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[Arantor]

I think this is an opinion formed out of years of doing this stuff. Not a preconceived notion fed to me but one honed over years of actively being involved here.

Let me compare something: your stats indicate a total of 7 days' accumulated time spent on this forum. My stats, which is only *this* account (and this is not my first account), has accumulated 241 days of activity here. That amounts to more than one year of full time-level engagement on this forum, and I don't recall what my stats were on my first account. But that previous account made in excess of 30,000 posts, so it must have been at least 100 days' worth of accumulated time.

That is a serious amount of experience in this community from which to have formed opinions. I have encountered the same mentality in the communities I was a support member in prior to this one, too. Years and years of experience have formed these opinions, not external views pushed upon me.

I do not share what I can only describe as your hopeful but naive optimism for how communities and especially this community operate because I have way too much experience of how they *do* operate to believe in a higher level of operation.

[DenDen60]

I think this is an opinion formed out of years of doing this stuff. Not a preconceived notion fed to me but one honed over years of actively being involved here.

I am not saying that this notion was fed to you. I am only stating that there are researches out there that proves that you can change users behavior.

This knowledge plus my experience on other boards, ( I have been using discussions forums for more that 25 years, I do manage a 8 000 member community of practice and my research led me to use many different types of boards ) tels me that you can effectively change users behaviors.

For example, if you just moved the FAQ that is buried in the Online Manual, put it in RED in the top menu , you could have a direct impact on how many users visit the FAQ. You would then change their behaviors.

This is something that could take 5 minutes to do.

[Illori]

we have the FAQ's listed in a sticky in the 2 support boards. that has not helped us at all get users to read them before posting their questions. i dont think posting a link to the category anywhere else would help.

[Kindred]

Except, my experience of 20+ years with forums and 15+ years with websites in general tells me that you are overly optimistic and, overall, mistaken, Denis.

[DenDen60]

First, I also have 25 years of experience Kinred and most importantly scientific research support my position.

Find me one research that shows that improving the interface does not change the users behavior.

If the sticky does not do the trick, then it is because, for the behaviour change you want to accomplish, it is not the proper approach.

[Kindred]

lol...     typical psychologist.    If something doesn't work, it's not because it doesn't work, it's because you're doing it wrong.  That's one reason I got out of that field.

[Arantor]

So that's how many years of theoretical study and how many years of actually discovering that people do not conform to models of how people think?

[DenDen60]

lol...     typical psychologist.    If something doesn't work, it's not because it doesn't work, it's because you're doing it wrong.  That's one reason I got out of that field.

I am also outside that field. I specialize in best practice and and productivity. Hence my questions to you and anybody here:

Find me one research that shows that improving the interface does not change the users behavior.

[Arantor]

And if we provide any paper, you will find some excuse it does not meet your overly exacting criteria.

[DenDen60]

And if we provide any paper, you will find some excuse it does not meet your overly exacting criteria.

First find one. Then we will discuss.

[Arantor]

What would be the point of my burning time only for you to casually discard it? I have wasted enough time on your pontifications as it is.

[Kindred]

you seem to be suggesting that a written paper (regardless of the author) is more "authority" than the combined experience of (at least) two of the more prolific and experienced admins who you are already conversing with....

[Arantor]

This reminds me of my stepsister, who is also a psychologist. You should see some of the conversations I have witnessed with her on the subject of parenthood. She also cannot possibly be wrong, about anything, ever.

[DenDen60]

you seem to be suggesting that a written paper (regardless of the author) is more "authority" than the combined experience of (at least) two of the more prolific and experienced admins who you are already conversing with....

What I am suggesting is that if what you say is true, then it will reflect on the scientific research.

[DenDen60]

This reminds me of my stepsister, who is also a psychologist. You should see some of the conversations I have witnessed with her on the subject of parenthood. She also cannot possibly be wrong, about anything, ever.

Let's keep the subject on scientific knowledge. That is the best way to stay on the subject and find real evidence one way or another.

[Kindred]

NO... what you are suggesting is that our experience, because it is not documented in some paper, must be incorrect because it runs contrary to the paper that you have read.

[Arantor]

Kindred: you are wasting your time arguing this one, just as I am. This is, coincidentally, the same reason I don't talk to my stepsister because my experience is worthless because it's not in a textbook.

[DenDen60]

NO... what you are suggesting is that our experience, because it is not documented in some paper, must be incorrect because it runs contrary to the paper that you have read.

I am not saying that your experience is incorrect, I am saying that others have a different experience.

Are you open to look at others experience and see if it can be positive for SMF? 

[Arantor]

You know full well that you have just rephrased your own point and changed it into something completely different as a poor argument tactic.

Honestly, at this point I legitimately cannot tell if you are sincerely trying to improve things or are flat out trolling us.

[DenDen60]

Kindred: you are wasting your time arguing this one, just as I am. This is, coincidentally, the same reason I don't talk to my stepsister because my experience is worthless because it's not in a textbook.

Sometimes its good to look at what works elsewhere. That is how we learn.