the subs works fine as long as i keep the 'recurring subs' switch off. i installed smf per the smf install instructions. i've done smf installs many many times in the past, all worked fine without a hitch. as before, this latest version installation went perfectly, with no issues or errors. i dunno what the deal is with the 'recurring subs', where the problem lies, but i just don't have much more time to spend on this. it works as is (with the switch off) and that's all i need to get this thing rolling. thanx for all yer help, folks. much obliged.