One month

[FrizzleFried]

That is the amount of time since the last new modification was approved (that I can see... I can't be 100% sure because the system sometimes puts newer files down the list for some reason)...

That seems a little... long?

Would it benefit the community to build a separate mod-site where "unapproved" mods can be downloaded and tested at the users risk?   I,  for one,  have a test-bed and run all my mods through it first before installing it on my main forum.... and oftentimes unapproved mods install/run perfectly fine.   How many mods are currently sitting waiting to be approved?  Is there a back log of hundreds?  Dozens?  How about a little transparency?   Perhaps a call for help?   Just some ideas... these delays are,  IMHO the reason many programmers are moving away from SMF or deciding to go the "commercial" route...



CoreISP edit: losing the caps lock title...

[Arantor]

This is absolutely nothing new and was a problem even back in 2009 when I was a team member. The problem is too few people actually want to sit and review mods and play bad cop in kicking them back for various reasons.

A separate mod site as you propose has been discussed many times, and maybe it'll happen soon. It's... complicated.

It's really not the only reason programmers are going elsewhere and/or going commercial, remember it's been a year or so since 2.0 final, with the grand total of 2 patches since then, and that was after a 5 year cycle to develop 2.0 final. Most of the long-standing competent modders had long since already left, and there's not really that many good up and coming mod authors.

(edit: removed caps lock title)

[FrizzleFried]

This is absolutely nothing new and was a problem even back in 2009 when I was a team member. The problem is too few people actually want to sit and review mods and play bad cop in kicking them back for various reasons.

A separate mod site as you propose has been discussed many times, and maybe it'll happen soon. It's... complicated.

It's really not the only reason programmers are going elsewhere and/or going commercial, remember it's been a year or so since 2.0 final, with the grand total of 2 patches since then, and that was after a 5 year cycle to develop 2.0 final. Most of the long-standing competent modders had long since already left, and there's not really that many good up and coming mod authors.

Where did they go (aside from the obvious >grin<)?

I wish I had the experience/competency to help out but I fear my skills don't rise nearly to the level necessary to certify a mod...

I'd REALLY like to know how many mods are currently in queue... are we talking about a couple?  A few?  A dozen?  Two dozen?  A hundred?

Just curious.  It would be REALLY NICE if these mods were made available to the userbase... perhaps with having to agree to the fact that they are unapproved at the moment and they may cause issues, etc...

(edit: removed caps lock title)

[Arantor]

Where did they go

Elsewhere. Anywhere. Maybe life got in the way. Maybe they got fed up waiting. Either way the result is the same: most of the talent is gone and unlikely to spontaneously return. There is new talent, but it does not have the same fervour as the old talent.

I'd REALLY like to know how many mods are currently in queue... are we talking about a couple?  A few?  A dozen?  Two dozen?  A hundred?

I think the worst I ever understood the queue to be was 50 or so, and that was early 2010 after I'd left the team, since up to that point I'd been doing the bulk of approvals.

I would imagine that the figure is probably in the mid 30s judging by what I've seen and what I hear.

Just curious.  It would be REALLY NICE if these mods were made available to the userbase... perhaps with having to agree to the fact that they are unapproved at the moment and they may cause issues, etc...

Ah, see, I've always thought that the average level of technical skill on this site is a good reason to disallow it because people will use what's put in front of them, regardless of whether it works, whether it works well, or whether it's a pile of crud. Most people don't have the technical skill to weigh up whether a mod is well written or not, and rely on the information put in front of them - sign-off from the Cust. team represents a lot in that respect.



CoreISP edit: losing the caps lock title...

[emanuele]

Would it benefit the community to build a separate mod-site where "unapproved" mods can be downloaded and tested at the users risk?

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?board=195.0

[Suki]

At July  17 2012, there are 5 mods on the queue, of course it all come down to how many mods were approved, never mind Suki been burned out, that kind of stuff just doesn't care right?

So, I deeply apologize for taking a few days to clear my mind and to work on my own mods, can't promise it won't happen again but I'll do my best...

[MrPhil]

If the queue gets quite backed up at times, and reviewers are burning out, it sounds like there's something wrong with the system. Could tools be provided to assist reviewers, perhaps by helping them to concentrate on what's been changed, rather than leaving it to them to go wandering through the code on their own? Should SMF be rearchitected to make mods much cleaner and less prone to unexpected side effects?

This would be a problem with any community-based project. Do other projects handle it in a better way? Is there anything that SMF could learn from them (architecture and/or review process)? You certainly want a capable developer who understands SMF in-depth to do the reviewing, but is there anything that could be done to ease the burden and speed the process, as there are so few of these valuable people?

[Arantor]

At July  17 2012, there are 5 mods on the queue, of course it all come down to how many mods were approved, never mind Suki been burned out, that kind of stuff just doesn't care right?

I can fully sympathise, probably more than you might realise, and for all the hard times I give, it's because I have been on the other side of the fence too and know what to expect, and know only too well what demands are being made. If people aren't toeing the line, that's what happens (and it's one of the reasons I stepped down 2 years ago)

I think the whole burn-out problem is catching, actually.

rather than leaving it to them to go wandering through the code on their own?

Well, a mod package is simply a list of changes anyway.

You certainly want a capable developer who understands SMF in-depth to do the reviewing, but is there anything that could be done to ease the burden and speed the process, as there are so few of these valuable people?

Other projects have either the same problems (with all the same problems and little different to fix it) or they don't bother with the approval process and just wait for people to report projects as unsafe.

[Kindred]

Exactly... (last point)

One of the main things about SMF is that the team has always taken security very seriously.
This has been good for SMF, with quick security releases (but only a few of them) as opposed to months of insecure running and/or frequent required patches.

On of the side-effects of this attitude, though, is that the team vets each and every mod submitted to our mod site fairly carefully (at least on the initial submission). The team confirms that there are no obvious security issues with the mod (and there are any number of mods which have been bounced back because of potential security flaws) and that coding standards are subscribed to (so that mods don't conflict more than necessary and or performance problems are not introduced through bad coding)

Those of you who write decent mods probably don't see the issue, because your mods, when they make it to the front of the queue are frequently approved with only minor communication.
or those of you ******ing and moaning because you want mods available have apparently been spoiled because you don't realize how much effort the team has put into protecting users from potential issues with their sites.

because, you know what will happen, the first time someone installs an unchecked, untested, security-flawed mod and gets hacked?   They are going to blame SMF... not the mod, but the software.

[FrizzleFried]

At July  17 2012, there are 5 mods on the queue, of course it all come down to how many mods were approved, never mind Suki been burned out, that kind of stuff just doesn't care right?

So, I deeply apologize for taking a few days to clear my mind and to work on my own mods, can't promise it won't happen again but I'll do my best...

Instead of taking this thread personally,  perhaps you could look at it as a criticism of the SYSTEM not those within the system?

Think about it... I had no idea of how many mods are waiting for approval (hence my question)... I have no idea of how many different people are currently approving mods (is it just you Suki or are there others?)... all I know is what is visible from the regular members side. 

My criticism/opinion in no way reflects on the folks currently working within the system... at all...

[Suki]

Let me put some facts here so the next persons complaining about it can build up their complains with a little more information.

Delays are a 50/50 between the team and the mod author.

A lot of times a mod author submits a mod, gets reviewed and then the mod author just forget about the mod and never responds anymore, this caused a delay in the whole queue since every mod gets reviewed equally.

Sometimes the mod author takes X days to respond, then and only then we can continue with the process.

Sometimes the mod author confuses the review process with beta testing...

As you can see, is a 50/50 situation here, but of course you people only see us as the bad guy in some Clint Eastwood movie...  I'm already get used to that, there is no point in keeping fighting against that.

This is one of the reasons I wanted the review process to be public, so people can see with their own eyes how thins thing works, to people actually participate on the process and make it faster and more, more pleasant to everyone. But I realized that people doesn't want to get involve, not sir, they only want to get spoon-feed.

They doesn't care how that mod got approved, they just want to use it. ****** the people who worked out 3 hours a day of their own free time so we can use it safely...

Instead of taking this thread personally,  perhaps you could look at it as a criticism of the SYSTEM not those within the system?

Think about it... I had no idea of how many mods are waiting for approval (hence my question)... I have no idea of how many different people are currently approving mods (is it just you Suki or are there others?)... all I know is what is visible from the regular members side. 

My criticism/opinion in no way reflects on the folks currently working within the system... at all...

It's just me, so yes, I do take it personally.

[FrizzleFried]

or those of you ******ing and moaning because you want mods available have apparently been spoiled because you don't realize how much effort the team has put into protecting users from potential issues with their sites.

OK... i get it... inquiring about the "system" equates to ******ing and moaning?  Re read my post.  I simply INQUIRED as to why it had been a month since a new mod had come down the pike.  Keep in mind... i wasn't/am not privy to how many mods are in queue (5 it seems) or how many people are reviewing the mods,  etc.  I simply asked a question and made a suggestion.  Nothing more... nothing less... nothing sinister... and certainly not ******ing and moaning.

[Suki]

This is beyond the system.

Change the system to whatever you want, it won't change the fact that people just don't like to work, don't like to get involved, don't want to participate, don't want to do anything but receive.

As for your inquire:

Its because I got burned out.
There are 5 mods on the queue.
Only I am doing reviews.

I hope this covers all your inquires so we can go back to our normal routine of you receiving free and safe mods and me working o those mods so you can use them safely.

Thank you for your suggestions.

[Kindred]

Frizzle...   you seem to make a point of only reading parts of my posts... and misunderstanding those parts.

1- I did not specify any individual in my comment (There have been several threads started recently which were nothing more than complaints, the fact that I responded in this thread was mitigated by the fact that I did not address my post to you, but rather to "Those of you...")

2- I explained the specifics, as related to the SYSTEM at the start of my post... but you seem to have focused only on the second point in the second half...

However, all that aside, yes... your OP did come across as a bit b&m...   

[Arantor]

As you can see, is a 50/50 situation here, but of course you people only see us as the bad guy in some Clint Eastwood movie...  I'm already get used to that, there is no point in keeping fighting against that.

Not all of the people in this debate see you as the bad guy. On the contrary, I have a lot of respect for you taking up the mantle, because it is a hard taskmaster when it's just you doing it. There are 5 people on the Cust. team, one of which is on hiatus, one of which is a theme specialist, not a mod specialist. Why is it just you reviewing mods? If the others are not pulling their weight - which is what it appears to be, there is a very large problem.

But it's not a new problem. Back in 2009, the team was larger, and just as inactive. (Though, worse, certain members retained their badge primarily as use for advertising their own stuff.)

[FrizzleFried]

This is beyond the system.

Change the system to whatever you want, it won't change the fact that people just don't like to work, don't like to get involved, don't want to participate, don't want to do anything but receive.

As for your inquire:

Its because I got burned out.
There are 5 mods on the queue.
Only I am doing reviews.

I hope this covers all your inquires so we can go back to our normal routine of you receiving free and safe mods and me working o those mods so you can use them safely.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Thanks for the answers... though you can take your attitude and stuff it up your backside...

It's not my fault you're the only one working on the reviews.  I'd HAPPILY volunteer if there was something I could do.  I do run a test-bench and could verify if a mod works as intended or not... but I would not be able to verify security issues, etc.... but I guess that makes me "part of the problem".

It is a SAD SAD day when users are AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS.  I can see now what Illori means when she mentions this place can be a little "intimidating" for some.  Luckily I don't give a crap enough to be bothered by the bad-attitude. 

THANK YOU SUKI for your contributions and reviews... regardless of the huge chip on your shoulder.

[emanuele]

There are 5 people on the Cust. team, one of which is on hiatus, one of which is a theme specialist, not a mod specialist.

Actually two are more theme-oriented (i.e. Gary and Ricky.).
Kays has been stolen both by RL (AFAIK) ...and Devs... (oh don't worry, for SMF 2.2 (or most likely 3.0) it will be you Suki the one stolen by Devs! )

[emanuele]

Thanks for the answers... though you can take your attitude and stuff it up your backside...

FrizzleFried I can understand everything, but please refrain from using certain expressions.

[FrizzleFried]

Thanks for the answers... though you can take your attitude and stuff it up your backside...

FrizzleFried I can understand everything, but please refrain from using certain expressions.

Bad attitudes deserve bad attitudes.  I'm NOT going to be intimidated in to NOT speaking my mind or asking questions ... by anyone.   There is a huge problem if people are AFRAID to ask questions ... no?

[Suki]

As you can see, is a 50/50 situation here, but of course you people only see us as the bad guy in some Clint Eastwood movie...  I'm already get used to that, there is no point in keeping fighting against that.

Not all of the people in this debate see you as the bad guy. On the contrary, I have a lot of respect for you taking up the mantle, because it is a hard taskmaster when it's just you doing it. There are 5 people on the Cust. team, one of which is on hiatus, one of which is a theme specialist, not a mod specialist. Why is it just you reviewing mods? If the others are not pulling their weight - which is what it appears to be, there is a very large problem.

But it's not a new problem. Back in 2009, the team was larger, and just as inactive. (Though, worse, certain members retained their badge primarily as use for advertising their own stuff.)

I won't go into details but yes, it is the exact same problem, I know is not new and I know I'm just one of a large chain of persons who has been trough this same scenario.


@FrizzleFried  You are free to ask whatever you want, just as you are free to ask and/or complain I also have the right to express my anger from time to time (after all, this is a forum), is not towards you personally, you just happen to post on an unfortunately bad timing.

Again, thank you for your suggestions, now me and my chip will go back to work for you, you just need to sit there and look pretty or you can contribute: Mod Development is your choice