused by that second image!

Thanks

[Illori]

you have not shown your permissions for the regular membergroup nor for the post count based groups so hard to know what you have done.

[gareth78]

Oh I see, sorry. Is that not what it shows in red on the first image in the 2 permissions count columns? Where can I show you what it is you need to see please?

Thanks again, I do appreciate this!

[Illori]

take a screenshot of the permissions page for each group

[gareth78]

Ok, I have taken screen shots of regular members (Image 1) the post count group (image 2) and "specials" (image 3).

Many thanks - is there a buy a beer function here?!

Regular Members


Group granted Ad free viewing (250+ posts)


Restricted Group

[Illori]

your permissions look fine, have you actually checked with an account with those permissions?

[gareth78]

I have. I previously had specials set to "allow" under the permissions settings, second screenshot, in the first post with pictures, and it was working. I then noticed a poster who shouldn't be able to post, posting, so created a new account and put myself through the various groups while editing my post count and discovered the only time specials failed was when my post count meant I was included in the post count group (the middle of those screenshots). I also changed between A, X and D under group permissions.

To be honest, when I posted the screenshots, I thought aha! there's the problem, many of the permission are allow, therefore that's over ruling it, which I am now learning it's not. I'm not an idiot or even unfamiliar with SMF, I've just never used deny before and I'm completely confused by A X D, more within permissions settings than the actual groups.

Thanks

[Illori]

deny should overrule allow in all cases, so i am unsure of what your issue is.