Backup from web host question

[joeyrss]

I installed a smf forum through GoDaddy installer and am setting up the forum now. There is a backup option in the control panel at gd that I use for each change made to the forum. The tech rep told me that their backup saves database and files and updates automatically every 30 days.  Is this good enough or do I need more?

[TheListener]

I wouldn't believe everything they tell you.

Alao you are better off using the package directly off this forum.

I'd look for  a better host too.

[Burke ♞ Knight]

My personal rule of thumb:

1. Always make a local copy of all site files.
2. Always use FTP.
3. Make periodic updates of the local files via FTP, overwriting if newer.
4. Make weekly or daily database backups via phpmyadmin.
5. Never trust the host's backup for your site. They don't work hard on it, you do.

[Illori]

http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Backup_-_How_do_I_save_my_SMF_forum

[joeyrss]

Thanks, I didn't pick them, our president has used them for years for more than one domain.

I used the gd installer because I don't know the first thing about it and tried to install before going to web hosting but found out I need other programs to do that on windows.

Do I need Filezilla program to save files on my computer?

[Illori]

either filezilla or another ftp client yes you would need one.

[joeyrss]

That is just for the files and not database right?

[Illori]

filezilla yes?

[joeyrss]

Okay..I will have to learn how to do that and learn the database backup after that if I can just do the files first?

[MrPhil]

Frankly, the database backup is far more critical. It contains your members and all the posts they've made. Lose the database and you've lost 95% of your forum. If your host does not provide phpMyAdmin or some other database GUI, run away. Run very fast. Learn to use phpMyAdmin to "export" the tables in your database to a file (.sql or some compressed version, such as .sql.tgz). Download the backup file to your PC. Do this every so often, for the longest time you could stand losing all your forum activity. Learn how to check the backup, and learn how to restore ("import") it.

This is a far more comprehensive article: http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Backup

[joeyrss]

GoDaddy does provide backup for database, that is one reason I went with web hosting this as I do not know how to do the technical end of it. I can do a backup on their site each time I make changes to the forum. I was told to go that route since I have no knowledge of database hosting and backup of it along with files.

[MrPhil]

Never rely exclusively on your host's backup procedures. Any decent host will do a periodic backup, but there are many cases reported where they found that their backups were no good. It's good to have your own copy on your PC, as a fallback. Also, many hosts will charge you quite a stiff fee to restore just your site or selected files or database, if you mess it up (i.e., it's not a server-wide failure or hack). Their backups are designed for the restoration of entire servers in one shot, and it's quite a bit of work to pick out individual files for one customer.

[joeyrss]

Okay, thanks for your advice and I do appreciate your time here helping newbs like me.

I will have my son help me get what I need on my computer to do these backups since I have been reading all of it and have a headache. 

[kat]

Made any progress?

[joeyrss]

Thanks for asking... 

I was very confused after reading the wiki how on backup several times so I asked my 21 year old son who has some computer knowledge. My older son works in genius division at Apple in Seattle and he warned me forums are a lot of work when we spoke on the phone last week...he is right so far..
Anyway, it was over my head so my younger son installed XAMPP on my computer which has a few options such as database and filezilla. Now, I am waiting for him to have time to help me do a backup and file transfer with that system.  Do we go into the GoDaddy panel and upload or transfer the forum and files from there to my new setup?  I read here in another thread that you should not use "binary" mode if your computer is windows? I'm not sure what that all means either but the wiki says to use binary..any help there?

[kat]

You can download the actual forum software, using FTP, or their File Manager, if they have one.

Filezilla has a "Transfers" menu. In there, set "Transfer type" to "binary". That shouldn't affect downloads, though.

But, if you want the members, posts, &c. you need to get the database...

Godaddy are notorious for making that either incredibly difficult, or impossible.

[joeyrss]

Sorry, can you explain that a little more? Do I use the SQL for downloading the forum software from GoDaddy?

For the files we use the transfer menu of filezilla to get files from the GD file panel? Here is a pic of what is on my computer...

[Illori]

also you dont need xampp on your system to do a backup. you just need to download the files with filezilla and backup the database.

[MrPhil]

Wait a minute. If you have a hosting account with NoDaddy, what are you trying to do with XAMPP? *AMPP is to set up a server on your PC. I think you will find it much more difficult than using a hosting account. It's useful only for playing around and testing, and is not really suited for a production server accessible by the Web. As mentioned before, it is unnecessary for backing up either the files or the database.

[kat]

OO! I understood it as he was giving Slowdaddy the shove and was going to self-host, instead.

[Illori]

nope he is not trying to self host, he was trying to use that combined with the backup which is not needed at all.

[MrPhil]

Understandable, with your recent sex-change operation    you might still be a little dazed...

I didn't read it as leaving NoDaddy to self-host, but given his state of knowledge, that would be a disaster. I think all he wants to do is back up properly.

[joeyrss]

Oh, I thought my computer needed a program to do the backup but it doesn't?  This is what confused me as I thought that was needed to do it as I don't have Linux etc.

Yes, I am using GD lol..and all the other names..to host the forum and just want a backup of it and the files so filezilla is good for backup  on database and files?  Do we still need to go with "binary" mode? Thanks, I'm so computer illiterate in these areas.  And I'm a she...

[Illori]

you just need an ftp client to backup the files nothing more on that front.

the ftp client will not backup the database though, you need to use the tools your host provides like phpmyadmin to do a backup of the database.

[joeyrss]

Okay, this is what I thought but someone else told me to backup my forum locally as well as at GD because they are not reliable. So not knowing how to do that I thought I needed another program on my computer to backup data base locally. I can do a database backup anytime from the GD panel.

My nephew told me to go with web hosting so I did not have to try and figure out how to download smf and do backups etc.

So let me get this straight:

I can backup files with filezilla and GD is good enough for the database? 

[kat]

Understandable, with your recent sex-change operation    you might still be a little dazed...

Just a bit...

[Chalky]

Let's see if your GD setup looks like mine.  Login to your account on GD's website and find the Launch button next to Web Hosting.

At the top of the screen you should now see "Databases" and a sub-option "My SQL".

You should now see a popup that says Manage Databases.  Identify your database, probably the only one, and press the phpmyadmin button next to it.

Login.  The username is usually the same as your database name.  The password may need some digging if you don't know it, though if you backup your files using FTP first, you can find the database password in your Settings.php file.

Are you in your database yet?  Click the name of your database on the left and you'll see all the tables appear.  Click "Export" at the top.  The next screen looks scary but you should be ok keeping all the defaults but do check the "Save as file" box as the bottom.  Press Go.

Choose where on your computer to save it and you should now be backing up your database 

That's how it works in my GoDaddy anyway.

[joeyrss]

Checking it out now...

[joeyrss]

Okay this would have been so good to know about 30 posts earlier, thanks CK! I'm in phpMyAdmin. but don't know what password so I guess I will have to find that out to do the export. Will keep at this and so glad I don't have to use all that other stuff I made my son do. 

[Chalky]

Glad I could help 

Tell your son you thought he needed the practice 

[Illori]

keep in mind that you need to do frequent backup's of the database as that is where all your members/posts etc are stored.

[joeyrss]

Right CK, he is planning on going to school for computer security or something of that nature so he can count it all good. 

I ended up calling GD as I could not get into the phpmyadmin and he instructed me to clear my cache, which was not too hard..lol..and explained to me how to export the database so it is on my computer.  It now says windows cannot open this program and to select one that can..it shows notepad or wordpad as installed programs to open it. Another question, what do I use to open it or does filezilla work for that?

[Chalky]

Yay, you have a database backup!! 

No, your computer can't open it, nor does it need to.  All you do with your database backups is store them on your computer in case they are needed, and if you do need one you just import it back to the database.

If you want to check the contents of your backup, the easiest way is to create a new database on your GD account, select import and upload your backup to it.  If all the tables are there and it looks like your real database then it's good 

As Illori said, since the database contains all your members and posts it is important to take a backup regularly.  On my main forum I take a backup every night before I go to bed, that way the worst that can happen is I'd lose the last day of posts but no more.

[MrPhil]

And I'm a she...

And a very lovely one too.

Anyway,

back up database -- the more critical thing, as it contains your members and all their posts. On your host (GD), using phpMyAdmin or some other tool they might provide for backup, "back up" or "export" your entire SMF database to a file. If the utility doesn't automatically download it to your PC, you can download it with an FTP client such as FileZilla to your PC for safekeeping. It might be an .sql file (readable in any editor) or it might be compressed into .tar.gz or .sql.tgz or something. Try to back up to .sql, as you should browse through the backups once in a while to make sure they're complete. If an .sql file, ASCII file transfer is fine. If compressed, it must be binary. How often should you back up? No less often than you're willing to lose your work and forum content, in case your host screws up its backups (it happens).

back up your files -- For a forum, most of it is replaceable from SMF, unless you have any custom coding. However, there is a file that contains your access settings and configuration (Settings.php), the .htaccess file, and all your members' attachment and avatar files. Those are irreplaceable, so you should back up your files reasonably often (at the same time as your database, is the easiest). Some hosts offer utilities to bundle up all your files into a single, compressed file for easier handling, but it's not too bad to use an FTP client (transfer of everything as individual files in one operation). Just be sure to read the Wiki entry on Backup so you know some pitfalls to watch out for.

[joeyrss]

Yes! thank you again CK as you were the first one to help this old girl and were very nice about it. 

Aww very kind of you Mr. Phil, being called a he was understandable so the avatar will make it easier. 

Okay, the database is a sql so that should be good. I will check into creating that other database tomorrow as my brain needs a rest for now. I will learn this stuff so the forum is secure and everyone depending on me won't be let down. Thanks so much everyone. I'm sure I will be back for some more tips and I'll see that you all get a raise. Well, I would if I could.. 

[kat]

If you doubled what we get, from here, it would still be zero.

Believe it, or not, we all do this voluntarily.

[MrPhil]

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me

--- Billy Preston, "Nothing from Nothing"

[joeyrss]

I understand as I've been moderator for two groups of very sick members for over two years now every day except a three week vacation to visit my son in Seattle. We have grown to over 1000 members since then and one is a private FB group, hence the need for a forum as Google groups are not the best for gathering that many members. I spend 8 hours off and on helping them so I do get it and very much appreciate your time here. 

Mr. Phil, good song and I'm a music lover so that was something I would do as an answer..

[Chalky]

You're very welcome joeyrss, thank you for your kind comment 

[MrPhil]

If this forum will contain medical information of some sort, you may want to keep it private by making at least some portions only accessible to registered members. This can be done with SMF's permission system. You can keep the public (including search engine spiders) from reading the forum content. I don't recall how fine-grained it can go -- you might need a mod to show topic titles (to pique interest) but not show the individual posts. Likewise, show board titles and descriptions to everyone but keep the topics private. Within the registered membership, you can assign people to different groups with different permissions. If desired, with some custom coding, you could run the forum under SSL so no one could snoop on member communications. I'm assuming that this would not fall under HIPAA regulations, but still, members might appreciate some privacy.

[joeyrss]

CK, I already trust you with my forum life here and anyone with a a cool cat avatar is a friend of mine. Thank you too.

Mr. Phil, you are on it! I've already set it to allow guests to only browse the intro. board and no more as some of the suffering ones are truly maxed out with public comments and looks.

I will check into that mod you are talking about to keep the bots from reading forum content but I know our president wants good seo so would that limit that function? I have set up a child board to link to our website too as I saw no other way (at this point of my smf education anyway  ) to have the home page port to our site. I like the child board link, it works fine anyway.

I did set the registration up with three questions for spam protection and saw a mod that asks if you are human, is this another good one for preventing spam? I also was looking over the permissions for different groups and wondered how that works..like there is a group for parents of sick children only, can I keep others out of that group with this option?

Custom coding is something I would not mess with myself at this point but if we get someone on board down the road who knows css, then it would be a good option for sure.

Another question with the data backup as well as files on a weekly or nightly basis..do you delete the previous file first cause wouldn't you have tons of them otherwise? Or does the new one overwrite the previous one? Again, kind of new at this and thanks! My son facetimed me tonight from Seattle (works in Genius at Apple) and was proud of his mom for learning some new techy stuff thanks to all of you here.  I did not want to bother him with all these questions since he had umpteen projects to do by tomorrow.

[Chalky]

It sounds like you're really getting to grips with it! 

If you create a new membergroup for parents of sick children and add only those members to that membergroup (you can make it their secondary membergroup if you don't want others to see they belong to it) then in Admin > Boards > Modify Boards, click modify next to the board you want to be private to them and make sure their membergroup is checked while unchecking all other membergroups.  That way only they (and admins of course) will have access to that board 

I would suggest you keep several of your latest backups, simply because you don't necessarily realise you have a problem as soon as it happens and it can be useful to have the option to wind back a bit further than just the latest one.  I backup my database daily and my files weekly.  I manage them by saving each new backup in its own dated folder so they don't get overwritten by newer ones.  I do take it to the extreme and still have all my backups on my computer since my forum began in February last year but I'm not suggesting you do that    To keep a few is useful though 

[joeyrss]

Very good then, I need to date this first backup from last night as I like that idea of having more than one. I am one to have several products in stock at home just in case..ya never know when a store  might run out of ketchup or something.  And I don't think it's extreme really, not a hoarder but do like to be prepared for emergencies.

Hope this is not off topic for this category but I want to launch the forum soon to the members but how do I add the president as admin.? Do I give her a link to the forum and let her register etc. and then make her one or is there a way to invite her as I've not found one yet?

I'm kind of leery of adding too many mods for fear of messing something up like I did trying to add more smileys and taking a whole day to figure that out and fix it. I like the option of admins. and moderators leaving messages to each other though.

[Chalky]

Admin > Members > Registration > Register new member 

I think we've already gone off topic but don't worry about it, it's your thread, your prerogative 

[MrPhil]

One mistake people make is to only keep one very recent backup, such as their hosting service's nightly backup. It is quite possible to discover that your site was hacked a week ago and you only just realized it, so your only backup has the hack in it (i.e., is not a clean backup). You want to have an older backup or two so that you can recover from such unpleasantries (at the possible cost of losing very recent posts and attachments -- unfortunately there's no simple method to merge just the latest posts out of the newest backup with the clean older backup). Fortunately, most hacks involve inserting stuff into files and not affecting the database.

[joeyrss]

Thanks CK, found it and got that done.

Mr. Phil, thanks once again as your advice is worth a lot here.  Does this refer to database and files?

[MrPhil]

Both, really. For your average forum, the database is going to be more critical to back up, but the files should be backed up once in a while too, so you don't lose too many attachments and avatars. You might as well get in the habit of doing them both together.

[joeyrss]

Going to learn the file backup through filezilla so I can do that easily without any members in the forum yet.

"If you want to check the contents of your backup, the easiest way is to create a new database on your GD account, select import and upload your backup to it.  If all the tables are there and it looks like your real database then it's good  "

CK, I assume where it says "add" in my manage databases section at GD is where I create another one. Once I do that I can just upload the file to it to see my forum?

[Chalky]

Yes  . Well not to see your forum exactly, just the contents of your database backup 

[joeyrss]

Okay, thanks again.

[kat]

* K@ wonders if he can mark this as having been solved...

[joeyrss]

I dare to say yes! I will be back another time though..I'm sure. 

[kat]

You'll be entirely welcome, too!