installing languages (newbie Q)

[brynn]

Ooohh, I'm starting to understand now.   I only need to change whatever text that mod happens to display.  I don't understand much about programming, or how websites work, or how mods work.  I had in my mind that the code for the entire mods, and even the entire website had to be translated before it would work.  But I guess the same code is used by everyone, no matter what language they read, write or speak.  The code itself needs no translation, does it?  It's just what needs to be displayed for the website visitors or admins that hass to be translated.

Well OK!    (  Maybe I should start putting NEWBIE all in caps for the next few weeks!    )

I hope my forum will be an international forum, so I've installed what I think of as the traditional, most used languages.  But if someone who speaks a less common language wants to join, then I'll need to install that language, after all the mods are installed, and then go and change those little bits of text, like you said.

Thank you all very  much for your help!  It's much appreciated 

[Arantor]

It's just what needs to be displayed for the website visitors or admins that hass to be translated.

Yup.

But if someone who speaks a less common language wants to join, then I'll need to install that language

Not really recommended. People are happiest in their own language, sure, but that means they're going to post in their own language - and unless you have moderators who can speak that language, it's really just asking for trouble because they could be posting all kinds of things and you would have no idea what they're doing.

[MrPhil]

But if someone who speaks a less common language wants to join, then I'll need to install that language

Not really recommended. People are happiest in their own language, sure, but that means they're going to post in their own language - and unless you have moderators who can speak that language, it's really just asking for trouble because they could be posting all kinds of things and you would have no idea what they're doing.

Two issues there with "supporting" a "less common" language:

• One thing you want is to achieve a critical mass of users in a given language. No one wants to talk to themselves all day long. If they post in Estonian and no one ever replies, they'll get discouraged and drift away. I would tally up specific requests for a given language support before taking the plunge (line up a moderator too).
• If you don't have a moderator fluent in that language, it doesn't have to be a total mystery what they're posting, but it will take a lot more work. You would need to cut and paste mystery language posts into Google Translate and at least check if they're spamming or flaming or doing something forbidden. I seem to recall that there are some in-place pushbutton translation tools, but you may have to pay for that service now.

You'll notice that even SMF restricts non-English use to a specific board for a language, rather than permitting posts all over the place in random languages. There's no problem with allowing a selection of any language for prompts and labels, but give some thought about where you want to allow non-primary language postings in your forum.

[brynn]

You mean it doesn't translate the messages? 

Why would you want the forum displayed in a different language, let's say French, if someone posts a message in French, that doesn't get translated, so that people who use the forum in Spanish can read it in Spanish?

Is there some kind of mod that will translate the messages? 

(PS - the new default theme today is cute, but more appropriate for children, imo.  I changed my theme back to the previous default, but I still have smileys from the "cartoon theme".  Oh, maybe I can change them from my cp??  I'll check right after I post this {smiley here})

[kat]

Think of just how big a database could be, if it had to store entire language dictionaries...

Think of how slow your site would be, if it was forever translating everything.

Nightmare.

There is a way, though... (For Opera users, at least)

https://addons.opera.com/en-gb/extensions/details/in-place-translator

[Oldiesmann]

There are two different mods you can use - Quick Translation or Google Translate for SMF 2.0. Google's translations aren't always perfect, but that's about as close as you'll get to what you want.

[Arantor]

Not to mention how inaccurate it would be to have automatic translation - Google Translate frequently gets things incorrect.

As for storing it, if you imagine that SMF supports upwards of 50 languages, that would mean you'd have to handle 50x the content.

[Chalky]

An English friend of mine had a Spanish boyfriend and neither spoke the other's language, so they used Google translator to communicate.  Dodgy translations were responsible for a lot of misunderstandings and they nearly broke up over a translation a couple of times because neither realised that it was the translation that was bad rather than what the other had said.  Each time it took a human translator (me) to set them straight.  Imagine the fun that kind of thing could cause on a forum 

[kat]

That's true of all couples.

Women speak in a strange language that us mere males have never been able to understand...

[MrPhil]

An English friend of mine had a Spanish boyfriend and neither spoke the other's language, so they used Google translator to communicate.  Dodgy translations were responsible for a lot of misunderstandings and they nearly broke up over a translation a couple of times because neither realised that it was the translation that was bad rather than what the other had said.

Is his name Manuel and is he from Barcelona? I think Basil is hunting for him... something about cleaning the dead pigeons out of the water tank.

[Chalky]

Is his name Manuel and is he from Barcelona? I think Basil is hunting for him... something about cleaning the dead pigeons out of the water tank.

¿Qué? 

[kat]

Is hamster!

[brynn]

Well of course I have very little understanding of programming, or how big or slow a certain kind program might be.  I actually wouldn't mind a slow page load/display, if the translation was appropriate.

Oh, I've seen that Google mod in use, and I would never use it.  At least not until google fixes its product, which mixes up words and phrases.  It seems to translate everything properly, but then throws in some apparently random organization of the words and phrases.  But I'll have a look at the other one. 

I don't use Opera, so that translator won't work for me....and also, not many of my forum members would be using it either.

But thanks for the info.  I'm disappointed, but I may well find forum members who could handle various languages.  The forum will provide support for Inkscape, an open source vector graphics editor, which is used all over the world.

It's a little hard to understand how 2 people could fall in love if they don't speak the same language, at least a little bit.  Add such a distance that they have to use the internet to communicate, makes it seem even less likely of being successful.  But by using that google product, I'd say it's impossible.  And yes, communication between the sexes can be difficult.  Men often seem less willing to make an effort to communicate, and those who do usually blame it on woman {lol}

And btw, I suspect the creator of April Fools day was a man.  Probably had poor communication skills. {roll eyes}  But that's what this new default theme and smileys are about today, right?

Well anyway, many sincere thanks to everyone who's offered comments and suggestions.  It's all much appreciated, and I've learned a lot.

All best :-)

[brynn]

Oh oops, I do have 1 more question.  I wonder if there would be any translation software for a price, that might work better than the 2 mods mentioned here?  I'd at least like to learn more about them, maybe look at a trial version or something??

[Arantor]

I sincerely doubt it. Given how many (very highly qualified) people work at Google, what they have is about the best there is right now.

Certainly nothing you can run on your own server.

[Kindred]

getting accurate translations is actually big business (they charge big bucks) and requires a HUMAN to parse it. They have not made anything in machine code that even comes close to the accuracy required for real translations.

This is why SMF uses a human (and amazing) translation team and why we have support boards in the various languages.
Translating a fixed string is a one-time thing (which is why we have all the language packs that we have) but even that still requires a human to do it accurately.
Translating a user's post would be next to impossible... especially considering the poor grammar, terrible spelling and use of idiomatic expressions.

[brynn]

Ok, I understand everything I need to understand for now

Thanks again everyone!

[MrPhil]

Google Translate explained:

1. http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-controversial-books.php  Number 8, English as She Is Spoke

2. Monty Python's Flying Circus Dirty Hungarian Phrasebook Sketch: www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao