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Were I given the keys to the kingdom...

Started by Arantor, September 22, 2013, 02:03:37 PM

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live627


Arantor

But I see the smiley and it works fine for me, both posted from quick reply and full reply...
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

live627

* live627 does evil testing >:D

M'kay, must just be me then.

emanuele

* emanuele thinks live simply forgot to add a space before the smiley. :P


Take a peek at what I'm doing! ;D




Hai bisogno di supporto in Italiano?

Aiutateci ad aiutarvi: spiegate bene il vostro problema: no, "non funziona" non è una spiegazione!!
1) Cosa fai,
2) cosa ti aspetti,
3) cosa ottieni.

live627

yeah yeah yeah, whatever. It was 3 in the morning. Big deal.

Nao 尚

What an interesting topic. Shows a side of Pete I knew would eventually resurface.
I'm glad I was pointed out to it.

::)
I will not make any deals with you. I've resigned. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered.

Aeva Media rocks your life.

bloc

We are all waiting in anticipation now, Nao. :D Will SMF 2.1/2 be..a Wedge derivative or something else? In any case, forgive and forget and all that I guess.

TwitchisMental

Well things just got interesting haha.. Either way I am glad to see things moving forward again :).

Arantor

SMF 2.1 will likely not see any substantial changes other than bug fixes - as we've seen in this topic, all the stuff that 2.1 was supposed to be, it is. So right now 2.1 is all about the bug fixes.

The future of SMF... it would be remiss of me as a developer to just ignore everything I learned while working on Wedge, however I don't see 3.0 being a Wedge *derivative* as such. Wedge got the benefit of everything I'd seen and learned up to that point, SMF 3.0 will benefit from everything I've learned up to *this* point.

And it's nice that you feel vindicated in your feelings.
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

onepiece

I have to say I'm skeptical about the developments in this topic but I might as well be the only one feeling that way. In any case, I hope it turns out the best for SMF.

Arantor

Quote from: onepiece on September 27, 2013, 06:56:59 AM
I have to say I'm skeptical about the developments in this topic but I might as well be the only one feeling that way. In any case, I hope it turns out the best for SMF.

May I ask why?
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

TwitchisMental

Quote from: Arantor on September 27, 2013, 06:43:33 AM
SMF 2.1 will likely not see any substantial changes other than bug fixes - as we've seen in this topic, all the stuff that 2.1 was supposed to be, it is. So right now 2.1 is all about the bug fixes.

The future of SMF... it would be remiss of me as a developer to just ignore everything I learned while working on Wedge, however I don't see 3.0 being a Wedge *derivative* as such. Wedge got the benefit of everything I'd seen and learned up to that point, SMF 3.0 will benefit from everything I've learned up to *this* point.

And it's nice that you feel vindicated in your feelings.


When I think bug fixing, I usually think public beta ;) ;)

SoLoGHoST

September 27, 2013, 10:00:21 PM #72 Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 10:12:36 PM by SoLoGHoST
While I agree with just about everything you've said, I have a different approach for what you've said on #14

Quote from: Arantor on September 22, 2013, 02:03:37 PM
14. I'd drop the facility whereby each post has its own subject, I'd move that all to the topic itself. Saves a ton of space, makes a surprising number of things faster.

Basically, I think titles for posts are cluttering as well, as they almost always repeat the title of the topic with RE: prepended to it.  BUT what if this was thought out to be handled differently?  What if titles of posts were actually handled as tags instead?  The database wouldn't need that much changing to it, just, basically, the code in the source files and templates would need changing.  But, what if you could than select a tag (perhaps a section of the forum somewhere all tags can be displayed) and than output all posts that relate to these tags?  Possibly even selecting multiple tags.  If you've seen stackoverflow.com, you can get an idea of what I'm talking about with Tags and how they are used.  I'm sure this is nothing new to anyone.  And than this concept can even be utilized within the search function as well.  This could even be expanded on moreso, like perhaps the Administrator can select who is able to create new tags, and so forth.  And those without permission to create tags can only assign posts to a current tag that already exists.

Also, I would like to see a near future version of SMF use the HTML 5 DOCTYPE since we are entering a new age of web development and HTML 5 has been around for a few years already.  This will also help for mobile support as well.  And in the upcoming years, as HTML 5 matures even moreso, with 5.1 being recommended in 2016, it should prove more stable and robust.

Just my 2 cents on this.

Arantor

QuoteThe database wouldn't need any real changing to it,

Yes it would. You really, really wouldn't do it that way, and you certainly wouldn't continue to store it uniquely every single post as a non indexed text string that cannot be efficiently used for *anything* else.

What you're talking about is topic data, not post data, the two are very, very different.

I'm very wary of adding a tag system to the core; it's only any use if it's used frequently and used consistently by most of the members. Almost all the forums I've seen doing this end up doing this either by fairly enthusiastic moderators or only a subset of users bother, making it less useful for everyone else.


However... if you want to write it up and submit it, please do feel free and we'll review it for inclusion, without any guarantees that it *will* be reviewed - but we're far more likely to consider something already written and tested rather than speculatively writing a new feature.
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

SoLoGHoST

Tag system would need to be on a per post basis in order to be useful.  If it were on a per-topic basis, it wouldn't be very useful would it?  The problem with posts in topics is that many times you have posts within a topic that relate to many different things, not just that topic.  This is where tags would be helpful.

Arantor

Other systems that do this do not agree with your assertion.
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

SoLoGHoST

Seriously?  Tags are used in tons of platforms in exactly the same way (if not very similar) as I am saying here. Wordpress has a module for them here:  http://en.support.wordpress.com/posts/tags/  Drupal also uses a tagging system.

In facebook, tags can be used on Photos to identify the people in them and than you can than sort all photos by tag(s).

And many other platforms use them for specifics, which is what I am talking about specifics.

Like I said, this is nothing new.

Kindred

but tags for WP are not done on comments - only on posts and pages (aka threads)

which is what Arantor said....
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.<br /><br />"Loki is not evil, although he is certainly not a force for good. Loki is... complicated."

SoLoGHoST

Who said anything about comments?  I am referring to posts/threads.

Arantor

The tags you refer to 1) are generally per topic, not per post, and 2) not in a general environment where user created content is the norm.

WordPress is largely irrelevant in this debate, as it happens, because a typical WordPress installation does not allow any and all members to create topics. WordPress is primarily one/few authors and many commentators; it is natural that the one/few authors will create a taxonomic structure that fits the site and adhere to it during content creation. The same is not true when you expect all forum users to adhere to such a structure.

As far as StackOverflow goes, the tags are very sparingly used; the number of questions I've seen just tagged jQuery or javascript doesn't really evidence your support of them being particularly useful for taxonomy. But again there they are per topic not per post.

Try looking at the other forum systems that implemented this and how they are used. The majority of forums that even have them available out of the box do not use them.

How is Facebook relevant? We're not a social network, nor do we have a lot of images, but even then, the tags are only useful when they're from a set pool (i.e. your friends list) and all too often I've been tagged in totally irrelevant pictures, or mis-tagged or not tagged when I should have been. As I said, the tag system is only truly relevant when *everyone* who can add content will tag and use the same structure and taxonomy for doing so. The *vast* majority of situations do NOT follow this.


However, if you're convinced it's appropriate, write it and submit to Github and we'll review it. Nothing is more encouraging than someone who has not only suggested an idea but put some work into implementing it and trying it out for real; after all, it's very easy to have ideas, but very hard to implement and refine them from real experience.
No good deed goes unpunished
All helpful urges should be circumvented

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