The future of SMF

[Kindred]

what the heck does "turf out" mean?   I have never heard that term... and you use it continually in your post...

ewwww....   just looked it up.  That is not an appropriate phrase to use and I take exception to your continual use of it.

We removed some things based on discussion and analysis.  If you don't like it, then add them back in via mod.   We are not putting this back in or adding any new features at this point.
Decisions were made. You don't like them? Choose a different theme and/or add mods.   plain and simple...   we're not going to please everyone with every choice.

that covers the majority of your complaints.

For your other complaints...

well... for one -- this thread is not for reporting issues with 2.1 nor it it for requesting features...    so, basically, your post doesn't actually belong in this thread at all.
For reporting bugs...    your report is less than useful - even if it was reported in the correct place (which it is not) since you don't indicate what actual version you are testing on.

And as fort "you don't like this". that's nice...   I can say "I do like this" and it has the same effect.   We've made decisions as a team. Overall, I think they have been the correct decisions to move forward. There will always be folks who don't like the new development. That's why we continue to support the old version(s) for a long time after the release of the new ones. So, fine...  you can continue to use 2.0.x until we release 3.0 and make 2.0 end of life.

[Antes]

@jsgrom You need to spend more time with SMF 2.1, most of the things you said has no valid ground. As for news section bug, its fixed quite long ago.

[Oldiesmann]

1. Why you turf out in SMF 2.1 Core Features?

Because it was confusing and made things more complicated.

2. At one time I already mentioned that turf out the sidebar menus in 2.1 is a silly solution, more easily is moving through administration panel when the sidebar menus are set as it is in 2.0, why did you leave from this solution? You want to say me that for you it was hard to do?

Because it was difficult trying to maintain the menu in two separate places and was actually breaking the layout in some places as I recall.

3. Could you add the function to edit name of topic along with all title of answer? Such a possibility is in SMF only with moving the topic to other section. As for me it is needed option in the moderation.

We can look into this.

4. Personally the fact that SMF has modifications isn't disturbing me, but whether the extensions which turn on and off wouldn't be better? Thanks to this any files SMF wouldn't be modified by the particular modification.

We've added dozens of additional integration hooks in 2.1 that will make it easier to add mods without actually editing the files, but it's not easy to write a system that would allow you to do everything without modifying files without rewriting most of SMF.

5. Why did you turf out the system of sending emails messages by SMF? The newest phpbb has this possibility and probably mybb also has this function, so why 2.1 hasn't? In my opinion it's a needed option thanks to which can send emails to users by forum without need to login on service provider own email.

Spam prevention and user privacy.

6. Why in 2.1 did you turf out on such a user profile like in 2.0? You turf out a salutation it mean Hello admin, I know that is a little detail but without his salutation is somehow differently, empty.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here...

Even if you did a profile in popup then there could be these all information which are in profile 2.0. It mean salutation and user name, show unread posts since last visit, show new replies to your posts and is lack of this information: you have 1 message, 0 new, but it also hasn't in basic theme in 2.0, but in others themes is added, so I hope that this function will show in other themes to 2.1 and also in this upper profile is lack information about that the is user or are users to approve like it is in 2.0.

You can modify the popup to display additional details if you want.

7. Is a bug in news bar, if I'll add links to underline they're on whole window, and it shouldn't be like this, the underline of links should be the same like above.

This should be fixed now

.
8. Why added content in News and Newsletters isn't centre? In SMF 2.0 after adding anything it was fall into place like this:

It never has been. You can use the center bbcode tag to accomplish this if you want.

9. I don't like this to pass into private messages it is necessary to click into INBOX button in popup or into the title of the message. Better solution is that which is in 2.0 when I'm clicking into private messages and I'm in the box, in my opinion it is a better solution. The same is regarding to alerts it isn't possible to click into any messages in alerts only have to click in button ALL ALERTS to be in own alerts so as for me it is pointless solution.

When you get a new PM, it will show up in the "My Messages" popup and you can click into the message from there.

10. Why you cannot do or use nicer icons to the panel of administration?

We like the ones currently in use. What did you have in mind that would be better?

11. In my opinion theme curve2 isn't a nice theme, why you not tried that the new theme was better? Why you resigned from curve theme from 2.0? For so many years you are creating 2.1 you focused on the code of this project and on bugs, and you didn't work on theme curve2 which is average. You could leave basic theme from SMF 2.0 which is prettier than it in 2.1 which the better impression than curve2.

If you don't like it you can use another theme.

12. Something's wrong in 2.1 in set the time up for the entire forum, I've the same settings of server on 2.0 and on 2.1 the clock is showing the hour to the back, otherwise why in 2.1 in Profile > Look and Layout hasn't that?

Go to Admin -> Features and Options and make sure the correct server timezone is selected. We did it this way because it's simpler.

13. Why in 2.1 hasn't function NOTIFY and SEND THIS TOPIC?

The "send topic" feature was removed to help combat possible spam. The notification feature is still there but has been rewritten - you can now choose how to get notified for each board and topic instead of just choosing one option for everything.

14. An additional function would be useful in allocating the post so that it is possible to set where exactly the allocated post is supposed to be in a new topic, because currently to merge the allocated post it works on hours and dates of adding this post.

This is not going to happen. SMF has always sorted posts based on when they were posted and adding an option to specify where the post should appear within a topic will make things extremely complicated.

[SleePy]

4. Personally the fact that SMF has modifications isn't disturbing me, but whether the extensions which turn on and off wouldn't be better? Thanks to this any files SMF wouldn't be modified by the particular modification.

We've added dozens of additional integration hooks in 2.1 that will make it easier to add mods without actually editing the files, but it's not easy to write a system that would allow you to do everything without modifying files without rewriting most of SMF.

Just to top that off, SimpleDesk, a helpdesk customization for SMF, has in works a version for SMF 2.1 that requires 0 edits to the SMF code base to work.  By working with all the new hooks and getting a couple added, I was able to make this happen.  This is no simple feat, but its great to show a customization as big as SimpleDesk is able to work without modifying a single line of code.

I expect more customizations to follow suit and reduce or remove manual edits they make.

[jsx]

what the heck does "turf out" mean?   I have never heard that term... and you use it continually in your post...

ewwww....   just looked it up.  That is not an appropriate phrase to use and I take exception to your continual use of it.

We removed some things based on discussion and analysis.  If you don't like it, then add them back in via mod.   We are not putting this back in or adding any new features at this point.
Decisions were made. You don't like them? Choose a different theme and/or add mods.   plain and simple...   we're not going to please everyone with every choice.

that covers the majority of your complaints.

For your other complaints...

well... for one -- this thread is not for reporting issues with 2.1 nor it it for requesting features...    so, basically, your post doesn't actually belong in this thread at all.
For reporting bugs...    your report is less than useful - even if it was reported in the correct place (which it is not) since you don't indicate what actual version you are testing on.

And as fort "you don't like this". that's nice...   I can say "I do like this" and it has the same effect.   We've made decisions as a team. Overall, I think they have been the correct decisions to move forward. There will always be folks who don't like the new development. That's why we continue to support the old version(s) for a long time after the release of the new ones. So, fine...  you can continue to use 2.0.x until we release 3.0 and make 2.0 end of life.

Modifications like these probably won't show up. I personally like SMF for me it's the best free software for putting the own forum I just expressing my opinion about that what I don't like in 2.1, new version seems to be truncated version.

So write me where I can report bugs except github or to ask for new functions to 2.1, because frankly I have no idea. For you it should be plain and simple that I'm testing latest version 2.1 downloaded directly from yours github.

It's not like this that I don't like 2.1 completely but I don't understand some of yours decisions in relation to 2.1, because in 2.0 everything is simpler and it's my opinion. Maybe I got used to 2.0 too much.

SMF 2.1 with such a slow degree of the development will come out probably at the end of this year or later what I don't wish you, and 3.0 in 2020.

Because it was difficult trying to maintain the menu in two separate places and was actually breaking the layout in some places as I recall.

And why in elkarte side menu is available? This software rose from SMF 2.1, so why there can do it and in 2.1 not? Side menu is more comfortable than pull-down menu.

We can look into this.

Thanks.

We've added dozens of additional integration hooks in 2.1 that will make it easier to add mods without actually editing the files, but it's not easy to write a system that would allow you to do everything without modifying files without rewriting most of SMF.

All right but do you saw how extensions are working in phpbb 3.1? There normally you're sending the extension to the server and then you enable them, it isn't overwriting any files, you can disable them.

Spam prevention and user privacy.

I understand it, but you could leave this function only for administrators. At present on my forum I disabled sending emails for everyone expect me as administrator so if I want to send email to someone through the forum I'm just sending and this function will be missing to me if I'll someday update my forum to 2.1.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here...

You can modify the popup to display additional details if you want.

In what way? Where it is possible to modify popup?

This should be fixed now

Still it isn't fixed. Last modification 2.1 on github was 7 days ago and this bug here on forum I reported 10 days ago.

It never has been. You can use the center bbcode tag to accomplish this if you want.

Impossible. I added the text or links without no centering and it automatically is shown in the middle, it's in 2.0 you can check it. So probably in 2.0 it was a bug that the added content automatically was set in the middle and in 2.1 you fixed it.

When you get a new PM, it will show up in the "My Messages" popup and you can click into the message from there.

Need to click into title of private message in order can go into this message to read or into the INBOX button and it's a little bit annoying but I understand that it's a popup but in my opinion it shouldn't be in popup but it is only my opinion. In popup could be only alerts which informed about coming private message or of other notifications.

We like the ones currently in use. What did you have in mind that would be better?

In my opinion icons for: Support and Credits, News and Newsletters, End Admin Session, Features and Options, Anti-Spam, Languages, Current Theme, Themes and Layout, Modification Settings, Search, Search Engines, Members, Membergroups, Permissions, Registration, Warnings, Ban List, Scheduled Tasks, Logs they could be better, it is only my opinion, rest of icons which I didn't list they are better, look more professional they are prettier, I have such a feeling, that these icons which I listed are wacky. Because the icon with information in the color blue isn't much good. Icon for news could be different, it can also be newspaper, but I have other vision for this icon. Icon of end of the session is gray. The icon of sprocket wheel could be, but in internet I saw prettier. The padlock for the spam is average. Generally speaking I have no idea why you used padlocks for the tab spam. The icon of languages is average. Icons for theme are gray. The icon for managing of modifications hasn't anything to do with the modification, it looks like puzzle. The icon of loupe is gray, I saw better. The icon for the searching engines is gray. Icons of Members, Membergroups aren't so bad but could be better. The icon of keys for Permissions is gray. What keys have common to Permissions? The icon for Registration could be better, this blue stick man is gray. Icon Warnings is wack, this icon looks like traffic lights, change it. Icon of Ban List is ugly change her. The Scheduled Tasks icon could be better. In drop-down menu you used smaller other icons, they are better than the ones bigger.

If you don't like it you can use another theme.

I spent a lot of time with this theme and isn't so bad, although could be better, it what on top of I don't like in curve2 it's orange contour in My Community - Info Center somehow for me this color doesn't match to the blue color. And I really don't understand what you added icons up to at: Home, Search, Admin, Moderate, Members, Logout.

Go to Admin -> Features and Options and make sure the correct server timezone is selected. We did it this way because it's simpler.

I've set the right time of server in admin panel for whole forum and when I'm log on then the main clock on main page show a one hour to back. In my profile format of time I've set as default for forum. In Timezone is automatically set [UTC] UTC and it causes showing the hour to the back, but when I choose my region from list then the hour will be correct. If somebody will be want to put the own forum on 2.1 after installing software as the administrator will be has a set wrong time for his account. You should fix it, because for me it looks like the bug. It should working in this way that after change the time of the server for the entire forum to all users including the account of administrator a time will change on correct, because now it doesn't work in this way. In 2.0 it works correctly, if the time of the server of the forum is set on UTC all users will have this time, but when I will change the time of the server on correct then for all accounts automatically will set the correct time.

[Kindred]

almost all of what you posted is personal preference -- and I happen to (personally) disagree with your contentions regarding the theme, layout, icons, etc...
but that is the wonder of themes and templates and icons... you can make our get a theme or icons that YOU like and not worry about what "the default" is.

2.1 is basically feature locked at this point. New features are unlikely to be added, since we are TRYING to actually get a release made -- and any time a new feature is added, it adds more time for development, testing and templating.

bugs can be reported on GitHub (preference) or in the bug reports board here...

As for why elkarte does something and we don't... why not ask them.   We decided to do it this way. We felt this was a better choice...  they may have done something else -- but that has no bearing on our choices.

[jsx]

almost all of what you posted is personal preference -- and I happen to (personally) disagree with your contentions regarding the theme, layout, icons, etc...

There are 30 icons in the panel of administration where half of them looks worse, weak than other so I wrote here my opinion, cannot be this way, that everyone will be praising 2.1. If I wanted I'll change to myself these icons on which I like more, but it that's not the point, I point you out that the half of these icons is sucks. So if you don't have a graphic designer which would create all icons professional don't change them. Is a full of free icons just have to devote the time and to find them on free sites, but of course why isn't it? Since such a children's icons can be. I don't know how it is possible to tip icon smile into side or choose traffic lights icon on warnings icon.

[Illori]

it is your personal opinion that the icons dont look good. that does not mean that everyone agrees with you. if you dont like them, when you run 2.1 you can change them to what you do like. we cant please everyone.

[Kindred]

I am sorry that you hate the icons.

I happen to like them... and I do not believe that are childish or unprofessional at all.

As we have stated, a number of times...  if you don't like them then use your own -- no one is FORCING you to use the default icons or the default theme.

[Siirist]

Hi,

I know nothing about all this EXCEPT that writing all those .phps so that they work together harmoniously has to be a HUGE TASK!!

I would rather wait even as many as 6-10 years to get something that works!

For a reference on releasing versions prematurely see Microsoft Windows. From MS Windows 95 to current they are constantly building patches so that the version will operate as intended.

To SMF I say "Thank you for taking your time and getting it right".

May all find what they are looking for through Themes, MODs, or by uploading images and then modifying the appropiate phps to get the desired effect.

Be Well,
Siirist

[OCJ]

I think it is always difficult managing such a large group of volunteers but SMF needs a clear system for development decisions - a democratic way of deciding about contributions and future ideas. If needed then a committee to decide a higher level road map.

A lot of developers have left and they should address that problem more openly (instead of just saying it takes time to get releases out).

I would rather wait even as many as 6-10 years to get something that works!

The main problem is not getting it right - the problem is the turn over of staff (volunteers) is too high.

I wonder how many people think this:
"I would rather move on and get something that is 6-10 years ahead in development."

[Suki]

Allow me to correct that. Perhaps a little too blunt since I'm on the phone.

It's been a while since there was a change in the development team.  Almost 4 years.

Sure there was issues but all of that has largely been put behind.  There's a solid group of devs who contribute constantly,  there's motivation and there's will and perhaps more importantly there's hope and confidence.
So yeah we had problems,  sure we had issues yeah some people left,  this OK but that's all in the past,  we have been pretty stable for a while and I'm pretty sure it will continue that way.

I really don't know from where you're getting your info from but really thigs aren't  as bad as you think you are. But don't take. My word for granted go and check SMF's github.com repo and see for yourself.

[Kindred]

Ummm.. We have a clear system for development decisions.

And yes, while turn over was an issue... We have never hidden it...   So, both of your suggestions seem disingenuous.

Also...  While turn over was an issue, it is not and never has been "the problem". We have a good crew of developers right now who are working on getting it right... And they have been doing a bang up job moving down that path.

[OCJ]

Developers was probably a bad choice of word.

I would change that to say the number of contributors has declined. I still think SMF development has slowed down a lot and it is taking too much time to release new versions (compared to other similar open source forums). That's just my opinion and those replying have theirs.

SMF 2.0 beta 1 to beta 4 in 1 year.
SMF 2.1 beta 1 to beta 2 in  8 months.


SMF 2.0 Gold  - June 11, 2011.

I think most people would have expected SMF 3.0 by now. I have heard many people say it is very unlikely we will see SMF 2.1 until 2017.
Nearly six years to get from 2.0 to 2.1.

When you look at themes that is a very very long time.  SMF default theme should by now look as good as what Elkarte are using - simple and clean, mobile friendly out of the box.
Personally I do not like Curve very much and there should have been some kind of  'colorizer' included with it. The reaction to mobile friendly sites and themes was extremely slow at SMF. The ad hoc approach releasing a (still beta) mod for it about sums it up.

[Kindred]

Ok... so -- anyone who is saying "you won't see 2.1 until 2017 is a naysayer and has no actual input into or out of the actual team doing the work"   so-   don't believe them. We never give out dates...

as for Elkarte... good luck to them. personally, I intensely dislike their default theme.  So, there you go...   you like it, I hate it... but you don't see me over there demanding that they change the default to suit my desires.

[OCJ]

but you don't see me over there demanding that they change the default to suit my desires.

I am not 'demanding' anything. I am just making a point about development.

The main point there about the template, which you didn't address, was that the default template wont have changed for 6 years. That is an incredibly long time for themes and templates.
Mobile friendly themes have been used for over 3 years now.
In this area SMF has fallen behind.

[Illori]

the default theme for SMF 2.1 is already responsive. there is a mod available for SMF 2.0. what else do you want?

[Kindred]

and there are, at this point dozens of responsive themes for SMF 2.0.x

[OCJ]

and there are, at this point dozens of responsive themes for SMF 2.0.x

what else do you want?

but you don't see me over there demanding that they change the default to suit my desires.

I doubt there are 'dozens'... so you say there are what, 30-50 themes that are responsive... rolling over 

The recent ones that were provided have plenty of issues with the menu - do not work properly.


I made a point that development has slowed a lot (The future of SMF) and the theme is well outdated.
The replies are very negative - suggestions of 'stop complaining', or 'what do you want'.

It sounds like any critical comment is not wanted. So sorry, SMF is wonderful, best thing since sliced bread. Dont even bother changing it. One 100% satisfied user (of  another forum soon).

[feline]

The SMF 2.1 Theme is mobile ready (say's google  )