Deactivate/Activate IP-Logging and inaccurate or rounded posting times

[Tobias Claren]

Hello.

There is a tutorial to disable the IP logging:
wirspeichernnicht de/content/view/37/24/

Please build a switch (or there is a mod?).

In addition:
Give the ability to round up or round off automatically every post entry time.
E.G. for fifteen minutes. On the half hour. On the hour. Every three hours. For the day, etc.

Or just a box for a numeric value (minutes).
Current default is every minute.

This makes it more difficult for the web host (under pressure from above) to give IPs from Post writers out (the times compared with serverloggs).

[Arantor]

That tutorial may or may not be accurate in all cases, I can think of some where depending on how you implement it, it won't be.

Rounding up/down the post time can cause other complications because posts are not ordered by time, but by creation order, which means rounding them might make them look out of order.

I am curious as to why you want to disable IP logging; you won't be able to ban users by IP or hostname if you do.

[Tobias Claren]

Posts are sorted by their number (and not by date), right?

I do not want to ban IPs. IPs are dynamic.



Example:

You want to run a forum for announcements of suicide (and suicide notes).
This is legal in Germany (also effective methods tips). If the police would call me urgently, I would hang up.
This is my right. It is the right of everyone to kill themselves.
Although this is the free will of the visitors (and there human right), the police tried to prevent this.

Another example:
Insulting or defamatory of any person or politician etc..
Look (185-189): http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm [nofollow] # 185
In the U.S. it is usually legal. But in Germany a crime.

Or blasphemy. In Germany, a criminal offense.
Look (166): http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm [nofollow] # 166

Or "Rewarding and Approving Crimes".
Look (140): http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm [nofollow] # 140

Or "Disparagement of the State and its Symbols":
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm [nofollow] # 90a
Use your own German flag in public as a dog toilet (the dog from a good citizen can not ****** on the street), and you stand in court maybe.
Can understand a U.S. citizen, that this should not be punished?
Patriotism or not, that's freedom of expression. This does not appeal to everyone.


Btw, here my not finished list with bad/critical german laws (copy and paste):
Here the (human) translated Criminal Code of Germany:
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm [nofollow]


Also foreign flags are protected by law.
But only if Germany has diplomatic relations with this country.

This is never okay.
In America, it never managed to make it a criminal offense.
It was tried again and again (proposed "Flag Desecration Amendment").
If you are in Germany, burned a U.S. flag, you will possibly prosecuted. Even if you are a U.S. citizen. See StGB §104 (below).

If you are denigrating sings a version of the German national anthem, you can also be prosecuted.


Critical (or partially critical) German laws:

* Section 70 - Order of Prohibition of Engagement in a Profession:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P70 [nofollow]
==================================================

(* Maybe §71: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P70a [nofollow])
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


THIRD TITLE - ENDANGERING THE DEMOCRATIC STATE UNDER THE RULE OF LAW
==================================================


* Section 84 - Continuation of a political party declared unconstitutional:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P84 [nofollow]
==================================================

* Section 85 - Violation of a ban on forming an association:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P85 [nofollow]
==================================================

* Section 86 - Dissemination of propaganda material of unconstitutional organisations:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P86 [nofollow]
==================================================

* Section 86a - Using symbols of unconstitutional organisations:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P86a [nofollow]

i: Use of the swastika, SS symbol and other (but not the KKK symbol...).
An American woman sent "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" to her nephew in Germany.
6 months after the sequestration by the customs (nephew thought it would have been lost on shipping), the German police rang on the early morning at the door (by the nephew), and made a house search.
==================================================

* Section 90 - Defamation of the President of the Federation:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P90 [nofollow]

i: Its like "lèse-majesty"
==================================================

* Section 90a - Defamation of the state and its symbols:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P90a [nofollow]

i: Flag (Country and Staates of Germany), national colors, national anthem...
This is the same like the controversal "Insulting Turkishness" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_%28Turkish_Penal_Code%29 [nofollow]). But the german punishment is higher.
==================================================

* Section 90b - Anti-constitutional defamation of constitutional organs:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P90b [nofollow]

i: Criticism of politicians or Constitutional Court judges can be dangerous.
==================================================

(* maybe StGB §91:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P91 [nofollow])
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER TWO - TREASON AND ENDANGERING EXTERNAL NATIONAL SECURITY
==================================================


Questionable laws:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Section 95 -Disclosure of state secrets with intent to cause damage:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P95 [nofollow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Section 96 - Treasonous espionage; spying on state secrets:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P96 [nofollow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Section 97 - Disclosure of state secrets and negligently causing danger:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P97 [nofollow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Section 97a - Disclosure of illegal secrets:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P97a [nofollow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Section 97b - Disclosure based on mistaken assumption that secret is illegal:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P97b [nofollow]

i: This is very crude

Sum: No whiste blowing, no .....?!?
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER THREE - OFFENCES AGAINST FOREIGN STATES
==================================================


* Section 103 - Defamation of organs and representatives of foreign states:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P103 [nofollow]

i: You said "Bush is criminal", they (can) accuse you...
==================================================

* Section 104 - Violation of flags and state symbols of foreign states:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P104 [nofollow]
- Section 104a - Conditions for prosecution:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P104a [nofollow]
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER FIVE - OFFENCES AGAINST THE NATIONAL DEFENCE
==================================================


* Section 109 - Avoiding draft by mutilation:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P109 [nofollow]
* Section 109a - Avoiding draft by deception:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P109a [nofollow]

i: "compulsory military service" is currently suspended, but not abolished.
==================================================

* Section 109d - Disruptive propaganda against the Armed Forces:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P109d [nofollow]

i: Criticism of the "Bundeswehr" (German Armed Forces) can be dangerous.
==================================================

Very questionable law:
* Section 109g - Taking or drawing pictures etc endangering national security:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P109g [nofollow]
==================================================

Critical law:
* Section 109h -Recruiting for foreign armed forces:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P109h [nofollow]
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER SIX - RESISTANCE AGAINST STATE AUTHORITY
==================================================


Critical law:
* Section 111 - Public incitement to crime:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P111 [nofollow]

i: E.G. Palins incitement to a hack of Wikileaks, or...
?: Is there a US equivalent for "Public incitement to commit crimes"? "Abolished": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement [nofollow]
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER SEVEN - OFFENCES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER
==================================================


Very controversial in Germany:
* Section 129a - Forming terrorist organisations:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P129a [nofollow]

i: this clause is also used by the German government (judiciary, intelligence ...) against dissidents.
==================================================

* Section 130 - Incitement to hatred:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P130 [nofollow]

i: Also "Hate Speech".
Because of these laws are German neo-nazis (by international standards) dissidents.

Most Germans, most of the politicians, the police union(s) and German do-gooder find it completely normal, that people are punished (Jail) for the denial of the Holocaust, insulting groups, etc.
And also the use of symbols such as the swastika (section 86).


==================================================

* Section 130a - Attempting to cause the commission of offences by means of publication:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P130a [nofollow]

i: Also an "Elastic Clause"
==================================================

* Section 131 - Dissemination of depictions of violence:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P131 [nofollow]
==================================================

* Section 140 - Rewarding and approving of offences:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P140 [nofollow]

i: You may not approve of any crime.
Approval of crime is morally justifiable? It does not matter, it belongs to freedom of speech!
- You say that the public burning of the German flag was good (eg a comment on a YouTube video), you end up (potentially) in court.
- You say publicly that the insult of the President was good, you end up (potentially) to court.
- A German judge filed a complaint against Angela Merkel, after she expressed joy over the death of Bin Laden.
- A user of an unemployment forum was prosecuted because he publicly (in the forum) understand (but not agree) for a knife attack on a job center staff member found:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gegen-hartz.de%2Fnachrichtenueberhartziv%2F0344e199e81136d04.php&act=url [nofollow]
==================================================

* Section 145c - Violation of a professional disqualification:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P145c [nofollow]
i: See Section 70
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER ELEVEN - OFFENCES RELATED TO RELIGION AND IDEOLOGY
==================================================


* Section 166 - Defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P166 [nofollow]

i: "blasphemy clause"

=> A international known victim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_van_H [nofollow]:
Blog entry ("Here's a nauseating story from Germany...):
http://searchlight-germany.blogspot.com/2006/02/german-blasphemy-law-convict.html [nofollow]
Blog entry: http://theodicies.blogspot.com/2006/02/german-blasphemy-law-intolerant-of.htmlhttp://goo.gl/hOZDk [nofollow]

There are other cases:
Punkrockband "WIZO" and his T-Shirts with a crucified pig (picture: http://goo.gl/EZohW [nofollow]): http://goo.gl/O4s84 [nofollow]
"Lattengustl" = Lath Gustav (the crucifix has 2 wooden "lath", and "Gustl" is bavarian for Gustav and means [here] Jesus)
"Dr William Furter" is the unnecessary and Wrong translation of Dr. Wilhelm Gegenfurter. "K" means "plaintiff".

Do you remember the Danish Mohammed caricatures?:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffredalanmedforth.blogspot.com%2F2006%2F02%2Fbilderverbot-west.html [nofollow]
A German secret service threatens the operator of a website because of the Mohammed cartoons.
Since this does not remove the cartoons, he is accused.
And 1&1 blocked the website.
Reason: The Iranian Embassy had protested to Germany.

Also Mohammed caricatures ("Dangerous for the public peace"):
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tagesspiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2Fgefaehrlich-fuer-den-oeffentlichen-frieden%2F781008.html [nofollow]

There are always complaints against the Cologne Carnival (like Mardi Gras) and Carnival meetings (in theaters).
Here is one of these storys:
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ksta.de%2Fhtml%2Fartikel%2F1138712361491.shtml [nofollow]
And here an older:
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rp-online.de%2Fpanorama%2Fdeutschland%2Fjustiz%2FStaatsanwalt-ermittelt-gegen-Koelner-Stunksitzung_aid_238687.html [nofollow]

Other Cases:
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibka.org%2Fartikel%2Fmiz94%2Fp166_1.html [nofollow]

==================================================

* Section 167 - Disturbing the exercise of religion:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P167 [nofollow]

i: This is not good behavior, but for that it needs no extra law!
==================================================

* Section 167a - Disturbing a funeral:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P167a [nofollow]

i: This is not good behavior, but for that it needs no extra law!
==================================================

"defamatory mischief" is just to look critically:
* Section 168 - Desecration of graves etc:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P168 [nofollow]

i: This is not good behavior, but for that it needs no extra law!
By the way: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7534905.stm [nofollow] <= As a leftist I think that this (Prosecution of right-wing people) is wrong.
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER TWELVE - OFFENCES RELATED TO THE PERSONAL STATUS REGISTRY, MARRIAGE AND THE FAMILY
==================================================


Critical Law:
* Section 173 - Incest:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P173 [nofollow]

i: This law has been criticized by lawyers and in the EU.
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER THIRTEEN - OFFENCES AGAINST SEXUAL SELF-DETERMINATION
==================================================


Inequality:
* Section 183 - Exhibitionism:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P183 [nofollow]

i: It only affects men!
==================================================

Partially critical law (decide for itself):
* Section 184 - Distribution of pornography:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P184 [nofollow]
==================================================

In one point critical law:
* Section 184b - Distribution, acquisition and possession of child pornography:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P184b [nofollow]

i: Nothing against the paragraph itself, but it also will be banned and punished purely fictional texts, drawings, computer animations etc.
This is criticized by some lawyers. And e.g. in the United States not punishable.
German politicians, police unions and do-godders demanded punishment for those who participate in Second Life on pedophile role playing (among adults!).
==================================================

* Section 184c - Distribution, acquisition and possession of juvenile pornography:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P184c [nofollow]

i: Partly in the population and among lawyers disputed.
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER FOURTEEN - LIBEL AND SLANDER
==================================================


* Section 185 - Insult:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P185 [nofollow]

* Section 186 - Defamation:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P186 [nofollow]

* Section 187 - Intentional defamation:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P187 [nofollow]

* Section 188 - Defamation of persons in the political arena:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P188 [nofollow]

i: Another nauseating section for the special protection of politicians.
In the U.S., celebrities and politicians, "fair game" are. That's a good thing. They have poor chances to complain against insult and defamation. That's a good thing.

* Section 189 - Violating the memory of the dead:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P189 [nofollow]

i: Gay died of cancer: the neighbors celebrated with a barbeque
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shortnews.de%2Fid%2F438215%2FHomosexueller-starb-an-Krebs-Nachbar-feierte-das-mit-einem-Grillfest [nofollow]

There was a man (maybe this man in the last link) who did not like his neighbor. A neighborhood dispute.
When the neighbor died, he was playing happy music in public, let balloons rise and expressed his joy over the death of this neighbor. The mourners saw this. He was convicted because of it.



General i: The protagonists of 'infantile cult of honor - The libel laws in Germany:
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Frechtsanwalt-andreas-fischer.de%2F__oneclick_uploads%2F2010%2F01%2Fdie-beleidigungsgesetze-in-deutschland.pdf [nofollow]
20% of all german trials are libel and slander! Not civil law, but criminal law.
Please read the pdf!
==================================================

Section 190 - Proof of truth by criminal judgment:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P190 [nofollow]

i: There is a section that defines a judgment as infallible. As court decisions were natural laws.
After this megalomaniac definition, there are no innocent convicts.

An analogy:
"The Pope is always infallible".

==================================================

* Section 192 - Insult despite proof of truth:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P192 [nofollow]

i: Heavy! You can be convicted for a proven true statement over an other person! Disgusting!
Are there U.S. Americans who find this law good?.....?
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER FIFTEEN - VIOLATION OF PRIVACY
==================================================


* Section 201 - Violation of the privacy of the spoken word:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P201 [nofollow]

i: It is forbidden under penalty, to secretly record conversations.
You have been accused falsely of a crime? You can not legally make any audio recording as proof of innocence.
This will not be admitted in court, and you will prosecuted for it.

But if there is an advantage for Germany (repression of dissidents...), such recordings can also be evaluated.
In Germany there is no "fruit of the poisonous tree" law.
There is no equality before the law.

==================================================

* Section 202c - Acts preparatory to data espionage and phishing:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P202c [nofollow]

i: In Germany, a heavily criticized very controverse paragraph! E.G. by the Chaos Computer Club ("CCC"), IT experts, lawyers etc.
Look "2. Software for the purpose of the commission of such an offence, shall be liable to imprisonment of not more than one year or a fine."

This is any software with which one can penetrate into computers. Even the possession (and download) is a criminal offense.
Even the possession and use, to find vulnerabilities in their own computers is illegal.

An analogy:
You can cut a steak with a knife, but you can also stab someone.
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER SIXTEEN - OFFENCES AGAINST LIFE
==================================================


* Section 216 - Killing at the request of the victim; mercy killing:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P216 [nofollow]

i: Actually, the helpers get around the law by assisted suicide.
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-04-04/world/germany.euthanasia_1_suicide-machine-terminally-german-politicians?_s=PM:WORLD [nofollow]
==================================================

* Section 218 - Abortion:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P218 [nofollow]

i: OK, in reality, practically every (?) woman can perform an abortion (section 218a).
==================================================

* Section 218a - Exception to liability for abortion:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P218a [nofollow]

i: But that's not enough.
Women are committed to a consultation.
Today, there is probably no risk of an abortion by a layman.

There is also no special law, that forbids laymen to perform medical operations.
==================================================

And:
* Section 218b - Abortion without or under incorrect medical certification:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P218b [nofollow]
==================================================

And:
* Section 218c - Violation of medical duties in connection with an abortion:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P218c [nofollow]
==================================================

Then unnecessary:
* Section 219 - Counselling of the pregnant woman in a situation of emergency or conflict:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P219 [nofollow]
==================================================

Infringement of personal freedom:
* Section 219a - Advertising services for abortion:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P219a [nofollow]

i: We do not have to like it, but I see a prohibition critical.
What if I want to advertise for abortion, as a private person without a profit motive?
I do not let it forbid me from legislators. Although it would be tasteless.
==================================================

* Section 219b - Distribution of substances for the purpose of abortion:


i: In the german original: "Inverkehrbringen von Mitteln zum Abbruch der Schwangerschaft" or "Marketing of resources for termination of pregnancy".
"Mittel" are not only substances, but also objects. Also, machines, tools, etc..
==================================================

* Section 228 - Consent:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P228 [nofollow]

i: In the german original "violates public policy" is "gegen die guten Sitten verstößt".
A alternative translation would be "violates good morals".
This is the classic definition of an "elastic clause".....
Hooligans break the law when they meet to fight? There are those appointments!
Morality is not fixed. I mean, many of these laws are immoral.

==================================================

* Section 231 - Taking part in a brawl:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P231 [nofollow]

i: It is critical that a fight with death is always punished.
No exclusion of a consensual fight with death.
It would be consulted before a fight, whether an intentional killing is in order.
This is of course an extreme example, but it would be consensus accepted death.
==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER EIGHTEEN - OFFENCES AGAINST PERSONAL FREEDOM
==================================================


Is used against dissidents:
* Section 240 - Using threats or force to cause a person to do, suffer or omit an act:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P240 [nofollow]

i: You threaten someone that you tell the truth about him?
If you are unlucky, you get punished for it. The German Judges, prosecutors and lawyers call this "Threat of appreciable harm".
==================================================

* Section 241a - Causing the danger of political persecution by informing on a person:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P241a [nofollow]

i: Not wrong, but according to the wording is any complaint of section 86 and 130 a violation of this law.
Quote: "Whosoever provides information about another or transmits such information and thereby exposes him to the danger of political persecution indicated in subsection (1) above shall incur the same penalty...."
The prosecution of neo-Nazis because of their statements, gestures and use of symbols is definitely a political suspicion.
And the punishing is definitely political persecution.
The German government does not follow its own law.....



==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER TWENTY-TWO - FRAUD AND EMBEZZLEMENT
==================================================


Number 3 is more than critical:
* Section 263a - Computer fraud:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGBengl_000P263a [nofollow]

i: You program a program like Sub7? Criminal! you make "BackTrack" (Linux "Hackertool"-Disc)? Criminal!
So it is also forbidden, to write such software for a test of your, or the computer of your boss (penetration hacking test).
Number 3 is practically the same like Number 2 in 202c, but 3 years instead 1 year... Strange!
Article: http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fsecurity%2Fmeldung%2FScharfe-Kritik-am-neuen-Hackerparagraphen-132852.html [nofollow]

Quote:
"Given a reference of the far-knit section 129a of the Criminal Code against the formation of terrorist organizations on the new section 303b to see bloggers from the ranks of the CCC , which for a critical and creative engagement with information technology as part of an hacker ethics occurs, not only for security testing with one foot in the jail are. Rather, they fear that the CCC or loose groups of security professionals could soon be prosecuted as a terrorist group."

==================================================
==================================================
==================================================


CHAPTER TWENTY-EIGHT - OFFENCES CAUSING A COMMON DANGER
==================================================

And so on..... I'm not finished.
But the most important is called.

[Arantor]

Posts are sorted by their number (and not by date), right?

Correct. But if you have two posts one rounded up, one rounded down, it might confuse people.

Can understand a U.S. citizen, that this should not be punished?

I don't know, I'm not a US citizen. In any case, I'm not trying to judge, I just needed to understand why you wanted to do this in case it was not the best thing for you to do. (Sort of like the digital equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath.)

Here's the thing: if it's illegal in your country, I cannot - as much as I would wish to - in good conscience aid you to break the law, even if I personally disagree with that law. I understand why you want to do it, I believe that it would be right for you to be able to discuss it, but at the same time I cannot in good conscience aid you in breaking a law, whether the law is misguided or not, whether I agree with the law or not, because by the *exact same logic* if I willingly aid you in developing this, I also inadvertently aid people who develop forums for child porn etc.

I'm sure you can understand my problem here, as much as I understand and sympathise with your situation.

[Tobias Claren]

What do I do?
These are examples. My visitors should not be censored from me.

I'm sorry, but child pornography is the killer argument of "they steal our jobs"-persons ;-D .

Everyone is a suspect in a real child pornography forum.
The web host still has all the IPs in its server log.
But there are web hosts that do not store IP addresses (or switch off if desired).
Professional child molesters do not need this function.
Child porn pros use a dedicated server and disable the logging.

Excuse me honest, but that's a bad argument.

You can use a kitchen knife stabbing someone.
Kitchen knives should be banned?
"93% of the people who went AMOK ate bread withing the 24hrs before their killing.. so BREAD is dangerous.. please forbid it!"



Nobody here brokes a german (or an ethical) law, if he makes possible to deactivate the IP-Logging (OK, this isnot the problem, we have the totorial), or make the post entry time inaccurate.
On the contrary, it is forbidden under German law, to log the IP.
Data Protection Act, Telemedia Act ... This is civil law. You can get in trouble, if you log IPs without a declaration.
But it is unclear, if it is allowed to login, if you point this out.
Maybe it is generally forbidden.

I ask the crowd (to make a mod) and the officials to integrate these functions.
Each forum script can be misused for child porn forum.
But even for dissidents.

You can not prevent CP forums by you dismiss imprecise time storage.
I repeat, any user of a CP forum is guilty. The time does not matter.
Would you suspect ai wei wei, trying to distribute child porn?

[Arantor]

What do I do?

Talk to your local governmental representative. If the law is flawed, argue against the law, fight the law, simple as that.

Excuse me honest, but that's a bad argument.

Here's the thing: you're not the one who has to take that responsibility. I, and any other developer of good conscience, simply cannot write something to actively break around a law. The exact same changes benefit other sites that discuss illegal material - doesn't matter what the material is, whatever is done to benefit you to claim freedom of speech can be used in any other 'freedom of speech' claim for illegal material.

On the contrary, it is forbidden under German law, to log the IP.

Is it? I was not aware of that. In fact, I know one German governmental site was actively using SMF a bit back, I don't believe they modified it to remove IP logging.

Would you suspect ai wei wei, trying to distribute child pornography?

That was an example.

You're asking me how to modify your site to break the law. It is somewhat irrelevant what that law is. Whether it's suicide, or disparaging the site, or child pornography, or terrorism. I can't help you break one law on the basis that it's morally repugnant to others.

[redone]

Is this actually a feature request?

[Tobias Claren]

There is no law in Germany that the disabling of IP-logging prohibits.
You can disable it completely, or manipulated out.
You can also disable the server log (if you own or rent the server).
It is allowed to use in forums inaccurate or incorrect times.
Even if the goal is to hinder future theoretical investigations.
This is legal in Germany. Even in the United States.
Only the disability of a current investigation, is a criminal offense.
Not the prevention of future theoretical investigations.


On the contrary, the German Telemedia Act prohibits the logging of IP data.
In Germany, ISPs may not store IP data, if it is not necessary for billing.
So for each flat.
The same applies to website operators.

Holger voss successfully sued the German Telekom, because they published his personal details to the district attorney:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Voss [nofollow]


You help no one with a breach of law.
There's no law that forbids this.

Admit that you dismiss the idea, but not saying it would violate a law :-).
It violates no law. Also not in the United States.
Possibly in China or Iran or North Korea? Is this a problem  ?

Chewbacca Defense;-)?

I've only made a proposal for a function.
You have expressed your disapproval.
That's just your opinion, which I accept.

Is it? I was not aware of that. In fact, I know one German governmental site was actively using SMF a bit back, I don't believe they modified it to remove IP logging.

It is legally controversial, whether it is sufficient to mention that you log IPs.
The Telemedia Act says you may store personal information only for billing purposes.
IPs are "personal data".

Well known german political partys like the pirate party ( www.Piratenpartei.de [nofollow] => http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.piratenpartei.de%2F [nofollow] ) or two sites of the liberal party ( www.fdp-fraktion.de [nofollow] and www.fdp-dvp-fraktion.de [nofollow] ) has deactivated (or chopped-off from a "ready" cms or forum) the ip logging in the site script and on their servers.
The German prosecutors can not determine a user of the site.
The Pirate Party also has a forum.
Writers can not be identified by the IP.

Btw.:

http://digg.com/news/story/Visit_this_web_page_be_on_the_German_terror_watchlist [nofollow]

( http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Foraclesyndicate.twoday.net%2Fstories%2F4323879%2F [nofollow] )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militante_gruppe_%28mg%29 [nofollow]

A well known (in german internet) lawyer:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawblog.de%2Findex.php%2Farchives%2F2007%2F09%2F30%2Fschon-mal-beim-bka-gesurft%2F [nofollow]





@RedOne
Yes

[Arantor]

You're missing my point.

I understand where you're coming from. I understand why you want it, and I would implement it for you if I could. But I won't.

If I make the mod available for you, it will be misused by others who would break other laws in other countries. I cannot do this in good conscience, even though I sympathise with your situation. No matter how much you argue, no matter how much you try to confuse the matter with other legal wranglings, it changes nothing.

I don't see how SMF can implement this as a core feature either, for exactly the same reasons. Doing so would enable other sites with illegal content to exist more easily.

You're saying, essentially, that the laws in your country are unreasonable and that you'd like a way to circumvent them. By that same logic, one can argue that prevention of discussing child porn is unreasonable and that you'd like a way to circumvent that too. It doesn't matter whether the material is unreasonable or not: asking for a way to make it harder to investigate later for your (much nicer) case is going to benefit those who want to set up a forum for far less beneficial reasons.

[Tobias Claren]

In no country in the world that is breaking the law.
In which country?

OK, I follow your curious morality:
You'll find it all right to break the German law?

In Germany, you're breaking the law if you save IPs.

Another
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-245277.html?s=19531de5712fcbed7a946ebad5f9a45f [nofollow]

Make it switched on and off.
Then anyone can possibly act upon the existing laws of his country.

You write tangled.



I never mentioned that all Germans are bad laws. This accusation is confusing.
The laws in my list are laws, which would (possibly) repel most U.S. citizens.

Also, I do not want to prevent the enforcement of German law.
There is no German law that compels a citizen to help the police identify a suicider.
Not even if you know IPs.
You can let die the suicide announcer. And you need not call the police.

The visitors trust you. The example was not a self-help website. The visitors have the goal to kill himself, and the site gives them an opportunity with public attention. And they (must) know that no one wants there to prevent that. No self-help group (such as many common suicide forums).


Is there a law in the U.S. that forces you to save IPs? I do not think so.
Please give me the paragraph.
It will probably be banned in more countries to save IPs.

If you control the server (purchased or rented), you can always disable the IP logging.
Then it is unnecessary to make the time inaccurate.
Your arguments have no basis.


Also, my intention is irrelevant.
This is a request for a feature for many users worldwide.

The simple IP logging can I turn off as a layman.
Just not as comfortable on and off.

By default, SMF logging the IP addresses of forum users. To restore from this:

The file "load.php" and in the file "QueryString.php" replace all occurrences of the term you

     $ _SERVER ['REMOTE_ADDR']

by

     '127 .0.0.1 '

This is best to use the "Search and Replace" in a text editor.

If a Chinese or Iranian because of the absence of these possibilities is arrested, you are morally share responsibility.
OK, a bit far-fetched, but not entirely wrong.


...Oh, "far less beneficial reasons" not automatically criminal reasons!

Possibly there are inter-language communication problem or misunderstanding.

[Arantor]

You'll find it all right to break the German law?

I'm not in Germany. Maybe my users are, but I am not and neither are the servers I use. And last I checked, that's only a law in Germany, not an EU directive like the cookie law is.

Is there a law in the U.S. that forces you to save IPs? I do not think so.

No, there isn't. But they are saved so that you can use them for banning. Every forum software I know does the same thing for the same reason.

And in the event that illegal material is posted, that can be used to trace the originator.

...Oh, "far less beneficial reasons" not automatically criminal reasons!

No, they're not automatically criminal reasons. But I have to assume that they will be used for such.


There is no point in arguing further, neither of us is going to change our minds on this, no matter how much sophistry it gets wrapped up in.

[Tobias Claren]

IP banning is pointless.
Normal users have dynamic IP.
I found a website yesterday via google.
I wanted to read a forum post there.
There stood my IP would be blocked.
You see, this is stupid. That was a previous owner of the IP, which can continue spam with its new IP.

OK, there is a meaningful reason to block IPs.
The IPs of the federal police and intelligence services :-).
They are mostly static.

And in the event that illegal material is posted, that can be used to trace the originator.

Not in germany (theoretically).
Internet providers should not save IP addresses.
See the case Holger Voss.
Even the 7 days, they store currently, are in violation of the law.
No German provider currently stores more than 7 days IPs.


The BKA (federal police) had changed Wikipedia entries. Through the IP logs of Wikipedia, BKA IPs were known.

There is no point in arguing further, neither of us is going to change our minds on this, no matter how much sophistry it gets wrapped up in.

Do you have any other under control like Stalin?
Anyone who does not follow..... *peng* 
Will you raise they against me  ?
Please bring this proposal to a disscuss, without influences.

See the information from Amnesty International about Germany.
E.G. Police violence will does not punished. As in the case of Rodney King, but no one goes on the streets. These are the Germans .....

"There are no more good-natured, but also no credulous people than the German. No lie can be devised coarse enough, the Germans believe it. To a slogan that was given them, they pursue their compatriots with more bitterness than their real enemies."

Source: Napoleon Bonaparte
This is very true. Also actually.


Please bring this proposal without influences (and not the subject) for discussion. Without my alleged intentions.

If it is not possible, move it into the mod-suggestion. Maybe someone wants to program a mod.

[Kindred]

1- As Arantor has stated... there are no actual GOOD reasons to disable the logging... (other than, I don't want the police to ever be able to check my system) which is total BS anyway, since your HOST keeps logs as well.

2- why would you round off the posting time? That is just plain silly and defeats the purpose of a posting time anyway.

Either way, I can not see either of these ever being part of the core product