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discussion on Calendar features/enhancements/mods

Started by demlak, January 14, 2013, 08:23:03 AM

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What calendar enhancement do you want? (see thread for more info)

recurring events (reapeating like daily, weekly, monthly, etc..)(see thread for more info)
14 (87.5%)
enhanced iCal functionality (see thread for more info)
6 (37.5%)
more information fields (like starttime, location, etc.)(see thread for more info)
10 (62.5%)
bridging interface to an external calendar (for example exchange/google/etc.)(see thread for more info)
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

demlak

Quote from: Arantor on November 18, 2013, 09:30:32 AM
Show me there's a *significant* demand and it'll get built. Until then, it won't happen unless I .find another reason to implement it.

that´s a knockout argument.. how the hell could we ask all the people who don´t use a feature which is not present?
just an idea: maybe this will have a promotion effect.. so new people join smf =) maybe some people out there saw such a crappy calender and walk away to another forum software..


we know.. it´s not paid.. so we won´t tell you what your "job" is.. we just tell you, there are people who want those features.. and there is a demand on that..  we cannot show how big this demand is.. but please.. don´t bother us with such "killer arguments".. that´s not fair..


btw.. if anone know of a forum/portal software beside SMF, which got those features.. please message me.. thx a lot

Arantor

No, it's not a knockout argument at all, regardless of what you're trying to suggest. I resent the fact that you're being rather disingenuous about contributions to SMF.

Show me there's a significant desire for it. Show me it's worth me spending the hours required to implement it with more than "because I and half a dozen other people want it". So far I'm just not seeing that it's worth my time to build it as compared to the many other things being worked on that will have a tangible benefit for a sizeable number of users.

But by all means, if you think that I'm being unfair by asking you to find people who would actually use a feature to justify the hours required on it, find another software. IPB will love you.
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Irisado

Quote from: demlak on November 19, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
we know.. it´s not paid.. so we won´t tell you what your "job" is.. we just tell you, there are people who want those features.. and there is a demand on that..  we cannot show how big this demand is.. but please.. don´t bother us with such "killer arguments".. that´s not fair..

If there were pages and pages of SMF members clamouring for such an option in this thread, then you could point to the presence of some demand.  The fact that very little demand is being put forward in a thread specifically designed for the purpose, however, indicates that Arantor is right not to consider this as being something that is going to be implemented at this time.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Arantor

(And of course, let us not forget it's much easier to ****** that someone else is doing something for me than it is to actually do it. It takes a few minutes to write a post, but it takes quite a few hours to make a substantial change of any kind.)
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TheListener

A calendar is essential on my forum.

ALL Calendar events are linked to posts in their respective boards.

Arantor

So? All we've so far established is that you use a feature currently in SMF, good for you. Now if it were the point of this thread to establish that the calendar is used, great. Except it isn't, it's to try and figure out if it's worth adding new things - of which the grand total of 7 people have voted (including me, by the way)... which really doesn't indicate a strong demand.
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TheListener

So Mr Sarcasm what would you suggest. A mod instead of a built in feature?

Arantor

I suggest you read the question before answering next time.

To clarify: we're not planning on changing the state of the calendar in terms of it being a core feature or not. We're trying to establish if there's a valid demand for me spending time on adding more features (and all the requisite testing). You know, like the poll says.
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TheListener

Some of us have more important things to do thanks I was just adding my opinion on the matter re: the calendar and its usage.

Irisado

Only nine people have even voted on the poll, and it has been running since January.  On that basis, if nothing else (although I agree with everything that Arantor has said), this thread is, to all intense and purposes, all over.  I think that the best thing to do now is to let it rest :).
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

CandC

The replies of "only 9 people" and "if a significant number of people" had me curious if there were many other discussions besides this one about the Calendar.

A quick search had these relevant results just in the first page, so not everyone using/wanting the Calendar has "voted" on this poll and commented here.

These aren't the exact same discussion as this poll, but they are calendar related and show there is some interest in using the calendar in SMF.
--------------------
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=503149

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=508888

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=501204

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=512440

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=513785

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=511405

http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=511639


I think there is a desire to use and tweak the calendar to their needs, but if everyone keeps getting met with it's not going to be tweaked so deal type of replies, I can see where people would just stop asking.

Put "Calendar" in the search box and you'll find many more than the links above.



Oh, and by the way - Thanksgiving for 2013 is not on the correct day, it should be the 28th.

Arantor

And you're missing the point.

Is there clear evidence the calendar is in use? Yes. This is not and has never been in dispute. The quantity of users is probably lower than you might think, though.

Are there enhancements that would benefit a significant proportion of SMF users?

This is what we're getting at. Most of those topics don't seem like they'd benefit most calendar users, let alone most SMF users. Prove me wrong. Show me that implementing a specific feature will benefit a sizeable proportion of SMF users as a whole (not just a proportion of calendar users which isn't even 20% of the user base as far as I can tell) and I'll do it.

Note that finding threads about the calendar isn't enough... They all want different things.
No good deed goes unpunished
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CandC

Arantor,
I appreciate your taking the time to engage here, but don't take my comments as antagonistic or a challenge to you.  I have no desire to "Prove you wrong", I'm not that type of person.

I've monitored this thread and others for months hoping someone within the SMF community would be willing to take a look at it and one day I'd check the comments and see activity.  I'm not stressed or losing sleep over it.


And - I said when posting the threads they were all about different things, I was just pointing out that there are inquiries about the calendar so it's in use by some. 

Obviously the numbers are not enough (nor likely will be) to satisfy your criteria of a legitimate need so you can probably ignore this thread at this point and not waste any more of your time which you never fail to remind us is quite valuable.

Kindred

CandC...

We know that people use the calendar...  although I think - if we took a real scan of all SMF websites, yoyu might find the percentage much lower than you think.
We also agree that the calendar would benefit from some enhancements...

However, form the PROJECT point of view - we have limited development resources.
We have to prioritize what features get added, what gets "fixed" and what other things the developers (and others) spend their time on.
Much of that prioritization is based on the visible and know-able use of or desire for specific features.

In this case, the features being requested seem to have a very minor share of the SMF userbase.
Which implies that these features would be better designed as a MOD

actually, I will note the subscription-events *IS* already a mod for 2.0.x
recrurring events WAS a mod for 1.0.x and 1.1.x but never made it to 2.0 - which suggests that it doesn't have enough interest for anyone to even pick up the old mod.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

CandC

Thanks Kindred.

Quoteactually, I will note the subscription-events *IS* already a mod for 2.0.x
recrurring events WAS a mod for 1.0.x and 1.1.x but never made it to 2.0 - which suggests that it doesn't have enough interest for anyone to even pick up the old mod.

Yep, I currently use the subscription mod for events.  It's a handy feature.


I was able to find the 2 mods that were posted for recurring events and they have not and will not be updated. People likely stopped looking or asking when told they would not be. Oh well. 

SMF will continue to be the best system out there for our needs and I appreciate all the features it DOES provide.

:)

Arantor

The fact that no-one has picked it up in the interim is indicative of the fact there's really that little demand for it - if it were that important, someone with the skills would have picked it up by now.
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byproduct


it's apparently important enough a feature that ya'll keep including claendar rather than leaving it out and saving the space, load time and resource usage.
"I" think that in itself lends credence that it has value.

Now as far as using recent calls a as gauge for investing further dev into it...
i would argue that adding features as have been described in this very thread WOULD increase calendar usage AND meet other addon request.
like
shop/classifieds addon
advertising mods
various l/r header/footer blocks and panels
even shoutbox and announcement to some effect
while adding a timed display ability

all those get a lot of attention and request

so there is existing demonstrated call for such


if not, vb and xenforo wouldn't be getting the purchase, addon's,  and yrly renewal license prices they charge, PER SITE/DOMAIN.
and those capable of doing so, or doing the same with smf, mybb, phpbb, addons.

not saying anything is wrong with that.
but I am saying if those markets exist then it is only because there is enough need/want.










Kindred

And my post, three above yours still covers the answer....

Quote from: Kindred on November 20, 2013, 10:02:50 AM
We know that people use the calendar...  although I think - if we took a real scan of all SMF websites, you might find the percentage much lower than you think.
We also agree that the calendar would benefit from some enhancements...

However, from the PROJECT point of view - we have limited development resources.
We have to prioritize what features get added, what gets "fixed" and what other things the developers (and others) spend their time on.
Much of that prioritization is based on the visible and know-able use of or desire for specific features.

In this case, the features being requested seem to have a very minor share of the SMF userbase.
Which implies that these features would be better designed as a MOD

actually, I will note the subscription-events *IS* already a mod for 2.0.x
recrurring events WAS a mod for 1.0.x and 1.1.x but never made it to 2.0 - which suggests that it doesn't have enough interest for anyone to even pick up the old mod.

And we're not adding shops or classifieds or advert mods or blocks or shoutboxes to the core product either...   so I am unsure what your intention was to list all of those...
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

Arantor

Quote from: byproduct on December 01, 2013, 09:03:55 AM

it's apparently important enough a feature that ya'll keep including claendar rather than leaving it out and saving the space, load time and resource usage.
"I" think that in itself lends credence that it has value.

I think you don't know me very well, or indeed my plans for SMF, like how only last night in team chat I talked about removing it in 3.0. The only reason I won't remove it in 2.1 is because it's actually more effort than it's worth at this late stage of 2.1 development.

Quote
i would argue that adding features as have been described in this very thread WOULD increase calendar usage AND meet other addon request.

Yes but you're not the one who will have to actually spend hours of your free time working on it, are you?

Quote
but I am saying if those markets exist then it is only because there is enough need/want.

And the need could be satisfied by making the calendar a plugin. I have done this before, seriously tempted to do it again.
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

demlak


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